Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXII

[The New Russian Five]

There’s no irony here. I’ve repeatedly referred to the CORE talent. I’ve listed multiple guys I feel can be moved out that don’t hurt this team near or long term by being replaced internally while opening additional cap space. As it is we only have 2 large contracts on the books past next year. A ton of money in buyout dollars coming off an ever increasing cap that will only get bigger with the next tv deal. And timing entry level deals with expiring ones.

And 3 years from now you’ll be telling me to trade Mika because he’s closing in on 30 and you worry about when his decline will start.

Yeah trade Buch right? So you think Kakko will be ready next year to be our top RW? Kravtsov is going to fit nicely into the 2nd line rw position right? At least on the left side the rangers have Panarin who can eat up minutes for now, but if you trade Buchnevich before the rangers even have a chance to see how Kakko and Kravtsov develop you are spelling disaster on the right side.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

It's not a strategy, because I don't see that as the final product.

And Tuch isn't a top six player?

Tuch has not been good this yer. I get the size and skating comparisons but I'm far from sold he's a definite top 6 player. And I would hope the Rangers have a strategy in place because, like someone here said earlier, they can miss the playoffs this season but that's not gonna fly next year.

 

[Kovalev27]

Yeah trade Buch right? So you think Kakko will be ready next year to be our top RW? Kravtsov is going to fit nicely into the 2nd line rw position right? At least on the left side the rangers have Panarin who can eat up minutes for now, but if you trade Buchnevich before the rangers even have a chance to see how Kakko and Kravtsov develop you are spelling disaster on the right side.

I have zero concerns with moving Buchnevich out and replacing him with Kakko. That’s a risk im totally comfortable taking next year . Most nights Buchnevich looks like the sulking 18 year old that needs to get stronger and quicker. I much rather put my trust in Kakko and Kravtsov and add them to Mika/Kreider Chytil/Panarin

 

[NYR Viper]

And you think Toronto is going to give him away? You wanna give up Kravstov or a top defensive prospect and picks and more picks and pay him $7.5 million a year on top of that? Have fun with that?

Sure, I'd give up Kravtsov + for Nylander. Why would Nylander not be worth it but Kreider would be? One is 23, the other is 28, which one is more likely to have the better next 5-6 years?

 

[RGY]

The financial flexibility + assets are better than a 29 year old Kreider signed for 7 years.

I mean thats TBD. There is no guarantee with the late 1st rounder that could ultimately be a 2nd rounder. Or a guy like Frederic who may never be more than a 3rd liner at best. And so on. The financial flexibility; sure to re-sign your own but your still missing Kreider and his impact. Flexibility to sign someone or add via trade. How do we know the right player or player(s) come along AND fit the needs of this team. How do we know they will be able to handle NY?

But you certainly know what you have with Kreider and all that he brings. That you know. So to say those are better, I don’t know. I would have to disagree. It may take awhile to find out if any of those “benefits” come to fruition, if ever.

 

[mas0764]

I don't know, because I have to see what else is done.

Moving Kreider is not a vacuum move.

It's not Kreider vs. nobody.

Internally, you're top six could include Panarin, Zibanejad and combinations of Strome, Chytil, Kakko, and Kravtsov.

Frankly, based on discussions, it could include someone like Nylander. It could include Tuch.

Consider also that it's not really that unfeasible, given our asset pool, that we could acquire a much better player than Kreider to fill that top 6 void. If you assume Panarin, Zibanejad, Kakko, Kravtsov, and Chytil have permanent or soon to be permanent spots in that top 6, to say nothing of Strome, what's to stop us from sending out Kreider to return a first and prospect package in return, and then sending out our own first, the Kreider first, and another of our higher-end defenseman prospects, and moving up in the first to get someone like Stutzle?

I mean, maybe the question is "What about next year?" but I'd submit the answer to that is: Who cares? We would have a wonderful looking young top 6 that is gonna score and score and score in buckets in the future. Not to mention our defense is full of scoring puckmoving types in DeAngelo, Fox, even Miller and Lundkvist.

 

[NYR Viper]

I have zero concerns with moving Buchnevich out and replacing him with Kakko. That’s a risk im totally comfortable taking next year . Most nights Buchnevich looks like the sulking 18 year old that needs to get stronger and quicker. I much rather put my trust in Kakko and Kravtsov and add them to Mika/Kreider Chytil/Panarin

Buch, to me, is a major piece, along with Skjei, that should be used to go out and find another key core piece ala Trouba. Whether that's Nylander or Nurse or Tuch or someone we haven't discussed.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The question cant be answered without knowing what he is willing to sign for. I'd keep him, 4 years 20-24 mill but beyond that there is no other option but trade him.

 

[NYR Viper]

I mean thats TBD. There is no guarantee with the late 1st rounder that could ultimately be a 2nd rounder. Or a guy like Frederic who may never be more than a 3rd liner at best. And so on. The financial flexibility; sure to re-sign your own but your still missing Kreider and his impact. Flexibility to sign someone or add via trade. How do we know the right player or player(s) come along AND fit the needs of this team. How do we know they will be able to handle NY?

But you certainly know what you have with Kreider and all that he brings. That you know. So to say those are better, I don’t know. I would have to disagree. It may take awhile to find out if any of those “benefits” come to fruition, if ever.

You know what you have with Kreider RIGHT NOW. The same thing you're doing in your first paragraph can be done to Kreider for his next 7 years after this one

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Sure, I'd give up Kravtsov + for Nylander. Why would Nylander not be worth it but Kreider would be? One is 23, the other is 28, which one is more likely to have the better next 5-6 years?

Because it's not Kravtsov plus, it's Kravtsov + + + draft picks. I'd rather have Kreider + Kravtsov + drafts picks.

 

[NYRangers0723]

Because it's not Kravtsov plus, it's Kravtsov + + + draft picks. I'd rather have Kreider + Kravtsov + drafts picks

.

This

 

[n8]

Why would Kreider ever accept that? He's already going to take a huge discount tax-wise just to play in NYC. Players almost never take discounts like that, especially when we're talking about middling numbers (the difference between 11 and 12 million is far different than that of 6 versus 7).

Moreover, the question isn't what Kreider will cost in $, we largely know that. The question is WHO Kreider will cost us down the line. Who won't we be able to re-sign? Who will we have to move to fit him. If he signs any deal longer than 4 years, almost our entire roster will be due a raise before then.

Are you willing to part with one or several of the following? ADA, Fox, Kaako, Kravtsov, Shesterkin/Georgiev, Chytil, etc? Because there's no way we can have Trouba, Panarin and Kreider on the cap & pay those guys what they will eventually command.

I think we should be looking to move Trouba ASAP and then that might open up some other doors. But as of now, that seems unlikely.

I don't think Kreider takes 5 years @ $6M AAV but I still think that is a good deal for what he brings and most of us would accept such a signing. I'm not 100% about the timing but I think it would expire when players like Kakko, Kravtsov, and Shesterkin would be getting their final RFA extensions where we possibly are eating up UFA years. 3 yr. ELC, 2-4 years (depending on how young they enter the league) in RFA land, no?

I agree with moving Trouba but I don't think that will happen. But I also didn't think we'd ever trade Scott Gomez's contract so prove me wrong GMJG.

In regards to who Kreider will cost us? I guess we should just pull out the crystal ball. No one knows. And if we can't resign someone, don't you think we'll trade them? Who will we get? Someone worse? Someone better? I don't think framing the conversation in that sort of speculation is productive. We should probably analyze our cap, resign windows, bridge windows, raise projections, etc to figure out the financial roadmap of the Rangers. I really hope they have people at the club who do that for a living. It seems like they don't with some of their signings. I think a 5 year contract for Kreider can fit into that road map which is why a 6 or 7 year contract should not be giving at all since I don't think that fits into the roadmap and makes a lot of those situations you pointed out much much much more likely to happen.

 

[The New Russian Five]

And you think Toronto is going to give him away? You wanna give up Kravstov or a top defensive prospect and picks and more picks and pay him $7.5 million a year on top of that? Have fun with that?

Actually his cap hit is 7million, which pretty much lines up with close to how much Kreider will get on his deal. And I think the deal you are suggesting is a bit overloaded for a team that will have no choice but to move him. Also, I wouldn't trade Kravtsov. That is trading from an area of need. I would trade one of our defensive prospects and say Georgiev + a pick for him. Dealing from a position of strength to fill a hole. Also, don't forget that the assets the rangers get for Kreider can also be used as part of such a package, so really the swap for Kreider and Nylander nearly evens out in terms of the value of the assets being moved.

 

[NYR Viper]

That would be sweet if he asked to be traded and only to the Rangers. I mean I guess it happens, it pretty much did with Nash.

Yet I was more thinking about something more similar to the Trouba deal where he wanted out, he was going to play out his RFA years and leave, so the team decided to make a deal before the player could hit UFA.

I'm not sure it's all that far fetched IF he asked out. There aren't that many teams out there that could put together the type of package they would ask for while not depleting their system AND somewhere he would want to play. Sure, Ottawa maybe could send a nice package over but would he be happy there? Would Ottawa risk another Karlsson situation with a superstar?

 

[NYR Viper]

Because it's not Kravtsov plus, it's Kravtsov + + + draft picks. I'd rather have Kreider + Kravtsov + drafts picks.

Ok that's your perogative. I disagree and I don't think it would be +++, probably someone like Skjei.

So Skjei + Kravtsov for Nylander + ____
Kreider at the deadline for 1st + _____

Assuming Kreider's contract would be $7m per season, that gives Gorton about $6m in additional money to play with on top of Nylander who is a younger, more dynamic player, a 1st and 2-3 more pieces which could be used to acquire someone else or develop within the system to help keep costs low moving forward.

 

[The New Russian Five]

You know what you have with Kreider RIGHT NOW. The same thing you're doing in your first paragraph can be done to Kreider for his next 7 years after this one

I know what I have with Kreider for the next year or 2. I don't know what I have in Kreider in say 3-4 years+. Again 30s is an unpredictable time in an NHL players career. Some players play great until their mid 30s, some start hitting a wall very quickly. This is the issue.

 

[n8]

Igor is going to go back to Russia. It's a dumb move.

don't say dumb shit. Igor is not going back to Russia. He can't now. He said he'd stay and we even gave him games in the NHL to meet that return clause anyways. If he goes down, you know they will solve the issue by the TDL.

 

[RGY]

You know what you have with Kreider RIGHT NOW. The same thing you're doing in your first paragraph can be done to Kreider for his next 7 years after this one

Cmon Viper, 7 years?? Let’s be a little more realistic than that.

If you really believe Kreider wont be just as effective over the next 3-4 years then I dont know what to tell you. Thats your opinion and your right.

And I for one have said I would not be okay with a 7 year deal. 6 would make me cringe but i could live. I agree with @Kovalev27 that you could buy him out for that last year, WORST CASE scenario. Even 2 years early if need be.

But we have $26 million coming off the books in 2 years. You could move Buch and Skjei’s salaries. New TV deal. Cap increases.

 

[NYRangers0723]

I know what I have with Kreider for the next year or 2. I don't know what I have in Kreider in say 3-4 years+. Again 30s is an unpredictable time in an NHL players career. Some players play great until their mid 30s, some start hitting a wall very quickly. This is the issue.

Like I Mentioned before Kreider keeps himself in as good of shape as anyone I’ve seen. I don’t think that’s an issue. I also think he would take a little less to stay here. I’m not saying we HAVE to sign him at whatever costs but it’s a really hard pill to swallow right now especially if he wants to stay here even for less

 

[The New Russian Five]

Because it's not Kravtsov plus, it's Kravtsov + + + draft picks. I'd rather have Kreider + Kravtsov + drafts picks.

Talk about overvaluing a players that will HAVE to get traded. No team is going to offer them that type of package. It's going to be a prospect + a cheaper NHL player + maybe a pick. These are all things that the rangers have enough assets of to give away.

 

[NYRangers0723]

Talk about overvaluing a players that will HAVE to get traded. No team is going to offer them that type of package. It's going to be a prospect + a cheaper NHL player + maybe a pick. These are all things that the rangers have enough assets of to give away.

not really

 

[n8]

Ok that's your perogative. I disagree and I don't think it would be +++, probably someone like Skjei.

So Skjei + Kravtsov for Nylander + ____
Kreider at the deadline for 1st + _____

Assuming Kreider's contract would be $7m per season, that gives Gorton about $6m in additional money to play with on top of Nylander who is a younger, more dynamic player, a 1st and 2-3 more pieces which could be used to acquire someone else or develop within the system to help keep costs low moving forward.

LOL. you causally throw in Skjei like hes' a piece of fruit. That add from Toronto better be ridiculously good. I'm not trading Skjei and Kravtsov for Nylander and scraps. He's no where near that good.

 

[Alluckks]

Stockpiling assets to be prepared when a top young player becomes available is exactly where we should be right now, and Kreider adds to that. It is the reason why we were able to up and pull the trigger on trading for Trouba. It would put us in line to grab a top player that becomes available for whatever reason in the next year or two, and those guys do pop up. Right now we are cementing the rebuild.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Talk about overvaluing a players that will HAVE to get traded. No team is going to offer them that type of package. It's going to be a prospect + a cheaper NHL player + maybe a pick. These are all things that the rangers have enough assets of to give away.

First off, why is Toronto moving a cost controlled, young player? Secondly, you think you're getting Nylander for the same package you got for a 32 year old, soon to be UFA, concussed, Rick Nash for? Stop it, please.

 

[The New Russian Five]

Like I Mentioned before Jreider keeps himself in as good of shape as anyone I’ve seen. I don’t think that’s an issue. I also think he would take a little less to stay here. I’m not saying we HAVE to sign him at whatever costs but it’s a really hard pill to swallow right now especially if he wants to stay here even for less

Where has it been said that he is willing to stay for less? Just because Shattenkirk and Panarin did it doesn't mean he will. Team discounted deals are rare. This is the chance for a pay day for players.

Just because Kreider keeps himself in incredible shape doesn't mean he ages differently. If father time starts to hit then not much you can do. Usually speed is the first thing that starts to go when you get older and that is Kreider's number one attribute. If he loses his speed, then he's mediocre at best.