Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXII

[Pawnee Rangers]

Okay, and what if that late first is packaged in a Trouba like deal?

Or what if that late first is in line with Miller, or Lundkvist, or Chytil?

Or the possibility of taking the Kreider return, flipping other pieces and getting a player we need, while also spreading Kreider's salary out among re-signings, the salaries of those acquired by trade, and the ability to make other moves moving forward?

Why can't moving Kreider be the end of the one sentence, and the set-up for the one that follows it as we write a cohesive narrative?

Say they trade Kreider at the deadline. Who's your top 6 next season?

 

[Off Sides]

I wonder who will be the next good, young, RFA who will refuse to sign long term wherever he is?

Like is Max Domi signing in Montreal for long term? Nurse in Edmonton? Tyler Bertuzzi in Detroit? Vrana in Washington?

I mean there is a good possibility they all extend long term where they are but if one of them or someone similar does shake loose I'd sure rather have the ammo to trade for them then not have it at that time.

 

[NYR Viper]

Say they trade Kreider at the deadline. Who's your top 6 next season?

Can they be on the lookout for who may be available this off-season before answering that question?

 

[NYR Viper]

I wonder who will be the next good, young, RFA who will refuse to sign long term wherever he is?

Like is Max Domi signing in Montreal for long term? Nurse in Edmonton? Tyler Bertuzzi in Detroit? Vrana in Washington?

I mean there is a good possibility they all extend long term where they are but if one of them or someone similar does shake loose I'd sure rather have the ammo to trade for them then not have it at that time.

I think Jack Eichel asks out of Buffalo pretty soon. I know he isn't a RFA but I think that's the next hammer to fall when they inevitably miss the playoffs AGAIN

 

[Edge]

Say they trade Kreider at the deadline. Who's your top 6 next season?

I don't know, because I have to see what else is done.

Moving Kreider is not a vacuum move.

It's not Kreider vs. nobody.

Internally, you're top six could include Panarin, Zibanejad and combinations of Strome, Chytil, Kakko, and Kravtsov.

Frankly, based on discussions, it could include someone like Nylander. It could include Tuch.

 

[The New Russian Five]

are these guys gonna play for free? Top 6 players are either getting signed to a big contract or coming to NY with an already big contract.

Depends where they are in their contract status. Kreider's contract is going to be bloated because he's a UFA. If the rangers can pick up a 23 year old top 6 player, he will be cost controlled.

 

[Leetch3]

shifting a little bit to strome...lets say they are planning to trade him (for the sake of argument)...over the next month do you keep him strapped to panarin to maximize his points and trade value? or do you try panarin with chytil to test out their chemistry and see how that new line may or may not work before you deal strome?

 

[duhmetreE]

Okay, and what if that late first is packaged in a Trouba like deal?

Or what if that late first is in line with Miller, or Lundkvist, or Chytil?

Or the possibility of taking the Kreider return, flipping other pieces and getting a player we need, while also spreading Kreider's salary out among re-signings, the salaries of those acquired by trade, and the ability to make other moves moving forward?

Why can't moving Kreider be the end of the one sentence, and the set-up for the one that follows it as we write a cohesive narrative?

we're talking about a known commodity for a what if... Where that 'what if' has a high probability of failing... or does not exist.

We can play the what if game with everything. What if Kreider tunrs into a 40G 80PT player over his new contract. What if all the assets acquired in the Kreider trade fail.

 

[The New Russian Five]

I don't know, because I have to see what else is done.

Moving Kreider is not a vacuum move.

It's not Kreider vs. nobody.

Internally, you're top six could include Panarin, Zibanejad and combinations of Strome, Chytil, Kakko, and Kravtsov.

Frankly, based on discussions, it could include someone like Nylander. It could include Tuch.

Exactly. Everyone sees Kreider being moved in isolation. The rangers have an abundance of assets. They are obviously going to make some larger scale moves to upgrade certain positions at some point. The key is to patient and opportunistic. There are quite a few teams with either disgruntled talent or are mismanaging their cap situations. The rangers have the assets and hopefully the cap space (don't re-sign Kreider!) to take advantage of these teams.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I don't know, because I have to see what else is done.

Moving Kreider is not a vacuum move.

It's not Kreider vs. nobody.

Internally, you're top six could include Panarin, Zibanejad and combinations of Strome, Chytil, Kakko, and Kravtsov.

Frankly, based on discussions, it could include someone like Nylander. It could include Tuch.

I'll believe Nylander when I see it. And Tuch is not a top 6 player. And internally, you have three centers and a 19 and a 20 year old (who's yet to play an NHL shift) in your top 6. Interesting strategy.

 

[NYR Viper]

we're talking about a known commodity for a what if... Where that 'what if' has a high probability of failing... or does not exist.

We can play the what if game with everything. What if Kreider tunrs into a 40G 80PT player over his new contract. What if all the assets acquired in the Kreider trade fail.

Well in fairness, that is what must happen when speaking about future events. It's probability and projection

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I think Jack Eichel asks out of Buffalo pretty soon. I know he isn't a RFA but I think that's the next hammer to fall when they inevitably miss the playoffs AGAIN

I'd kill for Eichel on this team

Although it will never happen

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Depends where they are in their contract status. Kreider's contract is going to be bloated because he's a UFA. If the rangers can pick up a 23 year old top 6 player, he will be cost controlled.

A 23 year old, cost controlled top 6 player. Can't believe no one else thought of that.

 

[Kovalev27]

The irony is you say that the talent on the team needs to stay intact moving forward, but somehow you fail to see how signing Kreider makes it difficult to do that. For example, do you really think the rangers can keep Kreider and ADA?

Panarin and Mika aren't going anywhere. I expect them to play at close to their current levels for the next 4-5 years and even after that I expect them to play at a very high level. Also, just because we have the highest scoring defense, the best LW in the league, and excellent goaltending does it mean that current make up of the team is good. They still have the worst Corsi stats in the league and I believe the worst expected goal against stats in the last decade. There are many strengths to this team, yes, but the holes are hugely gaping and will need some time to fix and fill.

Again if this was 2-3 years from now and we were talking about Kreider in his current age, this would be a very different conversation. But that's not where we are at. I preach patience rather than try to rush things. The rangers have always tried to rush things and it never works. It's refreshing to see that they are being patient and opportunistic for once like they did in the last off season.

Kreider marks the last round asset in the "sell off." After that I see the team switching gears in terms of how they manage their accumulated assets. I expect the front office will start making aggressive maneuvers next year to make upgrades to the holes in this team.

There’s no irony here. I’ve repeatedly referred to the CORE talent. I’ve listed multiple guys I feel can be moved out that don’t hurt this team near or long term by being replaced internally while opening additional cap space. As it is we only have 2 large contracts on the books past next year. A ton of money in buyout dollars coming off an ever increasing cap that will only get bigger with the next tv deal. And timing entry level deals with expiring ones.

And 3 years from now you’ll be telling me to trade Mika because he’s closing in on 30 and you worry about when his decline will start.

 

[The New Russian Five]

we're talking about a known commodity for a what if... Where that 'what if' has a high probability of failing... or does not exist.

We can play the what if game with everything. What if Kreider tunrs into a 40G 80PT player over his new contract. What if all the assets acquired in the Kreider trade fail.

Really? You think Kreider, at 29, somehow finds another gear that adds 30 points to his point totals finally after 8 seasons in the league? It is far more likely that his numbers start to decline over the course of his contract than to increase. If anything Kreider is an unknown commodity because we really just don't know how he will age going into his 30s, it's a very unpredictable time period for hockey players in that stage of their careers.

 

[NYRangers0723]

A 23 year old, cost controlled top 6 player. Can't believe no one else thought of that.

Haha. He thinks he knows everything lol

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

shifting a little bit to strome...lets say they are planning to trade him (for the sake of argument)...over the next month do you keep him strapped to panarin to maximize his points and trade value? or do you try panarin with chytil to test out their chemistry and see how that new line may or may not work before you deal strome?

Assuming they're looking to trade him, yes you keep him with Panarin. Boost those points and hope some team is dumb enough to not realize that playing with Panarin is skewing his value

 

[Kovalev27]

shifting a little bit to strome...lets say they are planning to trade him (for the sake of argument)...over the next month do you keep him strapped to panarin to maximize his points and trade value? or do you try panarin with chytil to test out their chemistry and see how that new line may or may not work before you deal strome?

I’d keep him with Panarin and trade him in the summer. Bigger pool of teams will be looking for centers. He’s an rfa no need to move him yet.

 

[The New Russian Five]

A 23 year old, cost controlled top 6 player. Can't believe no one else thought of that.

Funny isn't that exactly what someone like Willian Nylander is? Teams are facing cap crunches. Some of them will have no choice but to trade these players. These types of players will become available if you are patient.

 

[Edge]

we're talking about a known commodity for a what if... Where that 'what if' has a high probability of failing... or does not exist.

We can play the what if game with everything. What if Kreider tunrs into a 40G 80PT player over his new contract. What if all the assets acquired in the Kreider trade fail.

Sure, and that cuts both ways.

What is the mileage does add up?

What if the wheels aren't enough to keep him afloat several years down the line.

Just like the assets acquiring for Kreider are unknown, so is the future of Kreider himself.

 

[Off Sides]

I think Jack Eichel asks out of Buffalo pretty soon. I know he isn't a RFA but I think that's the next hammer to fall when they inevitably miss the playoffs AGAIN

That would be sweet if he asked to be traded and only to the Rangers. I mean I guess it happens, it pretty much did with Nash.

Yet I was more thinking about something more similar to the Trouba deal where he wanted out, he was going to play out his RFA years and leave, so the team decided to make a deal before the player could hit UFA.

 

[NYRangers0723]

Funny isn't that exactly what someone like Willian Nylander is? Teams are facing cap crunches. Some of them will have no choice but to trade these players. These types of players will become available if you are patient.

. Haha

 

[Edge]

I'll believe Nylander when I see it. And Tuch is not a top 6 player. And internally, you have three centers and a 19 and a 20 year old (who's yet to play an NHL shift) in your top 6. Interesting strategy.

It's not a strategy, because I don't see that as the final product.

And Tuch isn't a top six player?

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Funny isn't that exactly what someone like Willian Nylander is? Teams are facing cap crunches. Some of them will have no choice but to trade these players. These types of players will become available if you are patient.

And you think Toronto is going to give him away? You wanna give up Kravstov or a top defensive prospect and picks and more picks and pay him $7.5 million a year on top of that? Have fun with that?

 

[Kovalev27]

I think our timeline is still and has always been tied to the contracts expiring next year (hank, staal, smith, shattenkirk's buyout)...this deadline and next offseason is about getting ready for that so assuming that a number of the kids progress you are ready to move to the next phase (with a ton of $$ freed up to fill holes)...

but to me the concern with kreider isn't the short term is the back end of the deal when you also have to give mika a raise, a bunch of the kids need new contracts etc. that's a potential nightmare and your 'just buy him out' theory isn't necessarily a solution cause you'd still have the dead space. normally I agree with you that teams don't worry about 5 years down the road but when giving out a 6+ year contract I think you do need to concern yourself with your projected cap situation.

Everything you are saying is all fair. But I’ll add one more thing. The tv deal. 7 mil against the cap after that tv deal could look like peanuts in year 6 and 7 of this potential contract. You just can’t plan that far out imo.