Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXII

[Kovalev27]

so no concerns that the chemistry between panarin/strome might be special and no guarantee panarin will have the same chemistry with another player? if pushed, i'd lean to also say that panarin is simply so good that it doesn't matter who his linemates are. but at the same time wouldn't hate knowing that he fits with chytil and/or kakko before moving on from strome.

I mean sure Strome has been a very good fit but I’ve had my concerns about him in that spot for a while. I don’t think he matches up well when facing good centers. He’s not very good defensively. So maybe worst case we lose a bit of the offense that we have with Strome Panarin but I think we are better overall And a tougher matchup with a beast like Chytil playing 20 mins behind Mika.

honestly Panarin is so good I mean look at who the other top scorers in the league get to play with. And then Panarin is with Strome and Fast. I can’t imagine him not performing with a really good young player. We saw it in Columbus too. Look what he did for Dubois

and then of course if it means Mika gets to keep flying around with Kreider I’m all for that double combo weapon

 

[Edge]

so no concerns that the chemistry between panarin/strome might be special and no guarantee panarin will have the same chemistry with another player? if pushed, i'd lean to also say that panarin is simply so good that it doesn't matter who his linemates are. but at the same time wouldn't hate knowing that he fits with chytil and/or kakko before moving on from strome.

I think at some point, the Rangers are going to have to see how some of those combinations work.

If Chytil slides into the slot with Panarin, and doesn't really miss a beat, that potentially influences the approach with Strome.

But it's hard at this point to assume it can work, even if it seems completely logical on paper. We've seen this before with combinations that should be superior, but don't click, and combinations that work, but aren't sexy.

The allure can be hard to resist sometimes, and it feels like there's always a reason to upgrade when it appears an inferior talent is benefiting from a star player. But it can be an imperfect science.

 

[Fitzy]

If we had stuck with Nylander in 2008 we could have

A. Had Jagr hit his bonus year by getting more points
B. Avoided the Drury contract fiasco, while still getting Gomez.
C. Been able to afford to keep Matt Cullen as a 3rd line center

Chemistry matters. Jagr wasn't able to do with Drury or Gomez what he did with Nyls.

 

[n8]

NHLTR: Calgary Flames Looking for Two Top-Six Wingers There ya go. Bennett and a 1st for buchnevich?

I like Buch but no way he gets that much. I have a hard time thinking we'd even get a 1st for him unless it was one of those Zuccarello deals where it's a 28-31 pick.

 

[Lion Hound]

If we had stuck with Nylander in 2008 we could have

A. Had Jagr hit his bonus year by getting more points
B. Avoided the Drury contract fiasco, while still getting Gomez.
C. Been able to afford to keep Matt Cullen as a 3rd line center

Chemistry matters. Jagr wasn't able to do with Drury or Gomez what he did with Nyls.

Not re-signing Nylander was a big mistake. Jagr was furious about it. It showed.

 

[n8]

That article about Hank to the Avs isnt true, Adrian Dater reported theres no basis to it.

I think everyone is forgetting the Avs can inquire all they want. Until the Rangers go to Hank and ask him to waive, then anything written about Hank is going to be untrue.

 

[Leetch3]

random thought on strome...we almost should view him as a UFA. I know he's gonna be a RFA but if we don't give him a multi-year deal, he will file for arbitration (and get a big raise) and then become a UFA. so if you aren't going to commit to him long term now, then he probably has more value now with a year of control left over next year. so we aren't forced to move him now, but I might view it that way if i'm not keeping him long term.

 

[n8]

I think there's a solid argument that Kreider's skating will age well and that he can have a place in the NHL because of his stronger assets.

I also think there are two elements that get severely overlooked, that play a role into the term we are talking about:

1. While we can argue that Kreider's more appealing attributes might age well, I think you also have to figure that his less appealing traits could also magnify as well. Streaky players tend to see that trait increase with age as recovery times take longer, wear and tear accumulates faster, and the league around them gets younger (thus somewhat negating their once bountiful physical gifts).

2. Speaking to some of those last points, you're going to be looking at a guy with quite a bit of mileage under the hood in the coming years. And the dangers of having a player who relies on physical gifts, as opposed to internal traits like IQ or awareness, is that said physical gifts come with a shelf life. A high IQ player can lose some speed, but still unlock paths to success. But what is Kreider if he starts to lose said speed? How big is that toll on the overall package he brings? Because, let's face it, he's not going to compensate with a high IQ, world-class hands, or his relentless pursuit of the puck.

One of the big selling points for people who wanted to sign Panarin was the later start to his North American career, and that he didn't necessarily have a lot of hard miles on his body.

At this point, Kreider has roughly two fulls year of additional mileage on his body, including playoffs, and will be already be turning 30 at the conclusion of the first year of his next contract.

And again, even if we clear room for next season with Kreider (we move Strome, we move Buch, we move whoever), we will still have what amounts to an immovable contract on the roster until the year 2027. I'm just not sure the juice is quite worth the squeeze on this one.

Initially I was "concerned" about the Backstrom extension but he's a guy with the hockey IQ to slow the game to his pace and make the smart plays. Kreider's hockey IQ? not so much. I mean when he's old he still has to go to work in the slot. It's different being the offensive player imposing in the slot while older bigger defensemen can still do that job but usually the naturally bigger ones. Again, hockey IQ required. Which reminds me, damn, I wish we pony upped for Chara instead of settling for Redden! He was the guy I wanted of the two.

 

[bl02]

Totally don’t know right now on trading CK. I guess if the return is what Hayes brought we would have to. For what people say this is supposed to be a deep draft but that pick probably won’t be 20th overall or better. JG is gonna Have to find a young prospect/player that fits this team

 

[Minmonster]

People remember the Kreider at the start of the season right? That wasn’t that long ago.

As a player ages those stretches occur more often, even IF u wanna chalk this yrs stretch up to the sword of Damocles hanging over his head.

I agree the build accelerated. Something some of us WERE worried about... and still are.

Not only stretches of being unproductive but also longer stretches of being injured. Krieder has sustained a lot of injuries in his mid twenties. That pattern will not improve with age. Lastly anyone who believes that he’s going to accept a contract for 5 years or less are just telling themselves a fictional story

 

[NYRangers0723]

Initially I was "concerned" about the Backstrom extension but he's a guy with the hockey IQ to slow the game to his pace and make the smart plays. Kreider's hockey IQ? not so much. I mean when he's old he still has to go to work in the slot. It's different being the offensive player imposing in the slot while older bigger defensemen can still do that job but usually the naturally bigger ones. Again, hockey IQ required. Which reminds me, damn, I wish we pony upped for Chara instead of settling for Redden! He was the guy I wanted of the two

.

Again the whole “Kreider has a low hockey IQ” thing I think is garbage. He isn’t a dumb player despite what some say. I think he has gotten better defensively over the years. Even the penalties have gone down but being a fast physical players means penalties will happen

 

[Ola]

random thought on strome...we almost should view him as a UFA. I know he's gonna be a RFA but if we don't give him a multi-year deal, he will file for arbitration (and get a big raise) and then become a UFA. so if you aren't going to commit to him long term now, then he probably has more value now with a year of control left over next year. so we aren't forced to move him now, but I might view it that way if i'm not keeping him long term.

What could Strome and Geo get in arbitration? Any ideas?

Long-term they will be costly, but at the same time, look at JT Miller. Tampa gave him a big deal but the fact that he was under contract just made him more valuable.

It is hard to value the risks.

 

[Ola]

Again the whole “Kreider has a low hockey IQ” thing I think is garbage. He isn’t a dumb player despite what some say. I think he has gotten better defensively over the years. Even the penalties have gone down but being a fast physical players means penalties will happen

He was a player that was VERY underdeveloped in terms of hockey IQ, now he has certainly developed so much with his play with the puck and how he moves. It’s fantastic.

 

[cheech70]

I was in favor of trading Kreider and have changed my mind. The money for his deal comes from Brady(we have LD depth), Strome and Pavel. Filip moves to 2C. Wait for Kaako and Vitaly to mature into Pro's. Then get a real 3C like Oskar Sundqvist from the Blues. Then we need JD to pull off a Panarin for Saad or Johanson for Seth Jones deal. Boom we are in the playoffs and ready to move forward.

 

[n8]

Again the whole “Kreider has a low hockey IQ” thing I think is garbage. He isn’t a dumb player despite what some say. I think he has gotten better defensively over the years. Even the penalties have gone down but being a fast physical players means penalties will happen

Kreider hockey IQ = good
Backstrom hockey IQ = great
don't put words in my mouth. no where did I say he was dumb. Backstrom is just leagues above CK.
And you seem to gloss over the part where Kreider's body is one of his main assets. An asset that depreciates with time so his main strength will weaken over the course of a 7 year contract. Maybe he can maintain his speed but he can't bully his way into the slot and get in position for all of his tip ins. Or he will and get injured and only play 60 games a season.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

In the end its Kreiders time to get paid, I hope its somewhere else and wish him luck if that's the case.

 

[NYRangers0723]

Kreider hockey IQ = good
Backstrom hockey IQ = great
don't put words in my mouth. no where did I say he was dumb. Backstrom is just leagues above CK.
And you seem to gloss over the part where Kreider's body is one of his main assets. An asset that depreciates with time so his main strength will weaken over the course of a 7 year contract. Maybe he can maintain his speed but he can't bully his way into the slot and get in position for all of his tip ins. Or he will and get injured and only play 60 games a season

.

Jesus Christ, Relax lol. Never said you said he was dumb but many fans have labeled him as a low hockey IQ. Also I don’t gloss over anything so don’t you put words in my mouth lol

 

[Cag29]

I hope that Hank asks for a trade which prolly won’t happen.
From time to time Georgi has proved that he can play solid even when taking longer breaks between games. He’s very good at tracking pucks, rebound control and his lateral movement is prolly top 5 in the league. Just don’t trade him if the return isn’t good enough.

JD and Gorts have a lot to think about.

If Hank waives:
To Colorado:
Hank
Kreider
ADA

to Rangers:
Alex Newhook
Bowen Byram
2020 1st
2021 2nd becomes a 1st if Kreider resigns or they win the cup.

 

[egelband]

Crazy thought. How about offering CK 3/24?

 

[Kovalev27]

Leafs nation.com thinks a deal involving Kapanen and Georgiev makes the most sense. And for me that’s the deal to make. I think it allows you to move on from Fast and Buchnevich. A Finnish right winger with speed who loves to hunt down pucks like Fast does. If he were actually avail in a trade like this that’s the deal to make.

not to mention maybe he helps Kakko along a bit.

 

[Avery16]

If we had stuck with Nylander in 2008 we could have

A. Had Jagr hit his bonus year by getting more points
B. Avoided the Drury contract fiasco, while still getting Gomez.
C. Been able to afford to keep Matt Cullen as a 3rd line center

Chemistry matters. Jagr wasn't able to do with Drury or Gomez what he did with Nyls.

This is the definition of holding a grudge but it is also 100% accurate

 

[Avery16]

If Hank waives:
To Colorado:
Hank
Kreider
ADA

to Rangers:
Alex Newhook
Bowen Byram
2020 1st
2021 2nd becomes a 1st if Kreider resigns or they win the cup.

"if hank waives" is my cue to keep scrolling

 

[Avery16]

Crazy thought. How about offering CK 3/24?

He isn't worth it, and he probably knows he won't make up the difference in any deal he strikes when he's three years older

 

[wafflepadsave]

And why can't we look at a top six winger, and other things without Kreider?

I think the choices are we keep Kreider and that's our path forward, or we trade Kreider and sit pat with that we have.

I think there are many levels inbetween.

Why can't we flip the pick we get for Kreider, along with a prospect?

Or let Kravtsov make his push when he's there, rather than when we hope he's there?

For that matter, why can't we flip some of the above names and get a combination of wings and other depth pieces?

I don't think Kreider is the only path to go the direction you want.

If we could try a poker analogy for example. Similar to 5 card draw or in our case 20 card draw, we have some really nice cards in hand yet there’s still some cards that don’t quite help us win . So we throw in the cards that aren’t that helpful for the possibility of others that might serve us better.
There’s certainly no guarantee that the new cards give us the winning hand but if we don’t try for better cards, likeliness of winning is low.

 

[Cag29]

"if hank waives" is my cue to keep scrolling

I don’t give a shit.