Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXI

[TheBloodyNine]

The push to win started when you brought in a 11 million dollar winger.

 

[jay from jersey]

"The Ranger have to go for it the next 3-4 years" is not an attitude I want from the front office.

Yes, we should try to win while Panarin is in his prime, sure. But at the end of that 5 year window, Fox will still be in his prime, and our new generation of kids (Laf, Kakko, Chytil, Miller, Lundkvist at al) will range in age from 24-26. That has the potential to still be a championship core even as Panarin, Zibby, Kreider age.

The way I see it and have said this frequently, there's two distinctive cores on this team. When the older one ages out the new one should be in full swing, so long as we don't go full stupid and trade all our young assets to try to win NOW

We aren't goo enough yet to be making Amonte trades, either.

They don’t have to win in the next 4 years but they certainly have to be a playoff team with the possibility of winning. Missing the playoffs too much is not a good look. It’s not good for the organization and it’s not good for the kids experience.
We can’t just say, oh we’re ready to compete now, it’s our first year where everything is settled and we’re in the playoffs and expect to win the cup. That’s not how it goes. You need those agonizing defeats, and heart stopping wins. You need minutes and experience.
That only happens by making it to the playoffs and playing those minutes. It’s so crucial for every kid we have. Forget about Zibby/ Panarins window, which is a big part, but put that aside for a minute.
Look at how many times Tampa or the Caps, or even us had to make it to the second season and have enough luck and skill combination to even make the finals...
Winning is no guarantee and things aren’t always going to break our way, but it’s so so important that the entire team start gaining that experience so the tweaks we make in the next 3-4 years actually propel us to the next level.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Yeah Shestyorkin’s contract set the window to win

if they don’t win in 4 years you blow it up and regroup with Laf, Kakko, Fox and Miller as the core

let shestyorkin walk in FA, Kreider’s NTC kicks in and you dump him to a bottom feeder, don’t re-sign Lindgren, maybe you try and trade Trouba if he’s declined

 

[Fitzy]

They don’t have to win in the next 4 years but they certainly have to be a playoff team with the possibility of winning. Missing the playoffs too much is not a good look. It’s not good for the organization and it’s not good for the kids experience.
We can’t just say, oh we’re ready to compete now, it’s our first year where everything is settled and we’re in the playoffs and expect to win the cup. That’s not how it goes. You need those agonizing defeats, and heart stopping wins. You need minutes and experience.

Oh I completely agree.

I just see this as having the potential for a 10 year 'window,' maybe more if they handle things correctly. We don't need to enter another rebuild when Lafreniere is 25 and Fox 28. When they are 30 and 33 we can have that hard conversation, like Pitt is having right now.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I agree that kids are getting paid earlier, but the cap is also higher than it was during the Pitt and Chicago windows, so we'd have to look at this with a 'relative % of cap' to make good comparisons.

That kids are getting paid more earlier I think has downstream effects on the whole league. NYR aren't the only team that is going to have to deal with this issue.

So if we view 'competitiveness' as chances of winning a cup relative to the level of the opposition, other teams are going to have to deal with the same bullshit we are. Tampa Bay's depth is getting stripped down right now. That's the price of progress.

The key is gonna be taking advantage of those times we find ourselves in the third round and beyond. Because you're gonna pay for that progress, and it's a tremendous waste to not come away with a cup for your trouble there.

I think we will never have a better opportunity to ice a Stanley cup team than the next 2 years. Look back at the leafs team since the year they had Kadri...it keeps getting worse and worse.

 

[Fitzy]

Yeah Shestyorkin’s contract set the window to win

if they don’t win in 4 years you blow it up and regroup with Laf, Kakko, Fox and Miller as the core

let shestyorkin walk in FA, Kreider’s NTC kicks in and you dump him to a bottom feeder, don’t re-sign Lindgren, maybe you try and trade Trouba if he’s declined

I think maybe we see 'blow it up' differently. If you ship out your older guys while keeping prime elite talent, it's a retool, not a rebuild. We shouldn't be missing the playoffs during that stretch. It'll be gentle transition of power from the Panarin generation to the Laf generation.

Older guys can be kept if they take severe discounts, but beyond that you plug the holes with youth from within.

 

[Fitzy]

I think we will never have a better opportunity to ice a Stanley cup team than the next 2 years. Look back at the leafs team since the year they had Kadri...it keeps getting worse and worse.

05-06 Pitt has Lemieux, Recchi, Gonchar, Palffy, Leclair...

I don't think we spent all this time rebuilding to only compete for a couple seasons.

 

[jay from jersey]

Oh I completely agree.

I just see this as having the potential for a 10 year 'window,' maybe more if they handle things correctly. We don't need to enter another rebuild when Lafreniere is 25 and Fox 28. When they are 30 and 33 we can have that hard conversation, like Pitt is having right now.

Absolutely right, just because the core of laf, Fox, kakko, Schneider, Barron shesty Miller etc is young, absolutely does not mean you write off the Panarin/Zibby years while they are playing their best hockey of their careers. You put your foot on the gas to try and win.
I’m not saying Mortgage the entire future, but letting a little youth go in trades while still restocking the cupboard is how I would proceed.
Our window is Right now, until LaF, kakko, Fox, and all our prospects 22-23 and under are over 30.
Solving the 1 and 2 center spots for the next 5-6 seasons is immensely important. It should be done sooner rather then later. Not kick the can down the road for a year or 2.
That to me is wasting critical (most likely) postseason experience for our kids, throwing another year or 2 away at panarin/Zibby playing at a high level, and all for what??waiting for the perfect move to fall into our laps?? Or not wanting to trade a prospect that might turn out great in 2-3. Years when his position is filled by a better player currently for the foreseeable future??
If drury and Co see their future with Zibby/ Larkin- Eichel/Larkin -Zibby /Dvorak/Chytil-Eichel/ Dvorak/ Chytil......
Whatever their projected top 2 Cs are, its very important they address it sooner rather then later IMO.
i highly doubt strome is in these long range plans.
Planning for 10 years in this league is way too difficult. Even 5-6 is hard but far more manageable

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The push to win started when you brought in a 11 million dollar winger.

It gets glossed over because they won the lottery twice, but they tied up 26 mill in cap space in less than a calendar year on 3 players. This actually happened before they won the lottery the second time.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I think maybe we see 'blow it up' differently. If you ship out your older guys while keeping prime elite talent, it's a retool, not a rebuild. We shouldn't be missing the playoffs during that stretch. It'll be gentle transition of power from the Panarin generation to the Laf generation.

Older guys can be kept if they take severe discounts, but beyond that you plug the holes with youth from within.

Blow it up in the sense that you’re presumably getting rid of some critical pieces from this core

 

[MetalJaws]

I hope Mika signs a David Krejci type deal. 6 or 7 years around $7.5-$8. Sure it's a discount but the extra year or two might get it done. I'd do the same for Fox. I'd aim right at 8x$8.25-$8.5. I think they'll both be in that ball park.

I do not feel Mika or Fox will try to cripple the team and get $10m each. That's absurd for a guy who's about to be 29 and for a guy who literally wont play for any other team but the NYR. They want to win in New York and that money is more than fair.

$3.5 of dead space comes off next season. You CAN have Eichel and Zib on this roster for the next 5 years. It just means Strome, Georgiev and possibly Chytil will be moved soon. One of Kreider or Trouba in the future. Raises in the cap could with maybe a slight retention for Eichel make for a very strong contender for years to come.

 

[jay from jersey]

I hope Mika signs a David Krejci type deal. 6 or 7 years around $7.5-$8. Sure it's a discount but the extra year or two might get it done. I'd do the same for Fox. I'd aim right at 8x$8.25-$8.5. I think they'll both be in that ball park.

I do not feel Mika or Fox will try to cripple the team and get $10m each. That's absurd for a guy who's about to be 29 and for a guy who literally wont play for any other team but the NYR. They want to win in New York and that money is more than fair.

$3.5 of dead space comes off next season. You CAN have Eichel and Zib on this roster for the next 5 years. It just means Strome, Georgiev and possibly Chytil will be moved soon. One of Kreider or Trouba in the future. Raises in the cap could with maybe a slight retention for Eichel make for a very strong contender for years to come.

I thought it was possible to fit both, but was told it was impossible. It would prob hurt us when we try to resign our kids though, I haven’t checked cap friendly.
I still see Eichel as more of a Zibby replacement though. Both have their injuries histories, both will make similar cash, both highly talented, not very physical centers. Eichel is by far younger and has more room to improve then Zibby who at this point, is what he is. A very good ppg C.
That all depends how they feel about the neck injury though.

 

[Blueshirts777]

That's absurd for a guy who literally wont play for any other team but the NYR.

Is there any source for this? This always gets spread around here, is it because he refused to commit to the Flames for one year or wore a Rangers jersey as a kid?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

People need to let go of this fantasy that Fox is going to take a mega discount.

At this point. 8x9.25-9.5 would be a discount.

He'll probably push for and get a similar deal to Makar. Fox can ask for and get pretty much what ever he wants.

 

[Thirty One]

Is there any source for this? This always gets spread around here, is it because he refused to commit to the Flames for one year or wore a Rangers jersey as a kid?

He wouldn't sign with the Flames, he wouldn't sign with the Hurricanes. He did sign with the Rangers.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Kreider
2020-2024: Full NTC/NMC
2024-2027: 15-team NTC

Trouba
2019-2020: RFA year, not eligible for a clause
2020-2024: Full NTC/NMC
2024-2026: 12-team NTC

ty - so the Rangers have some flexibility and not completely handcuffed like Hank.

 

[NYSPORTS]

He wouldn't sign with the Flames, he wouldn't sign with the Hurricanes. He did sign with the Rangers.

a good reminder for those (including me) who wanted a better return for Buch. Rangers stole Fox and were lucky enough to land Kakko while landing Laf was a miracle.

 

[McRanger92]

Feels like a matter of when, not if, now with Eichel. Drury has purposely left around 10 mil in cap space for flexibility to make the trade whenever Buffalo faces the music. The way i see it its probably Kravtsov+Lundkvist+2022 1st with maybe Georgiev thrown in. Could also see Kakko+Jones+2021 1st as an alternative, which would hurt, but you have to give to get. After that i assume they would flip Strome to Vegas for Reilly Smith to plug the RW hole.

Theres a 4-6 year stretch in which Panarin/Kreider/Goodrow/Shesterkin/Trouba/Eichel/Zibanejad(presumably) all come off the books. This is the window in which they will and should try to win a Cup. The team wont let Fox & Lafreniere go i think thats clear, but difficult decisions will need to be made. We need to start thinking in the Now, not worrying about future value as much. The rebuild is over.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Feels like a matter of when, not if, now with Eichel. Drury has purposely left around 10 mil in cap space for flexibility to make the trade whenever Buffalo faces the music. The way i see it its probably Kravtsov+Lundkvist+2022 1st with maybe Georgiev thrown in. Could also see Kakko+Jones+2021 1st as an alternative, which would hurt, but you have to give to get. After that i assume they would flip Strome to Vegas for Reilly Smith to plug the RW hole.

Theres a 4-6 year stretch in which Panarin/Kreider/Goodrow/Shesterkin/Trouba/Eichel/Zibanejad(presumably) all come off the books. This is the window in which they will and should try to win a Cup. The team wont let Fox & Lafreniere go i think thats clear, but difficult decisions will need to be made. We need to start thinking in the Now, not worrying about future value as much. The rebuild is over.

If they were gonna trade Kakko for him it would have happened already.

 

[brakeyawself]

I think we will never have a better opportunity to ice a Stanley cup team than the next 2 years. Look back at the leafs team since the year they had Kadri...it keeps getting worse and worse.

I think that clock starts whenever the majority of Laf, Kakko, Kravtsov, Chytil, Lundqvist, Scheider, Miller, Jones, start producing like we hope and expect they will. And I can't say that's happened yet for any, only Sheisty and Fox out of our younger additions. Which basically leaves Panarin, Zibs, Strome, Kreider to carry us? And I don't think that will constitute our best chance.

But once the majority of those players, or perhaps even half, start producing to a more significant degree, it will continue to be a work in progress.

Which is partially why I would like to see Chytil getting time at 2C this year, and not holding back any of our young players. Like we added Nemeth, and he's a meh player. Detroit and Colorado fans don't have a whole lot of nice things to say about him playing for their teams over the past few years. He's solid depth, but I don't think he should necessarily be starting over a guy like Jones right now, or even Robertson if perhaps he seems ready coming out of preseason. They still have to beat him out, but I would just rather see us being ok with one more development year where we don't set unnecessarily high expectations or even push a team just to make the playoffs if they can't contend.

 

[duhmetreE]

People need to let go of this fantasy that Fox is going to take a mega discount.

At this point. 8x9.25-9.5 would be a discount.

He'll probably push for and get a similar deal to Makar. Fox can ask for and get pretty much what ever he wants.

dont tell me what to do

8x8

 

[brakeyawself]

It gets glossed over because they won the lottery twice, but they tied up 26 mill in cap space in less than a calendar year on 3 players. This actually happened before they won the lottery the second time.

I do. Hope this is one area this regime is better at. No more ridiculous contracts for guys like Trouba and Kreider and not dumping too much in one basket. Cough EIChel, cough

 

[jay from jersey]

Is there any source for this? This always gets spread around here, is it because he refused to commit to the Flames for one year or wore a Rangers jersey as a kid?

He def forced himself here. That’s how we got him for 2 2nds. Wouldn’t sign with Calgary and wouldn’t sign with canes when traded. It was common knowledge he wanted to be a ranger

 

[brakeyawself]

a good reminder for those (including me) who wanted a better return for Buch. Rangers stole Fox and were lucky enough to land Kakko while landing Laf was a miracle.

You can’t compare these situations. Fox was a completely unproven prospect and I don’t think anyone thought he’d be be quite this good. Not Norris trophy’ in his first few years level.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You know what would be awesome?

If the FO doesn't do anything about the C position, they give Kravtsov a look there, he takes off and we don't have to talk about this shit again.