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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX

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NYR Viper said:
If the Rangers have teams interested in Hayes, the smart thing to do is to see who can work out a contract with him prior to trading him. The return will be higher. To me, it's no surprise he started to be held out just after the New Year when, lo and behold, the team can start negotiating his new contract OR offer an opportunity to another team to begin negotiations with him.

For example:

What would a team like Buffalo give for Hayes as a rental?

What would a team like Buffalo give for a re-signed Hayes?
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Absolutely agree... that being said... IF that’s why he’s being held out then great as long as the NHL doesn’t see that as circumvention or even *gasp* COLLUSION.

The other scenario is there however.
 
GAGLine said:
It's the same thing we've all been saying. Gorton is going to make whatever moves he deems necessary to improve this team in the future, but the coaches and players are going to try to win every game, regardless of who is on the team. That's as it should be. If anyone from the coaches on down were actively trying to lose, I'd be worried. I don't even think Gorton is trying to lose. Rather, he's trying to maximize his assets and a losing team is a product of that.
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Agreed. As it should be.

You're not going to tell a first year coach who left a cushy college job to lose on purpose. You're also not going to tell a bunch of players, many playing for contracts or their nhl future, to lose.

And an owner can't come out and say "our best path forward is the top overall pick, so we're trying to secure that." That's not gonna go down well with the league.
 
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Hayes has proven himself. His value is established. The season is slipping away. They all have nagging issues. His are a little worse than most. No reason to push it and play when you can recuperate. This is one of those injuries that if it was the playoffs, we wouldn't even know about it and he'd play normal minutes.
 
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jas said:
ODC, correct me if I’m wrong, but I seem to recall you being very high on Andersson both going into the draft and after the selection. Have you changed your mind on him?
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no. its too early.

hes been disappointing so far and hasn't shown me any of what i thought he would bring.

he needs minutes and he needs talented wingers. i think he's got "it" and i think he will improve. kids got a huge heart and enormous drive. his talent level may not be "high end" but his will and effort are.

the skating thing is an issue. I've always been a huge proponent of wheels. if you can skate, you can play. to me, its more important than iq or hands. imo, the skating is the key to carving a career and hes weak there. he looks slower to me and less able to work in time and space.

he needs to get quicker and faster with his feet.

its still early, but so far, not impresses at all.
 
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I really don't think we're getting Cody Glass for Hayes. I mean anything is possible, but feels like we're setting ourselves up for disappointment by throwing him out there as a return.

Also - we need everything. There isn't a position on the ice we don't need. So I would take the best assets and really not target positions specifically.
 
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The “tanking” stuff is purely semantics. Of course they’re not losing games on purpose. Hank would rather chew his arms off than let someone just score on him. This is the same guy that gets mad when people beat him in practice.

So, sure, they’re not tanking. However, they’re icing a purposefully constructed roster that was built to fail and maintains the guise of competitiveness because of Hank, exciting young players, and some decent scoring veterans. It’s analagous to what the Knicks are doing right now, and I don’t believe for a second that Zion is just “that kid from Duke” to Dolan. The goal is to find that threshold where they don’t veer too far from being semi-competitive and icing trash like the 14-15 Sabres that would still be having ripple effects if it weren’t for Waddell giving them a 30-goal scorer for peanuts. The ROR trade was stupid too, and it was a direct result of an extremely good player hating the losing mentality and wanting out.

To the Hayes topic, am I the only one that thinks Vegas won’t be too big of buyers? GMGM has already expended a lot of trade capital in the Patches and Tatar deals, and their cupboard is pretty thin outside of Brånnstrom and Glass. They’re a competitive team, but thin, and will have a lot of expiring parts coming up soon. The good thing is that he’ll have an UFA attraction with the low-income tax and exciting team, but that glamor can only last so long when you’re unable to bring in your cost-controlled, drafted players.
 
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George McPhee traded Filip Forsberg for Martin Erat. Probably 40% of the reason he lost his job was because of that.

He is the Vegas GM.

He's not making the same mistake. (Yes I know Hayes is better than Erat but blue chip for rental).
 
Mac n Gs said:
The “tanking” stuff is purely semantics. Of course they’re not losing games on purpose. Hank would rather chew his arms off than let someone just score on him. This is the same guy that gets mad when people beat him in practice.

So, sure, they’re not tanking. However, they’re icing a purposefully constructed roster that was built to fail and maintains the guise of competitiveness because of Hank, exciting young players, and some decent scoring veterans. It’s analagous to what the Knicks are doing right now, and I don’t believe for a second that Zion is just “that kid from Duke” to Dolan. The goal is to find that threshold where they don’t veer too far from being semi-competitive and icing trash like the 14-15 Sabres that would still be having ripple effects if it weren’t for Waddell giving them a 30-goal scorer for peanuts. The ROR trade was stupid too, and it was a direct result of an extremely good player hating the losing mentality and wanting out.

To the Hayes topic, am I the only one that thinks Vegas won’t be too big of buyers? GMGM has already expended a lot of trade capital in the Patches and Tatar deals, and their cupboard is pretty thin outside of Brånnstrom and Glass. They’re a competitive team, but thin, and will have a lot of expiring parts coming up soon. The good thing is that he’ll have an UFA attraction with the low-income tax and exciting team, but that glamor can only last so long when you’re unable to bring in your cost-controlled, drafted players.
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In many ways, the early success experienced by Vegas is both a blessing and a curse.

It certainly helped them establish their brand identity immediately, and the timing was great for a city that really needed something to believe in.

On the downside, the early success is going to come at the cost of depth within their system. They had a hell of a 2017 draft on paper, but we'll what it actually produces.

Likewise, they're going to need a couple of strong follow-up drafts to really kick things into high gear. I'm not sure 2018 quite fit that bill, and so 2019 will be a fairly important draft for them.
 
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One thing is certain, we are getting very close to what will inevitably be the first of a few trades.

Tonight‘s game in Vegas may be the first where I’m not hanging on every goal, desperate for a W. However, I do not want to see Georgiev assaulted with 48 shots. Will pay particular attention to defense. The end is near for a few Blueshirts.
 
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Here's an interesting one:

Buffalo has St Louis's top-10 protected 1st in 2019. It would appear, that pick has a pretty good chance of sliding to 2020 as St Louis is not looking very good. Are they going to be better in 2020? Would the Rangers be able to get that pick back in part of the package for Hayes or Zuccarello? That would be a swing by Gorton trying to get another high pick in 2020
 
NYR Viper said:
How much is this Gorton or Clarke's fault then they went SO long without their top picks? Andersson is already showing to be a VERY good AHL player. He's 20. A year and a half from being drafted.

He also hasn't played in nearly as many games or the same minutes with the quality of linemates as many other rookies.

Not every player develops the same way or on the same timetable.

So lets say yu re-sign Hayes. What is your next order of business? You say clean up the defense. How so?
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good question.

at this point, this defense needs to be reconstructed. staal. smith and shatty need to go.

we don't have a true 1 pair. so, i would target at potential first pair type dman who is under 25 now or ready to breakout and look to make a hockey trade. you gotta give to get.

if its 13 or 93 or 20 or 76 that has to be included, so be it. we must find that defensive player who can anchor this defense.

the only players on defense i would keep are

76- 2nd pair
44-2/3 pair
77-2/3 pair
33-2/3 pair

the rest are moved for whatever we can get with retention if needed. the best rookie who's ready can make a move for a spot in camp.

we need to add one true defender who has 1st pair skills. hockey trade.

we find that guy by dangling those players above that i mentioned plus pick or prospects. there are teams with men ready to move up or with a young player ready to breakout. JG needs to get to work.

you build a team this way. defense. middle of the ice. goaltending.

I'm sorry, im not drinking the koolaide. the draft is a crap shoot and we aren't that good at it. i dont believe in this staff re. the draft.

our best players in the past have come from trades or fa signings .... think about it.

27
61
93
13
36
21
44
77

7 of our top 10 scorers right now are trades or fa's. only 3 were drafted by us. and only 20 is in the top 6 on that list.

that's awful
 
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draft less. trade more.

dont want more picks. i want players who can play.

no confidence in this staff and their (in)ability to draft difference makers.
 
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Edge said:
In many ways, the early success experienced by Vegas is both a blessing and a curse.

It certainly helped them establish their brand identity immediately, and the timing was great for a city that really needed something to believe in.

On the downside, the early success is going to come at the cost of depth within their system. They had a hell of a 2017 draft on paper, but we'll what it actually produces.

Likewise, they're going to need a couple of strong follow-up drafts to really kick things into high gear. I'm not sure 2018 quite fit that bill, and so 2019 will be a fairly important draft for them.
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Exactly, and they already dealt their next best forward in Suzuki for Patches. The Tatar deal was an extremely desperate, weird move value wise, and they’re already out two seconds next year as a result of their Tatar/Patches dealings. I don’t see them going another year without a first either unless they do something similar to the Hartman deal where they “buy” a young RFA.

That leaves us with Hague, Elvenes, and Morozov in a Hayes deal. Unless you’re getting two of those, it seems like an overall meh deal to me. I’m not a big fan of Lechyshyn, despite him being a key cog on Lethbridge after the trade with Regina.
 
Leetch3 said:
i'll take glass all day but have you seen our blueline? saying we don't need dmen is beyond laughable
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Hayes + Vesey

for

Brannstrom + rights to Gusev

Get it done. We aren't getting Cody Glass but Brannstrom is a great return. And we can send Vesey with his buddy so they can be bunk buddies in Vegas
 
Rangers holding Hayes like they held McDonagh. I anticipate we will not see Hayes in a blue sweater ever again.
 
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