Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVIV

[Igor Shestyorkin]

4,000 miles away sounds perfect - I like Buch on the right side of the Berlin wall as well.

You should learn some hockey lingo, good sir.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

4,000 miles away sounds perfect - I like Buch on the right side of the Berlin wall as well.

Technically, on the right side of the Berlin wall can be West Berlin

 

[Good Intentions]

I am one of Lias' biggest fans, but I am really disappointed in his behavior lately. With the way he handled this situation. But I can understand why he feels this way, without justifying it.

The behavior is so atypical of most Swedes. Is that fair to say? Makes it all the more puzzling to me.

Who is advising him??? These are not impulsive decisions. This was a calculated and timely declaration/demand.

 

[Good Intentions]

You should learn some hockey lingo, good sir.

Really? I thought my word play was fairly decent there...

 

[kovazub94]

Lias has been great in the years leading up to the draft. He was then solid in his D+1 season both with Frölunda and Hartford. Whatever led to him never taking that next step is up for debate. But to say he simply doesn't have the talent is just wrong in my opinion.

Did Yakupov not have any talent? Or Brendl? Sometimes players just don't take that next step. With Lias, there are factors that could have led to that. Did the Rangers bring him over too early? Was he given a fair chance under Quinn? Did he handle the demotion the right way?

What could the player or the organization have done differently? I like to look at these situations with a broader view, and try to understand both sides. I get why Quinn prefers Howden with the style of hockey he is used to. I understand Lias being frustrated for not getting a shot on the 3rd line after being better than Howden in pre-season (Not really turning this into a Howden vs Lias debate).

While this situation is bad for both sides, I refuse to jump to the conclusion that it's all set and done and Lias is now a bust who will never accomplish anything in the NHL. He is only 21. A lot can happen. Zuccarello only came over at age 23, only became an NHL regular at age 26. Drouin has gone through this situation wanting a trade. Players like Fox, Vesey, Kerfoot, Hayes, Butcher, Puljujarvi have either refused to sign with the team owning their rights or simply requested a trade. It happens more frequently recently for whatever reason.

Fans being upset with the situation is fine. I just don't want to simply blame one side for this. Quinn didn't give him a chance after a good pre-season, Lias didn't handle that well and let it affect his play. Are the front office and coaching staff on the same page regarding the prospects and development? It's something to at least discuss.

I am one of Lias' biggest fans, but I am really disappointed in his behavior lately. With the way he handled this situation. But I can understand why he feels this way, without justifying it.

I agree with you on two points:

Lias showed plenty of progress in his D+1 year for the Rangers fans to be satisfied that his development was on track (even @Kovalev27 posts were far and few in between and claims that Lias was a reach were also factually dismissed).
Andersson can still eventually become an effective NHLer, there are plenty of cases where development process hasn’t stopped well after 21.
Otherwise I refuse to blame Quinn for not giving him a chance as a reason for Lias’ underperformance. There should be absolutely no entitlement in a 20-21 year old prospect for it to be any kind of valid excuse.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Agreed that galchenyuk is a big risk but it's the rest of this year to see whether he can catch lightning or just don't resign him. He is only 26 and there is high end skill that he possesses. Maybe shift him to wing. Believe me I would be happy with a better return. I just don't believe Rangers want to drag this thing out. It's like a bad marriage and one of them has gown public

He's been playing wing for the Penguins, as far as I know.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The behavior is so atypical of most Swedes. Is that fair to say? Makes it all the more puzzling to me.

Who is advising him??? These are not impulsive decisions. This was a calculated and timely declaration/demand.

Puljujarvi isn't Swedish. Neither are Fox, Vesey, Hayes, Turris, Wheeler, Kerfoot, Butcher, Lindros. All of them forced their way off their team one way or another.

Jesper Fast never did this. And neither did Anton Strålman, or Mika Zibanejad, or Carl Hagelin.

It's not a Swedish thing.

 

[Good Intentions]

Puljujarvi isn't Swedish. Neither are Fox, Vesey, Hayes, Turris, Wheeler, Kerfoot, Butcher, Lindros. All of them forced their way off their team one way or another.

Jesper Fast never did this. And neither did Anton Strålman, or Mika Zibanejad, or Carl Hagelin.

It's not a Swedish thing.[/QUOTE

Puljujarvi isn't Swedish. Neither are Fox, Vesey, Hayes, Turris, Wheeler, Kerfoot, Butcher, Lindros. All of them forced their way off their team one way or another.

Jesper Fast never did this. And neither did Anton Strålman, or Mika Zibanejad, or Carl Hagelin.

It's not a Swedish thing.

I said atypical not typical...meaning this behavior is so out of line with Swedish culture and norms. Again, he was billed as the quintessential leader and team player - core Swedish traits.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I said atypical not typical...meaning this behavior is so out of line with Swedish culture and norms. Again, he was billed as the quintessential leader and team player - core Swedish traits.

I misread. Sorry

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Something in general the Rangers have to do for drafting/pro scouting is improve their due diligence and screening for scouting as some people have mentioned. Maybe ask different questions or additional psychological testing (without shock therapy lol...but there are open-ended questions and scenarios they can ask that will reveal a lot about the makeup of a kid).

I HATE HATE HATE using the "This is New York" excuse as some know on this board by other threads personality wise I don't have the NY in my DNA but I just happened to have been born here and work here and love my teams and always will and this place will always be in my blood even when I finally leave (Rangers/Giants/Mets and Knicks are cool too although I haven't watch NBA in about six year) but especially in the hockey culture, playing in this city or a Toronto is intense and not for everyone. Sometimes players indulge a little too much in the nightlife like Don Murdoch, become a celebrity like Duguay and Del Zotto (I'll talk about him in a second), have issues that are intensified with the easy access like a Derek Sanderson or Kevin Stevens. Other times athletes don't have the personalities for this place like a Lauri Korpikoski, Artem Anisimov (said he was happy to be on CBJ and appreciated his time in NY but won't miss it)or John Thompson from his brief trade deadline stint with the Mets in 2002, and we've seen star athletes who have won here crash and burn like LT/Doc Gooden.

The main point of my post and where JD needs to come in, is here are examples of players the Rangers have drafted who have had glaring character issues and why something needs to be done. And in this list I'm not talking about political opinions/numbskull immature things they did in juniors like a TDA or being a maniac on the ice like Lemiuex who both get along and are loved by their teammates, but character deficiencies:

1. Michael Del Zotto-I won't go into his personal stuff because it's all available via Google but let's just say New York for him and being in Teen Magazines wasn't a good fit with his personality

2. Ethan Werek-There's a reason he wasn't signed and traded. Discussed on this board. Major attitude issues. Thanks for helping get Lindberg and dealing with Expansion Draft 1.0

3. Evgeny Grachev-Not humble at all. Scored big and got a big head. Bad advice from his agent and like a recent draft pick thought he was better than he actually was.

4. JT Miller-He's having success in Vancouver and will probably top his 2017 season production wise. Larry Brooks hinted at his attitude and character issues a little. Why was he chased off two teams?

5. Robin Kovacs-Loose cannon. Immature and cocky in the wrong way. Another guy brought over too quickly.

6. Lias Anderson-Read the papers.

Look, maybe every team has a list like this, but that's six fairly high profile picks in various drafts. It's an issue and needs to be fixed.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Larry has reached the peak of stupidity with this latest hot take that makes the sun look like Hoth.

 

[LORDE]

The Rangers should give him a few weeks to think about what just happened and welcome him, and his new attitude, back to Hartford next year.

Wishful thinking, but it's probably what's best for everyone involved. I don't think he's in many NHL starting lineups from 1-31.

Love to think this may be possible but wow it’s hard for me to see my way to that outcome on both sides of the coin.

 

[Alluckks]

Consider the timing of Lias' request - everyone knows when the trade freeze is during the winter. I'm not so sure he even wants to be traded, but moreso wanted to send a message. I don't agree with the methods, but also aligns with a frustrated kid being loud. Lias has never had a problem letting his frustrations be known to an audience.

I'd prefer he not be traded unless he is asked for as a complimentary piece to facilitate a bigger deal. Otherwise, let him come to senses and work on his game and hopefully make a player of out of himself like we all hoped he would.

 

[bobbop]

He's been playing wing for the Penguins, as far as I know.

Galchenyuk has long ago proven he is a winger, not a center. That said, he played pretty well last year in Arizona. He played hurt because the team was so undermanned for much of the year and he was the Coyotes best offensive player. Of course people, that’s damning with faint praise but he really did look good.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Consider the timing of Lias' request - everyone knows when the trade freeze is during the winter. I'm not so sure he even wants to be traded, but moreso wanted to send a message. I don't agree with the methods, but also aligns with a frustrated kid being loud. Lias has never had a problem letting his frustrations be known to an audience.

I'd prefer he not be traded unless he is asked for as a complimentary piece to facilitate a bigger deal. Otherwise, let him come to senses and work on his game and hopefully make a player of out of himself like we all hoped he would.

I believe the request was made when he was sent down and then went public to force the issue.

 

[Avery16]

https://nypost.com/2019/12/24/rangers-may-have-botched-kevin-hayes-jacob-trouba-maneuverings/

the take is reactionary, but it isn’t wrong. Yet. He didn’t even include Heinola in the Trouba or Hayes equation.

 

[B17 Apricots]

Lias has been great in the years leading up to the draft. He was then solid in his D+1 season both with Frölunda and Hartford. Whatever led to him never taking that next step is up for debate. But to say he simply doesn't have the talent is just wrong in my opinion.

Did Yakupov not have any talent? Or Brendl? Sometimes players just don't take that next step. With Lias, there are factors that could have led to that. Did the Rangers bring him over too early? Was he given a fair chance under Quinn? Did he handle the demotion the right way?

What could the player or the organization have done differently? I like to look at these situations with a broader view, and try to understand both sides. I get why Quinn prefers Howden with the style of hockey he is used to. I understand Lias being frustrated for not getting a shot on the 3rd line after being better than Howden in pre-season (Not really turning this into a Howden vs Lias debate).

While this situation is bad for both sides, I refuse to jump to the conclusion that it's all set and done and Lias is now a bust who will never accomplish anything in the NHL. He is only 21. A lot can happen. Zuccarello only came over at age 23, only became an NHL regular at age 26. Drouin has gone through this situation wanting a trade. Players like Fox, Vesey, Kerfoot, Hayes, Butcher, Puljujarvi have either refused to sign with the team owning their rights or simply requested a trade. It happens more frequently recently for whatever reason.

Fans being upset with the situation is fine. I just don't want to simply blame one side for this. Quinn didn't give him a chance after a good pre-season, Lias didn't handle that well and let it affect his play. Are the front office and coaching staff on the same page regarding the prospects and development? It's something to at least discuss.

I am one of Lias' biggest fans, but I am really disappointed in his behavior lately. With the way he handled this situation. But I can understand why he feels this way, without justifying it.

I'm with ya, I try to get all sides. This is a dude that wants an opportunity to be an impact player in the NHL at this very moment, he doesn't think he's gonna get that chance at the moment. I can respect him taking his career in his own hands. I'm not a fan of the timing, he could've went down proved himself and got right back in there. At least one spot will open by the deadline... maybe you play out the year and go from there, but that what if game goes both ways. It's very easy to say those types of things. He could've went back down there proved himself again and right back to 10 minutes a night. Chytil went down there and was immediately inserted into the top 9, and deservingly so, but from Lias' perspective that's frustrating. Kravstov is here now what if he takes that top 9 spot by the deadline. In his eyes he wrongly wasn't giving one single opportunity so what is his path to minutes with this coach? People act like he didn't get the minutes because he lacks skill. Rereading some of Quinns stuff about ADA last year is very telling to me. A lot of incredibly similar vague nothing statements. The more time passes the more I wonder if there isn't a bit of a disconnect with his style. These are professionals at the highest level not college kids making it through school. I look at guys like Lias, ADA, Miller... how much of that is actual maturity issues and how much of that is playing with fire and a certain swagger. People like to say that with Miller, but we haven't actually heard one legitimate locker room issue for any of these guys. How much of that is coaches just not allowing these guys to play their game? How often was Miller in the dog house while other guys not held to the same standard? I never had a single issue when Miller was smashing his stick. A player with fire and emotion on a team full of pedestrians. Some players just don't mesh with certain coaches. I think in large part Gaborik was traded because of his problems with Torts who winded up getting fired that year for his issues with the players. Quinn literally admitted Lias could've benefitted from getting actual minutes. My biggest problem is when people watch what are they even looking for? I'd say the majority of the time I followed the guy I was often left saying you know what that's the right play. Certainly nothing that wowed me, certainly didn't do anything spectacular but he was a role player, it's that simple. You watch, you look at where his linemates are, you watch the defenders and you say what do you want the kid to do ? You can't force a play that isn't there... Aside for all the out of context hot takes he was a good prospect when he was drafted and hes a good prospect now it's just his mismanagement is unfortunate and this didn't appear over night, you have a kid that has probably been unengaged and demoralized for a while now

 

[B17 Apricots]

https://nypost.com/2019/12/24/rangers-may-have-botched-kevin-hayes-jacob-trouba-maneuverings/

the take is reactionary, but it isn’t wrong. Yet. He didn’t even include Heinola in the Trouba or Hayes equation.

One thing I'd add is while ADA, Pionk, Shatty, Fox all have a lot of skill, come playoff time when the games get tighter and more physical I think having a guy like Trouba really helps out a lot. Now if you had a bunch of big talented physical LHD to compliment those smaller skilled RHD than maybe Trouba becomes a bit more "unnecessary"

 

[egelband]

Development can wither pretty quick. It seems to many outsiders that Quinn doesn’t have Andersson in his plans. If that’s true (and there’s reason to think so based on his recent comments on Euro players) then it’s reason enough to want a shot somewhere else.

True. But if it’s really true Quinn doesn’t want him, then you’d think a quiet word to management would be enough to get a trade happening. Going public reeks of temper tantrum.

 

[egelband]

I agree with you here, Chytil's play is much better than his stat line and the sky is the limit for him. I like Howden but in your context as a 4th line center. You gotta hope Strome goes but Im not sure he goes at the deadline unless the offer is very good. Rangers need to make some moves to bring in depth at the wings, you cant start trading Krieder, Strome, Fast, and Andersson without having guys to take their spots. I hope Fast stays were gonna need to expose someone in the expansion draft.

I would like to see Gorton turn some of our defensive prospects into forward prospects.

Carolina has a pretty decent prospect pool and can make a move.
I believe the Rangers liked Gauthier. He has size, can skate and shoot, not much playmaking but I see him being able to be a good 3rd liner.

Boston you have Fredric and Lauko, Fredric would also make for a nice 4th line center, dont see much upside but can add some grit which we need and a north-south style of play

Colorado has Jost hes a guy that can move up and down lines, hasnt lived up to the draft position, another guy who hasnt and is talked about alot here is Bennett. I wouldn't mind adding either of these guys but costs will be important as they arent must have players. Ideally both are 3rd liners that can move up if needed.

Bolded part is quite interesting. Might have to happen. If it did, who would be suited and theoretically “expendable” from the back line? I think Miller is probably quite well-suited to forward but he’s definitely more valuable to the organization as a defenseman. Maybe a smaller defenseman, though, would be a candidate to change position.
All that said, probably more sensible to just trade a guy than to Try to change his game so dramatically.

 

[egelband]

Tolvanen has a better shot, though he is small. I just wonder what the chances of trading with Winnipeg again are.

Why wouldn’t Winnipeg want to trade with us? Apparently they fleeced is last time...

 

[egelband]

the myth of lias' preseason play has grown to laughable measures. against a bunch of non-nhlers he elevated his game from 'looks like a bust' to 'maybe he figured it out this summer'. he never earned anything, and the idea that he should have just been handed ice time over a few preseason games is his biggest problem.

his lack of ice time is always the excuse, but other guys have played limited minutes on the 4th line and lias did the least with those minutes out of all of them. and lets also so ignoring the fact that he went to the AHL against lesser competition and did little. he could have gone down there and proven quinn wrong but he didn't

Yes. And fourth line in the NHL is hardly a death sentence. Go out there and make stuff happen. Do your job. When you’re up against fourth or third liners, outplay them. When you go up against top and second liners, shut them down. I mean, look at his shifts. Was he consistently a positive? If so, any coach would want more not less. (Unless we’re buying the idea that the coach had it out for him and sabotaged his career for some reason). Did anyone see Lias ever impose his will on a shift? Totally appreciate he wasn’t put in a “can’t possibly fail” position. But he wasn’t exiled to Siberia either. He played a lot in front of a lot of eyes and really didn’t leave a mark. At least with other guys there’s a spark, a hint... Even with John Gilmore you say, wow, he’s fast. He can get the puck up the ice. He’s noticeable. With Lettieri, wow, dude can shoot. Yes they’re flawed players, but they have some signature. Lias just doesn’t seem to have that. We all were like, maybe he’ll become a solid 3C with extreme leadership and tenacity but, but... Again, maybe I’m just missing it. And I hope I am.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

https://nypost.com/2019/12/24/rangers-may-have-botched-kevin-hayes-jacob-trouba-maneuverings/

the take is reactionary, but it isn’t wrong. Yet. He didn’t even include Heinola in the Trouba or Hayes equation.

I'm not paying Kevin Hayes 7 mill for 7 years, dont care what he looked like the other night. As much as people crap on Trouba he is the only player we have that can match up against other teams top lines, that's a tough assignment and you are gonna get beat when you play against the best from time to time, it happens. People here are too reactionary, Brooks is a troll who knows little about building a hockey team if he thinks we should have gone into this season with Pionk as our top shutdown guy instead of Trouba. Its nonsense.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

With Lias, I have a feeling he will still be here until the deadline and if he is traded there he will be an add on to a trade like Raanta was with Stepan.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Also, how much longer can the organization leave Staal on the ice? He is a momentum killer as he consistantly reverses the play instead of moving the puck quickly. It's time to face reality with him, he is a great guy but he cant see well enough, his puck moving has become laughable, and his go to move is to pin it against the wall.
Think about this....
How much better were we when Strome Panarin and Fast were a line? Why has that not been revisited? How much better were we when Staal was out and Hajek was playing instead? And finally, maybe we need to split up Mika and Panarin on different powerplays? They both want the same ice, so make two solid pp's and hopefully catch a teams 2nd unit off guard. Maybe use the same group as last year on one make it the 2nd unit, zib, Buch, Kreider and then Panarin Strome Kakko. Makes sense to me.