Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXII

[Ghost of jas]

Watch what the rangers do, not what everyone else says.

there have been no contract negotiations. If the rangers really wanted to keep the player, they would have made the attempt already.

They’re for sure in wait and see mode, but Their actions don’t follow those of a team that is dead set on keeping a guy.

just hope that they don’t do something stupid like self rent and then walk away.

Dreger keeps saying there will be negotiations. That may just the Rangers attempting to maintain leverage. But, it’s out there. That being said, I think it’s more than likely he gets traded.

 

[Edge]

Retention on expiring contracts has no real impact on trade value IMO. It just serves to get the contract to fit within the team's cap.

It's a different story when a contract has term left, like Yandle.

Value, not a tremendous amount.

It's primarily used to open up more windows of opportunity, which in turn can bring back value the Rangers prefer.

 

[Off Sides]

I don't think teams who are renting are desperate enough to trade anything that good. They will likely keep their favorite prospects, and they will certainly keep anything they feel will help them in the playoffs.

So what's left? Picks and B level prospects.

If the Rangers do not have any confidence they can parley their own assets and added assets into something that can eventually win the Cup without knowing the specifics of it, I'm not so sure they should have ever tried to rebuild in the first place.

 

[True Blue]

What's the term and number that both parties can live with?

6@$6.5? He may well not be a top 6 player for the last two years of that, but he would still be a solid net front presence on the PP.

Were it 5 years at that price, I would say get it done now.

 

[Raspewtin]

a potential another Lemieux type. good on the forcheck, scrappy, in your face type of game. someone who can draw penalties by his style. good types to have. Bruins did not want to give him up in the Nash trade for a reason.

if this is the best we can do for Kreider then fine but I strongly doubt that.

 

[GAGLine]

If any deal w/ Colorado materialized, I'd very much hope Smith @50% is included.

This isn't a "take our trash" type of trade, Smith would be very helpful veteran to have as a 7/8 defense option on a deep playoff run (where teams find themselves dressing almost anyone in the later rounds). @50% retention, real salary of 1.675M next year is very much a reasonable figure as insurance for Sakic/COL.

If they want him and his inclusion increases the overall value coming back to us? Sure, absolutely. I'm not convinced that's actually the case, though, and we aren't desperate to move him. I'm not including him in any deal if it affects the return in a negative way. I'm happy to give him away for nothing, but not if it's going to cost us anything, no matter how small.

 

[NYR Viper]

what is the appeal of Trent Frederic besides that video of him KO'ing an AHL goon?

He's a 21 year old power forward who has a decent offensive game. He probably projects as a 30-35 point power forward who will have around 100PIM's in a season and can play center or wing.

He's not a world-beater or a top-line guy but as an ingredient on a winning team I think he would be useful. It's the same with Lemieux who I think probably tops out around 35 points and 100-150 PIM's.

 

[True Blue]

Would Kreider & Georgiev land Newhook?

I think that when it comes to the 'Lanche, both Newhook & Byram are off the table.

 

[Ghost of jas]

We’re talking as many as seven teams reportedly interested in Kreider. He’s the best forward available with Hall off the market. The Rangers have the leverage.

 

[Edge]

I think we really need to get the Newhook-level prospects out of our mind when looking at potential Kreider returns.

Kreider is the best rental on the market, but he's still a rental.

And I think in the last few weeks we've gotten into a bit of a group-think mentality about shitting on late first round picks.

Nils Lundkvist is a late first round pick. Miller is a late first round pick. Chytil is a late first round pick. All taken in either 2017 or 2018, with picks 28, 22 and 21.

The guy people want to trade for, Alex Newhook was the 18th pick, which was in play with the Winnipeg pick.

The guy we're talking about trading was taken 19th overall (as was one of our young RD looking at big pay day this summer).

A late first in the 2020 draft as a component in a trade is not a bad asset for a guy who is only guaranteed to play for his team three months, or maybe only 6 weeks.

 

[Edge]

We’re talking as many as seven teams reportedly interested in Kreider. He’s the best forward available with Hall off the market. The Rangers have the leverage.

I would caution all of us about using the word leverage too liberally. It's popping up with greater frequency as a buzz word on this thread, and I think when people hear that word ait sets the expectation that we're going to bend another team over.

I still think we're in Hayes Territory, maybe Nash territory if the market heats up.

 

[True Blue]

He's a 21 year old power forward who has a decent offensive game. He probably projects as a 30-35 point power forward who will have around 100PIM's in a season and can play center or wing.

He is the type of player that is needed on a team like this to round out the overall lineup. What he brings compliments the high-end skill that is present.

Look at the starting lineup of Colorado. A great combination of size, skill, speed, grit and toughness.

 

[NYR Viper]

He is the type of player that is needed on a team like this to round out the overall lineup. What he brings compliments the high-end skill that is present.

Look at the starting lineup of Colorado. A great combination of size, skill, speed, grit and toughness.

Yeah, I think that once we start looking around the league at varying B-level prospects, I'd probably lean more towards finding a couple of attributes that the system overall seems to lack in lieu of swinging for the fences on a skill guy who may not ever find a role if he can't score. The organization lacks guys in the Lemieux/Frederic mold. The league in general lacks guys like this as speed has taken over, it's been more and more difficult to find guys who can contribute and play that PIA, grinding style while contributing offensively.

 

[Leetch3]

We’re talking as many as seven teams reportedly interested in Kreider. He’s the best forward available with Hall off the market. The Rangers have the leverage.

how many of those teams are known?

 

[True Blue]

The league in general lacks guys like this as speed has taken over, it's been more and more difficult to find guys who can contribute and play that PIA, grinding style while contributing offensively.

Frankly, that is what makes Lemieux so intriguing. He is out of sight and out of mind now, but he was getting his offensive game going and has excellent hands. If he can be come a 20 goal/40 point second line player, I think that is a game changer for this team.

 

[Ghost of jas]

how many of those teams are known?

Colorado, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Boston, Toronto and Montreal have all been mentioned. Carolina has been a speculative team.

 

[The New Russian Five]

That is a lot of proven talent for a lottery ticket.

While I don't think we get Newhook for Kreider (unless it was a sign and trade), adding in a potential starting goaltender makes it lopsided in Colorado's favor.

Newhook + Jost+ 1st for Kreider + Georgiev?

 

[Kovalev27]

I like Lemieux I do but he’s going to be 24 soon and hardly is showing he can be a 20 goal 40 pt guy.

once he scored 9 goals in 44 games with a ridiculous shooting percentage.

he’s more Brandon Prust to me who while valuable in his prime was never a guy you wanted in your top 9 let alone top 6.

I think Howden has more upside as a left winger than Lemieux does frankly.

So I’m really just unimpressed by some of these guys like Frederic. I think we’ve got that guy in Lemieux already. I think they fill the same role

 

[Ghost of jas]

I would caution all of us about using the word leverage too liberally. It's popping up with greater frequency as a buzz word on this thread, and I think when people hear that word ait sets the expectation that we're going to bend another team over.

I still think we're in Hayes Territory, maybe Nash territory if the market heats up.

Since most of us do not know what the teams interested in Kreider are willing to offer, nor whom the Rangers have necessarily targeted, I will usually revert to prior trades. To me, if the competition for Kreider is what has been described, I think a package for more than what Hayes returned is a reasonable expectation. If the Rangers have a prospect they are particularly targeting, then the package could be adjusted.

 

[True Blue]

Newhook + Jost+ 1st for Kreider + Georgiev?

You really need to forget about Newhook.

 

[Leetch3]

Colorado, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Boston, Toronto and Montreal have all been mentioned. Carolina has been a speculative team.

there have been rumors that he won't go to a Canadian team but who knows...definitely don't want to see him in pittsburgh...clearly carolina has the most to offer from those teams. blues might be second

 

[Vitto79]

Not sure if you want a beer (Heineken), a defenseman (Heiskanen) or a forward (Heinen)

I will take Heiskenen please
I will just say Danton next time , I tend to not edit

 

[TheBPA]

I could see Dallas being a fit for Kreider, but they'd have to make the money work. Something like Kreider at 50% for Dallas's 1st and Dellandrea?

 

[NYR Viper]

I like Lemieux I do but he’s going to be 24 soon and hardly is showing he can be a 20 goal 40 pt guy.

once he scored 9 goals in 44 games with a ridiculous shooting percentage.

he’s more Brandon Prust to me who while valuable in his prime was never a guy you wanted in your top 9 let alone top 6.

I think Howden has more upside as a left winger than Lemieux does frankly.

So I’m really just unimpressed by some of these guys like Frederic. I think we’ve got that guy in Lemieux already. I think they fill the same role

I'll just say this. As @Edge pointed out, the moment the Rangers acquired Lemieux they were getting calls on him. Frederic would be similar.

 

[mas0764]

Do people honestly think the Rangers are getting Newhook for 2 months of Kreider?

Screw the Avs. Newhook or take a hike.

I'll be charitable and drop my demand for a prospect and a first to a prospect and a second if they make it Newhook, but it's got to be him.

Or I'll deal Kreider to their main competitor.