Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX

[egelband]

And 2 years older.

Said it before, and I'll say it again: sign for 4 years, Chris, and welcome aboard. Looking forward to hopefully giving you another, nice 2-year contract in the summer of '24, after you prove yourself the exception to the "power forwards fall off a cliff at the age of 30/31" rule.

Otherwise, I hope you help your new team with the Cup this year.

Yes. Based on what he has done and the testimonials I've read this year, I'm kind of thinking, if he’d take four years, If I’m the Rangers I’m good to go to $7m per. Which is a ton for a 50 pt player. But for the heartbeat of the team, maybe it’s wise.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I think guys like Kreider, Strome and DeAngelo will decide if they stay or go with their asking price and term. I'm all for the rebuild but at some point you have to start moving forward and if you keep creating holes and trying to fill them with young players you keep chasing the rabbit down the rabbit hole. Let the contract asks decide who stays or goes and make it clear that's what will dictate that.

 

[Edge]

Yes. Based on what he has done and the testimonials I've read this year, I'm kind of thinking, if he’d take four years, If I’m the Rangers I’m good to go to $7m per. Which is a ton for a 50 pt player. But for the heartbeat of the team, maybe it’s wise.

I think the Rangers would be open to Kreider at more per year, over a shorter contract. It would necessitate other moves, but I'll venture a guess there would be an interest.

But, and this is a big but, that scenario would essentially be asking Kreider to leave three years and arguably around $15-$20 million on the table. And that's something we really need to consider --- we're not talking about a couple of million.

We're talking about a difference 8 digits, multiple years, and a compromise on what is going to be the biggest contract of his career and more money than multiple generations of his family could hope to earn --- combined.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I think the Rangers would be open to Kreider at more per year, over a shorter contract. It would necessitate other moves, but I'll venture a guess there would be an interest.

But, and this is a big but, that scenario would essentially be asking Kreider to leave three years and arguably around $15-$20 million on the table. And that's something we really need to consider --- we're not talking about a couple of million.

We're talking about a difference 8 digits, multiple years, and a compromise on what is going to be the biggest contract of his career and more money than multiple generations of his family could hope to earn --- combined.

The one thing about Kreider is that he strikes me as a different sort. This is someone who finished his degree early. He doesn’t seem like a hockey lifer.

 

[Edge]

The one thing about Kreider is that he strikes me as a different sort. This is someone who finished his degree early. He doesn’t seem like a hockey lifer.

I could definitely see him going a different direction post-playing career. He reminds me a lot of Stefan Cherneski in that regard. Frankly, it's an increasingly common trend in younger players --- both with and without degrees.

 

[ohbaby]

But, and this is a big but, that scenario would essentially be asking Kreider to leave three years and arguably around $15-$20 million on the table..... We're talking about a difference 8 digits, multiple years, and a compromise on what is going to be the biggest contract of his career

This is what people fail to grasp. It's a pipe dream to think he will stay for less. This is his payday for all his hard work. This is his financial future. It's a done deal. The Rangers can't afford him.

He will play his heart out the next 8 weeks and beyond in anticipation of his windfall.

 

[bobbop]

What's your threshold when it comes to term/AAV for Kreider in order for it to make sense organizationally? And is that term/AAV realistic for Kreider to actually accept it?

First posted in October;

5 years, $34 MM heavily front loaded and lots of bonus money.

I don’t believe at age 29 he is going to get a 7 year contract and it is hard for me to see anyone (in a great hockey place) giving him 6 years. He isn’t going to chase a contract to Ottawa. Tavares got 7 years at age 28. Kreider isn’t Tavares. Anders Lee got seven years at age 29 but I think that was due to the unique circumstances of Tavares walking and Panarin turning down the Isles. Kevin Hayes got 7 years at age 27 from a desperate team with a load of cap space. I don’t see a repeat of that this year.

 

[Edge]

This is what people fail to grasp. It's a pipe dream to think he will stay for less. This is his payday for all his hard work. This is his financial future. It's a done deal. The Rangers can't afford him.

I tend to agree with this and it's one of the reasons why I keep bringing it up.

It's not an argument about Kreider being replaceable, or his consistency, or the value of the return, or how we feel about him.

It's about money --- a lot of money. It's about him either leaving a lot of money on the table to stay, or the Rangers having to move money in order to keep him.

When it comes to trade proposals we often here about how a proposal isn't likely to work because it gets complicated and would require a lot of different components lining up in order to come to fruition. But contracts are in the same boat.

If we have to start relying on players leaving multiple years and millions upon millions of dollars on the table, and we need to move multiple contracts in order to make it work, even with a player leaving term and dollars on the table, the odds of it happening go down considerably.

 

[ohbaby]

I tend to agree with this and it's one of the reasons why I keep bringing it up.

It's not an argument about Kreider being replaceable, or his consistency, or the value of the return, or how we feel about him.

It's about money --- a lot of money. It's about him either leaving a lot of money on the table to stay, or the Rangers having to move money in order to keep him.

When it comes to trade proposals we often here about how a proposal isn't likely to work because it gets complicated and would require a lot of different components lining up in order to come to fruition. But contracts are in the same boat.

If we have to start relying on players leaving multiple years and millions upon millions of dollars on the table, and we need to move multiple contracts in order to make it work, even with a player leaving term and dollars on the table, the odds of it happening go down considerably.

It goes beyond money. It is your future security that money can buy. And that is not to be taken lightly or left on the table.

 

[Edge]

First posted in October;

5 years, $34 MM heavily front loaded and lots of bonus money.

I don’t believe at age 29 he is going to get a 7 year contract and it is hard for me to see anyone (in a great hockey place) giving him 6 years. He isn’t going to chase a contract to Ottawa. Tavares got 7 years at age 28. Kreider isn’t Tavares. Anders Lee got seven years at age 29 but I think that was due to the unique circumstances of Tavares walking and Panarin turning down the Isles. Kevin Hayes got 7 years at age 27 from a desperate team with a load of cap space. I don’t see a repeat of that this year.

I have to respectively disagree with you. Kreider is, as everyone who wants to resign him has pointed out, a fairly unique player. I definitely think there are going to multiple offers on the table for him. The Kreider-Tavares comparison is a bit off for me, mainly because beyond years Tavares is also earning 57 percent more per year.

Some teams to keep an eye on - Florida without a state income tax and Hoffman's contract potentially coming off the books. New Jersey, to bring a dynamic winger in. Colorado is going to have space, and a young team that is already pushing towards the playoffs. Don't rule out Detroit either, and a directive from the top to get things turned around in short order. I wouldn't rule Dallas out of things either --- both from what they're looking to do, and the fact that they don't have a state income tax.

But even if we put all of that aside for a little while, even a front loaded contract is going to be put some restrictions on a team that is looking to upgrade several areas --- which typically means acquiring players who are getting paid, or on the threshold of getting paid.

Is a reunion possible? Yes, in the grand scheme of possibilities it certainly is. Is it likely? Eh, probably not.

 

[Bring Back Avery]

Re-sign Kreider and Strome. If we can, Re-sign Lemmy too. Trade DeAngelo, Fast, Buch, Georgiev, and if possible, Staal and Smith (Lias of course too). Then just let the kids come up and fill in the gaps.

 

[Edge]

Re-sign Kreider and Strome. If we can, Re-sign Lemmy too. Trade DeAngelo, Fast, Buch, Georgiev, and if possible, Staal and Smith (Lias of course too). Then just let the kids come up and fill in the gaps.

Not going to debate the premise, but Kreider and Strome are going to cost you around $12 million to resign. With Lemmy, probably $14 million+.

Trading ADA, Fast, Buch and Georgiev would likely bring back another $3-10 million in salary, because the Rangers aren't likely trading them for prospects or picks.

Staal and Smith aren't going anywhere, unless one of both of them develops a case of Seabrook-itis.

 

[Bring Back Avery]

Not going to debate the premise, but Kreider and Strome are going to cost you around $12 million to resign. With Lemmy, probably $14 million+.

Trading ADA, Fast, Buch and Georgiev would likely bring back another $3-10 million in salary, because the Rangers aren't likely trading them for prospects or picks.

Staal and Smith aren't going anywhere, unless one of both of them develops a case of Seabrook-itis.

I'd say only trade for picks. Even if it means we take somewhat of a bath(nothing too ridiculous) on the return. We could swing it.

 

[Edge]

I'd say only trade for picks. Even if it means we take somewhat of a bath(nothing too ridiculous) on the return. We could swing it.

I think that phase of things is over, at least on a larger scale. You might see it with Kreider and Fast, but probably not much beyond them at this point.

 

[Bring Back Avery]

Honestly, I think Kreids and Strome bring leadership and chemistry that is hard to replace. Plus I want to bring our Russian kids(Rykov, Kravy, and Shesty) up ASAP and let them grow and develop. I think we could already have the main pieces we need to be real contenders in 2 or 3 years...maybe 4.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Evan Rodrigues has requested a trade from Buffalo. Played 2 years under DQ at BU.

Haha, trading players who requests a trade for other players who request trades has become the new "Ethnic Voltron" where player A will be better if he plays with player B from the same country.

 

[mas0764]

Would really like to get back down into the 4-7 range of the lottery. We need an extended losing streak, and maybe Kakko in the AHL.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Yes. Based on what he has done and the testimonials I've read this year, I'm kind of thinking, if he’d take four years, If I’m the Rangers I’m good to go to $7m per. Which is a ton for a 50 pt player. But for the heartbeat of the team, maybe it’s wise.

I'm sorry but where is this Kreider/heartbeat of the team stuff coming from? He's never come across as that type of organizational leader to me.

 

[haohmaru]

I'm sorry but where is this Kreider/heartbeat of the team stuff coming from? He's never come across as that type of organizational leader to me.

That would be #30

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Re-sign Kreider and Strome. If we can, Re-sign Lemmy too. Trade DeAngelo, Fast, Buch, Georgiev, and if possible, Staal and Smith (Lias of course too). Then just let the kids come up and fill in the gaps.

I don't think the math works here. I also don't think it's wise to throw big dollars at vets who have been inconsistent NHL'ers for a long time, particularly at the expense of a guy like DeAngelo, whose best days seem to be ahead of him.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

That would be #30

True. And he's gone after next season, you'd have to think.

We are entering dangerous territory where paying through the nose for "leadership" is being tossed around quite a lot.

If the fanbase is really all in on this rebuild, we need to take a leap of faith that this crop of youngsters will eventually evolve into leaders. They absolutely do not need to be overpaying Kreider into his 30's for this.

 

[egelband]

I'm sorry but where is this Kreider/heartbeat of the team stuff coming from? He's never come across as that type of organizational leader to me.

It’s what I’ve been reading lately. I also didn’t know it. But that has been the narrative in the press lately. I have no reason to doubt it.

 

[egelband]

True. And he's gone after next season, you'd have to think.

We are entering dangerous territory where paying through the nose for "leadership" is being tossed around quite a lot.

If the fanbase is really all in on this rebuild, we need to take a leap of faith that this crop of youngsters will eventually evolve into leaders. They absolutely do not need to be overpaying Kreider into his 30's for this.

Most people who are for re-signing Kreider are specifying it be for shorter term; Like four or max five years. And if he wants longer he’ll have to leave. Very few are for a seven year deal.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Most people who are for re-signing Kreider are specifying it be for shorter term; Like four or max five years. And if he wants longer he’ll have to leave. Very few are for a seven year deal.

Well, at least it'll blow up this fake organizational leader narrative when he takes the most money/years being thrown at him.

Considering the Rangers suddenly tenuous cap situation, it seems like a no-brainer that Kreider will be traded at the deadline, but maybe thats just me.

 

[ZiGOODejad]

look at this situation think if he wasn’t on our team we would be trying to sign him this off season anyways. Wether it be shiny new toy or we look at his physical attributes he’s someone every team can use. That being said I wouldn’t give him a 6 year deal. 4 maybe 5.