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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXI

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SA16 said:
He piggy backed off his linemates yet he was the one who led the team in points? He also had almost 25% of his ice time with Aaron Voros. His most common linemate was Dubinsky who put up 41 points.

The year before his most common linemates in CBJ were Michael Peca (34 pts in 65 games), Jason Chimera (31 pts), Rick Nash, and Jiri Novotny (22 pts in 65 games).

His linemates, outside of Nash, were far inferior players.

Zherdev is easily the most misunderstood Ranger since the lockout. Even more than Rick Nash I would say. And letting him go for nothing is among the worst decisions the organization has made.
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I thought that at the time, but in hindsight, he never really amounted to much and apparently there wouldn't have been much of a market for him.

The dude just wasn't destined for much of an NHL career.
 
Something interesting, there's a chance Zucc heads for Europe this summer. I don't know, but if he decides to do this, I guess it would drop his trade value a lot.
 
Webster said:
Something interesting, there's a chance Zucc heads for Europe this summer. I don't know, but if he decides to do this, I guess it would drop his trade value a lot.
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It wouldn't change his value even slightly. A player heading to Europe after the season and a player who is signing with another team after the season have the same value.
 
Tawnos said:
It wouldn't change his value even slightly. A player heading to Europe after the season and a player who is signing with another team after the season have the same value.
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Well then there's no problem about that.
 
Edge said:
I'm not going to lie, I think there are some players who are not nearly as untouchable as we might think.

And I'll include names like Zibanejad, Kreider, Skjei, and even Andersson in that group.
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Nobody is untouchable for me, but I definitely have a couple guys who would require a "wow me" sort of offer. Kreider and Zibanejad are in that bucket in my eyes. I'd want a top tier prospect or a top 7 or 8 pick just to get talks started in the right direction.

Then I have another bucket for guys like Skjei and Buchnevich. I'm not actively shopping them per se, but I'm feeling out the market to see who wants to make a hockey trade or is willing to give up a young guy I really like.
 
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One Winged Angel said:
I can understand not valuing the goalie, but my philosophy is BPA. I could be wrong, but I think you and most might agree that the first goalie that’s taken in drafts has to have at least potential to be a starter, no? Hypothetically speaking, if that’s the case, unless organizational need dictates otherwise, why not take the goalie if he’s the better player? Even if organizational depth takes a turn and he ends up being a redundant piece, you can always move him in a trade.
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If a goalie is the BPA, but you also are pretty sure you can get that goalie a round or even two rounds later, then you take your next-best player available and grab the goalie in another round. Just looking at the top-40 goalies this year in SV% (I'm just picking a random stat, I know), the guys were drafted in the following rounds:

1st: 7
2nd: 6
3rd: 6
4th: 2
5th: 2
6th: 3
7th: 2
Later/undrafted: 12

If you just take the top ten and make it a 25 GP minimum (so like a regular starter), then you have 2 1st, 2 2nd, 2 3rd, and 4 later/undrafted. This obviously fluctuates from year to year but I think the overall point holds pretty consistently: while you definitely do find good goaltending in round one, you're basically just as likely to find it in round two or three and you're more likely to find it outside the draft. Goaltending is the one commodity that can pretty consistently be found outside of the first 30-60 picks, or in the UDFA market. This is why I wouldn't take a goalie in round one unless my team had literally nothing in the pipeline and was otherwise completely set everywhere else. It's just not something you generally should need to spend a first round pick on, even if there's a guy who will be "better" than the next forward or defenseman on your board.
 
Edge said:
I think you saw it on TSN, but Kreider is definitely in play.

And that's something we've talked about on here since last summer.
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Ohhhhh ****!

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What do you guys think someone like Claesson will get at the deadline?

I wasn't fond of the signing at the time, but I think he's been our steadiest dmen this season. If plugs like Staal and Smith weren't here I wouldn't mind bringing him back.
 
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nyr2k2 said:
If a goalie is the BPA, but you also are pretty sure you can get that goalie a round or even two rounds later, then you take your next-best player available and grab the goalie in another round. Just looking at the top-20 goalies this year in SV% (I'm just picking a random stat, I know), the guys were drafted in the following rounds:

1st: 7
2nd: 6
3rd: 6
4th: 2
5th: 2
6th: 3
7th: 2
Later/undrafted: 12

If you just take the top ten and make it a 25 GP minimum (so like a regular starter), then you have 2 1st, 2 2nd, 2 3rd, and 4 later/undrafted. This obviously fluctuates from year to year but I think the overall point holds pretty consistently: while you definitely do find good goaltending in round one, you're basically just as likely to find it in round two or three and you're more likely to find it outside the draft. Goaltending is the one commodity that can pretty consistently be found outside of the first 30-60 picks, or in the UDFA market. This is why I wouldn't take a goalie in round one unless my team had literally nothing in the pipeline and was otherwise completely set everywhere else. It's just not something you generally should need to spend a first round pick on, even if there's a guy who will be "better" than the next forward or defenseman on your board.
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I could see that, I think you explained that pretty well. If that’s the case, then a trade down would be ideal. I do agree that you don’t see a lot of them drafted in the first round for a reason, but I feel like part that is that it’s not nearly as often that you end up needing a goaltender as you do a center, wing or defender and there are more positions to fill.

I also think part of that is due to goaltender values being the toughest to gauge. You don’t see big goaltender trades often and more often than not, the returns on them are either underwhelming or less than expected by fans. Starting goaltenders are hard to find and that’s not even talking about a legitimate franchise goaltender, so once you find either, you’re most likely set for a long time on top of having only 2 positions available per team.
 
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Kupo said:
What do you guys think someone like Claesson will get at the deadline?

Crazy, how I wasn't fond of the signing at the time, but I think he's been our steadiest dmen this season. If plugs like Staal and Smith weren't here I wouldn't mind bringing him back.
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He's a RFA at years end. I wonder if a team would look at him as more than just a rental. Or I wonder if the Rangers would just like to keep him around
 
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