Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXII

[DialUp]

You should be happy you didn’t have to deal with this shit.

Do you know how difficult it was trying to watch porn!? Or what happened to your connection when some called or picked up the phone?

Well this is awkward...

 

[Thirty One]

Hey, I'm not judging your life choices.

You're not?

 

[brakeyawself]

Where does the Mika Zibanejad situation rank in therms of hardest financial decisions this team has had to make since the lockout?

I wouldn't put it in the top 10. I mean, I didn't count up situations, but it just doesn't have that, "everything rides on this" feel to me. Honestly, we are going to have to move on from Zibby at some point, probably before this team is at its peek. So whether it's next year or in 2-3 years, I don't know if it's going to be that dire. I would preferably like to see him extended either 2 or 3 years. If he won't sign for less than like 8, then we say sorry and move on. I think it's pretty much that open and closed.

Now drafting Kakko and Laf, in hindsight, that will be where we can either point to the reason for our future success or the downfall of this decade of Ranger hockey. To say there is a tremendous amount riding on those two, would be a huge understatement.

 

[Savant]

The Couturier extension is more relevant to Mika than the Svechnikov extension.

 

[Kodiak]

So between 7 x 8.5 and 5 x 10 you'd take the latter?

Think I might as well. 33-34 tends to often be the point where the decline starts accelerating for a lot of players.

Anyone that has advocated for trading for Eichel thinks we can fit a 5 x 10 contract into our cap. I've been very critical of a potential Zibanejad extension, but I think I would be OK with giving him 5 x 10. Does he take it? That's another question.

 

[brakeyawself]

Anyone that has advocated for trading for Eichel thinks we can fit a 5 x 10 contract into our cap. I've been very critical of a potential Zibanejad extension, but I think I would be OK with giving him 5 x 10. Does he take it? That's another question.

5x10 at Zibs age, while less of a risk, is still risky. 5x8, I could deal with maybe. But even then, I can't see him taking 5x8 or 5x10. I think he's going to, rationally, want more than that. I am fine with 9-9.5 x 2 or 3 though.

And I am not ok with giving up anything for Eichel under the current circumstances. Even at 5x10. Which would be a great deal if he turned out to remain at his previous level of play. But it's that uncertainty that's the problem. 5x10 just means we can get stuck with a player who pales in comparison to his pre-surgery self, and we are stuck with him for 10 years at 5 mil per.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

7 years is too long.

Anything over 5 would be a mistake.

I’m with you but I think if we want to have him back we’re gonna either take a bath on the years or the money. I’d rather it be the years than the money. Now there I’m on record saying I wouldn’t pay him a cent over 8.5 so anything above that for me is a non-starter I don’t care what the years are.

 

[Lays]

I’m with you but I think if we want to have him back we’re gonna either take a bath on the years or the money. I’d rather it be the years than the money. Now there I’m on record saying I wouldn’t pay him a cent over 8.5 so anything above that for me is a non-starter I don’t care what the years are.

I would easily do something like 9x5

 

[RangerBoy]

8 x 8 for Zibanejad.

What is the alternative? Where is the alternative? The organization gave Chris Kreider $45.5M over 7 years. Zibanejad will be more productive than Kreider.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I would easily do something like 9x5

9x5 I could stomach but if takes 5 years he’s gonna want 10 and that I can’t.

 

[Ola]

The Flyers are such a weird team. Looking at their capfriendly page, I can't get a handle of what's good and what's bad.

They’ve had a top unit and PP that has been able to score consistently for so long. But from like 18/19, and largely due to Giroux’s demise, they have slowly but surely trended downwards.

Couturier is of course a strong player, but overall he is one of the more overrated players in the league in my book.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Oh no another person we had 0 chance in getting resigns!

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Zib isn't taking a 5 year deal at his age....there's just no way. You can try and chip away at the dollars but dont expect anything less than 7 years, he'd be crazy not to get a long term deal because this could be his last deal.

 

[brakeyawself]

8 x 8 for Zibanejad.

What is the alternative? Where is the alternative? The organization gave Chris Kreider $45.5M over 7 years. Zibanejad will be more productive than Kreider.

Heh, The goal is to not continuously make the same mistake. Trouba and Kreider are mistakes that we shouldn't repeat.

The alternative is signing him short term, 2-4 years, and using that time to find, acquire or groom a new top 6 center. It's completely doable. What WOULD hurt us in that though is singing Zibs to too long a contract. AM becomes a UFA after next 2 seasons I think, Lindholm and Draisatl after next 3 seasons. Having Zibby come off the cap either of those years could mean, theoretically, signing one of those 3. And there are other centers that will be FA at some point or another also. Obviously it depends on these players not extending with their current teams. But that's not something we do have control over. And there is always the possibility of a trade. We have an excess of young defenders right now, valuable young defenders that presumably, other teams would want. There are also drafts every single year.

So I don't think this is something that we so direly need to figure out in the next 8-10 months. We can let Zibby go and re-sign Strome to a short term contract also while we search for a center. There's plenty of different options, tying ourselves to any one option right now seems pointless. But signing Zibby for too much for too long, absolutely could hold us back from doing so down the line. Which is why I am cool with 9-9.5 for 2-seasons max. Rather than even 5x10.

 

[cheech70]

Mika is at his peak and will start his slide down in 2 years...be careful

 

[brakeyawself]

Zib isn't taking a 5 year deal at his age....there's just no way. You can try and chip away at the dollars but dont expect anything less than 7 years, he'd be crazy not to get a long term deal because this could be his last deal.

He's in his late 20s. 28. If he signed for 2 seasons, he could easily get another big contract still. Everyone's predicting or trying to predict how his career trajectory will go and what he will want. We can only guess at these things.

I mean, you might be right, he might not settle for anything less than 5. But has this been said by him or his agent? What information or we basing this "Zibby wouldn't take anything less than 5" idea on? Just his age? There are so many factors that could alter that. The only way we are going to know what Zibby would settle for is when Zibby states what he'd settle for, either through public statement or negotiation with the team.

 

[Kodiak]

5x10 at Zibs age, while less of a risk, is still risky. 5x8, I could deal with maybe. But even then, I can't see him taking 5x8 or 5x10. I think he's going to, rationally, want more than that. I am fine with 9-9.5 x 2 or 3 though.

And I am not ok with giving up anything for Eichel under the current circumstances. Even at 5x10. Which would be a great deal if he turned out to remain at his previous level of play. But it's that uncertainty that's the problem. 5x10 just means we can get stuck with a player who pales in comparison to his pre-surgery self, and we are stuck with him for 10 years at 5 mil per.

I'm not starting up the Eichel debate again. I'm just pointing out that many were willing to allocate 5 x 10 to the 1C position. Eichel's cap hit has been discussed in terms of whether he would be worth his cap hit, and not whether we can afford his cap hit.

Zibanejad is an elite offensive center and is going to be paid like one for the next 3-5 years at least. After that, it becomes a matter of whether you would tack on additional years to bring the overall cap hit down, or bite the bullet on the cap hit. If Zibanejad is our guy at 1C moving forward, I would rather bite the bullet and give him 5 x 10 now. I don't think saving 1.5m per year in the short term is going to be as helpful as getting Zibanejad's cap hit off the books 6 years from now as some players will be coming off of bridge deals. And you would still have the option of resigning him at the end of that contract on a shorter term deal with a cap hit comparable to his production.

But this is Zibanejad's big contract. He's not going to have any more earning power than he will for this contract and he may want to maximize that. So 5 years may be a non-starter from his side.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Mika is at his peak and will start his slide down in 2 years...be careful

As RB said, whats the alternative?

You have to make a decision next summer. Try to sign him for less years? He and his agent wont agree to those terms. Let him walk? Then what? Whos your #1?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Heh, The goal is to not continuously make the same mistake. Trouba and Kreider are mistakes that we shouldn't repeat.

The alternative is signing him short term, 2-4 years, and using that time to find, acquire or groom a new top 6 center. It's completely doable. What WOULD hurt us in that though is singing Zibs to too long a contract. AM becomes a UFA after next 2 seasons I think, Lindholm and Draisatl after next 3 seasons. Having Zibby come off the cap either of those years could mean, theoretically, signing one of those 3. And there are other centers that will be FA at some point or another also. Obviously it depends on these players not extending with their current teams. But that's not something we do have control over. And there is always the possibility of a trade. We have an excess of young defenders right now, valuable young defenders that presumably, other teams would want. There are also drafts every single year.

So I don't think this is something that we so direly need to figure out in the next 8-10 months. We can let Zibby go and re-sign Strome to a short term contract also while we search for a center. There's plenty of different options, tying ourselves to any one option right now seems pointless. But signing Zibby for too much for too long, absolutely could hold us back from doing so down the line. Which is why I am cool with 9-9.5 for 2-seasons max. Rather than even 5x10.

Why would Zibanejad even entertain a 4-5 year deal, let alone a 2 year deal? How about presenting an alternative that is actually somewhat grounded in reality?

 

[brakeyawself]

I'm not starting up the Eichel debate again. I'm just pointing out that many were willing to allocate 5 x 10 to the 1C position. Eichel's cap hit has been discussed in terms of whether he would be worth his cap hit, and not whether we can afford his cap hit.

Zibanejad is an elite offensive center and is going to be paid like one for the next 3-5 years at least. After that, it becomes a matter of whether you would tack on additional years to bring the overall cap hit down, or bite the bullet on the cap hit. If Zibanejad is our guy at 1C moving forward, I would rather bite the bullet and give him 5 x 10 now. I don't think saving 1.5m per year in the short term is going to be as helpful as getting Zibanejad's cap hit off the books 6 years from now as some players will be coming off of bridge deals. And you would still have the option of resigning him at the end of that contract on a shorter term deal with a cap hit comparable to his production.

But this is Zibanejad's big contract. He's not going to have any more earning power than he will for this contract and he may want to maximize that. So 5 years may be a non-starter from his side.

The way I see it, if he demands more than 5, at whatever price, we let him walk. Preferably I would even cap that at 4, but could probably deal with 5. I just think you are better off paying more for a shorter term and having ALL the money come off the cap sooner in this situation. A lot of this will depend on how Gallant feels about him and his future with the team after this season. And of course a lot will depend on how he performs for the season. Part of my issue is I am not sold that he's the right center to take us forward. It's not that he's a bad player or anything. But the specific skill set that he brings to the table, I don't know if it's what we really need. And a lot of that unfortunately depends on how guys like Laf, Kakko, Kravtsov and Chytil progress, which we have no way of knowing with any certainty at the moment.

And while I see the appeal of players like Zibanijad, my ideal 1C for this team looks a lot more like Jonathan Toews. Maybe not even quite as good as Toews, but someone who brings that complete, 200ft game to the table with a high desire and drive to win and leadership skills to boot. Now, there are guys out there like PLD, who, I wouldn't put in the same class as Toews, and might not have some of the intangibles, but at least plays a relatively complete game. All though I think Elias Lindholm would be a better fit and he can be a UFA in 3 seasons.

But really, I think our best move is make a play for Austin Matthews after the next two seasons. Hope to hell he doesn't re-sign with the Leafs and go all in on him when/if he's available. And if that fails, then both PLD and Lindholm are in the same situation the year after. And these are just the guys I can think of right now. I am sure there will be other options. We could theoretically get away with signing an older guy for 2-3 seasons, buying us more time to search for a more permanent replacement. I don't know, a guy like Kopitar or Bergeron maybe. Not that I know what their contracts look like specifically, just using them as examples of older players who we could use as a bridge theoretically to buy us more time and still get performance. Wouldn't even mind like Jaime Benn in that. But anyway, this is something that could be tackled from multiple angles, by multiple methods. I don't like the idea of locking us into "it's this or nothing" unless we are talking about guys on the Matthews, McDavid level.

 

[brakeyawself]

Why would Zibanejad even entertain a 4-5 year deal, let alone a 2 year deal? How about presenting an alternative that is actually somewhat grounded in reality?

I think I explained this. Neither you nor I have any idea what Zibanijad actually wants or thinks. You are making assumptions. And while those assumptions may make sense to you and other people, and may even be what most people would think, we have absolutely no clue right now what is actually going on in his mind or what he wants. So stop pretending you do. And like I said numerous times, if he wants too long a contract, we let him walk and look elsewhere for a temporary fit.

 

[Fitzy]

Why would Zibanejad even entertain a 4-5 year deal, let alone a 2 year deal? How about presenting an alternative that is actually somewhat grounded in reality?

If the total $$$ in the 5 year deal is close to the 7-8 year deal he'd consider it.

Question for the Rangers is, is it better to pay out the wazoo to keep the contract term down, or should they simply just plan on likely buying out the last 2 years of his contract? (Assuming we are still competitive at that point)

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I'm not starting up the Eichel debate again. I'm just pointing out that many were willing to allocate 5 x 10 to the 1C position. Eichel's cap hit has been discussed in terms of whether he would be worth his cap hit, and not whether we can afford his cap hit.

Zibanejad is an elite offensive center and is going to be paid like one for the next 3-5 years at least. After that, it becomes a matter of whether you would tack on additional years to bring the overall cap hit down, or bite the bullet on the cap hit. If Zibanejad is our guy at 1C moving forward, I would rather bite the bullet and give him 5 x 10 now. I don't think saving 1.5m per year in the short term is going to be as helpful as getting Zibanejad's cap hit off the books 6 years from now as some players will be coming off of bridge deals. And you would still have the option of resigning him at the end of that contract on a shorter term deal with a cap hit comparable to his production.

But this is Zibanejad's big contract. He's not going to have any more earning power than he will for this contract and he may want to maximize that. So 5 years may be a non-starter from his side.

You're not going to get Zibanejad for much less than Eichel's AAV. And you're getting Eichel for the rest of his 20's, while Zbad's majority years would be in his 30's.

There is an alternative, but it doesnt involve the fantasyland stuff of Zibanejad taking anything less than 7 years. It involves acquiring Eichel and selling Zbad at the deadline to replenish the assets. If Eichel's neck condition is sorted out, it may be the best alternative.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think I explained this. Neither you nor I have any idea what Zibanijad actually wants or thinks. You are making assumptions. And while those assumptions may make sense to you and other people, and may even be what most people would think, we have absolutely no clue right now what is actually going on in his mind or what he wants. So stop pretending you do. And like I said numerous times, if he wants too long a contract, we let him walk and look elsewhere for a temporary fit.

You're in fantasyland if you think hes not going to pursue the most conceivable guaranteed years. If he was willing to entertain 5 years, he'd be signed already. Full stop.

 

[brakeyawself]

Here, a list of possible 2022 Free Agents......... 2022 NHL Free Agents Tracker

We don't know right now what the definitive options will be. But there will be options if we let Zibby walk.