Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVII What will Santa Gorton bring us?

[McRanger]

Fixed it for you

Not sure if you were kidding but you actually did. That was a typo.

 

[17futurecap]

Smith should go on waivers the day before the deadline to see if anyone bites, no one will, then put him in Hartford and give one of the kids his spot for the last 20 or whatever games.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

We have to deal hayes so we show we are not comfortable with our usual mediocrity. We need 2 or 3 point a game players if we are to be a cup team in this league now. We have too many 50-60 point guys kicking around and they arent 20 year olds, Hayes and Zuc on expiring contracts have to be dealt or we arent going to be better going forward. They are both good players, and Hayes appears to be in his prime but they dont fit into the long term goals of this team.

 

[True Blue]

Don't see why they'd try to move Shatty anyway.

Because there is no need for him on a rebuilding team. And then he is certainly not a part of the mid to long term future.

 

[effen]

Can't re-sign Hayes for the simple reason that if they do, they can't sign anyone better than Hayes for 3 years. Cap won't let em.

That's a disaster.

 

[LORDE]

Smith should go on waivers the day before the deadline to see if anyone bites, no one will, then put him in Hartford and give one of the kids his spot for the last 20 or whatever games.

May be their plan exactly if he's still stinkin it up.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Can't re-sign Hayes for the simple reason that if they do, they can't sign anyone better than Hayes for 3 years. Cap won't let em.

That's a disaster.

Shattenkirk is movable, a buyout of Smith or Staal wouldn't be too bad long-term, Zucc will probably be gone. I don't really see it.

I think the strongest argument in favor of moving Hayes is making sure we're not stuck in that dead zone of being like the 8th-15th worst team in the league, which is also why I don't want a huge contract for Panarin - but I'd rather have both than just one of them

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Shattenkirk is movable, a buyout of Smith or Staal wouldn't be too bad long-term, Zucc will probably be gone. I don't really see it.

I think the strongest argument in favor of moving Hayes is making sure we're not stuck in that dead zone of being like the 8th-15th worst team in the league, which is also why I don't want a huge contract for Panarin - but I'd rather have both than just one of them

Dead zone is more like 12-17.

Winnipeg built most of their team with picks in the 7-10 range.

I’d like to move Hayes and Zucc soon to give us a little kick start to 1-5 territory, but our FO doesn’t believe in that.

 

[Avery16]

We aren’t tanking. There’s zero intention of doing that at all.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If you aren’t going to keep those guys 2 months from now, why not move them now?

If the market isn’t there it isn’t there, but we’ve seen a pretty high volume of moves already, some major.

 

[Avery16]

Why are the Kings so bad

 

[effen]

Shattenkirk is movable, a buyout of Smith or Staal wouldn't be too bad long-term, Zucc will probably be gone. I don't really see it.

I think the strongest argument in favor of moving Hayes is making sure we're not stuck in that dead zone of being like the 8th-15th worst team in the league, which is also why I don't want a huge contract for Panarin - but I'd rather have both than just one of them

Already 4.5M dead next year. Team has 20M free with Buch/ADA/Pionk all up for RFA deals and letting the #2C and a top line wing go with no clear internal replacements at this stage. Even if you bridge all 3 thats 7.5M, Hayes will clock in at 6-6.5, thats not enough to sign anyone better than Hayes. Year after THAT like 5 forwards go UFA, thats another 20M but Kreider is in there and again our replacements other than Kravstov are already up with the big club.

Less money than you think, even less with Hayes. Going year to year to make it work is what you do when you're the Blackhawks in the midst of their run, not a bottom feeder.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

If you aren’t going to keep those guys 2 months from now, why not move them now?

If the market isn’t there it isn’t there, but we’ve seen a pretty high volume of moves already, some major.

I feel like the trades that have been made are mostly struggling teams trying to fight the course of their season or just swapping parts, Hayes/Zucc are more of addition to something already solid type trades to me

 

[BBKers]

Would like to see this whilst we build up some trade value

Kreider-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Chytil-Hayes-Zuccarello
Namestnikov-Howden-Strome
Vesey-Andersson-Fast

Bellesky/McLeod

 

[DutchShamrock]

If you aren’t going to keep those guys 2 months from now, why not move them now?

If the market isn’t there it isn’t there, but we’ve seen a pretty high volume of moves already, some major.

Definitely more active this season. I think teams are shifting towards early integration. Get the players gelling. Jump the market.

But on the other hand, when the ask is 1st round picks... struggling teams out of the playoff picture probably aren't paying that price.

 

[Leetch3]

If you aren’t going to keep those guys 2 months from now, why not move them now?

If the market isn’t there it isn’t there, but we’ve seen a pretty high volume of moves already, some major.

IMO if JG could get the return he was looking for today he’d make the moves. But he’s not going to deal them just for the sake of moving them. Offers will go up as the deadline gets near

 

[Tawnos]

If you aren’t going to keep those guys 2 months from now, why not move them now?

If the market isn’t there it isn’t there, but we’ve seen a pretty high volume of moves already, some major.

The trading deadline is almost 3 months from now. 3 months is an eternity in the evolution of a trade market.

 

[Mikos87]

Smith should go on waivers the day before the deadline to see if anyone bites, no one will, then put him in Hartford and give one of the kids his spot for the last 20 or whatever games.

I'd do it if the kids earn the call-up. To me, there were two games this year where Smith cost the team points through sheer stupidity. The Detroit game, and the WPG game. He's been good in some others, but the lack of on ice awareness- I mean come the f*** on.

 

[Mikos87]

Why are the Kings so bad

Last year they had their 3 core players, Kopitar, Doughty, & Quick play like they are the best in their position for long stretches, had surprising contribution from Brown. You take all of those things away, and the fact that they can't seem to develop prospects the way they were able to back in the day, you get the results that you have.

They are still paying for the Lucic deal, which is really hurting them now, and while they are able to identify NHL level skaters through college, they don't play them the minutes to see if they can sink or swim. The development curves on their guys are very long, especially for bottom of the line up players. Something changed, they used to be really good at injecting nondescript guys into roles.

Add to the fact their defense is not the most mobile, and they aren't playing Sutter hockey any more, you have a lot more holes on the ice product.

 

[egelband]

We aren’t tanking. There’s zero intention of doing that at all.

Agree. And even if they wanted to tank...how is that done?
They’re going to move the guys who aren’t part of the next wave and hope to get max value. The only one who’s really a question is Hayes.
The rest of the late-20s-and-up guys will go if a deal is out there. (Aside from Kreider). That’s more-or-less how it’s going to go. If not, I think it’ll be a big surprise.

 

[Kupo]

Would like to see this whilst we build up some trade value

Kreider-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Chytil-Hayes-Zuccarello
Namestnikov-Howden-Strome
Vesey-Andersson-Fast

Bellesky/McLeod

Replace Andersson for Strome and I’m game. Andersson needs to start playing a few more minutes.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Would like to see this whilst we build up some trade value

Kreider-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Chytil-Hayes-Zuccarello
Namestnikov-Howden-Strome
Vesey-Andersson-Fast

Bellesky/McLeod

It's funny you know that lineup doesnt look that bad, if it were me I'd leave kreider with hayes and chytil and put zuc with Buch and Zibby. Nitpicking though.

 

[Ola]

Why are the Kings so bad

They aren’t tanking...

Seriously though — I’ve said this for the last 2-3 years, right now kids/the youth is good in this league. Trading a vet for a kid just don’t make you worse, very rarely at least.

What work is when you get that very high paced and dynamic offensive game. You can’t be controlled, the opponents are rattled and get out of their confort zone and it takes a lot to get out on top. The kids can facilitate that style, push it in the right direction, the vets can’t. AINEC.

I remember writing like half a year ago something along the line that I wouldn’t even want Eric Staal for free, he was like scoring 40 goals at the time. Many said that it was ridiculous, maybe it was/is — but the thing is, I don’t think it’s a baseless statement. That style that Eric Staal plays, Jeff Carter and co plays, it’s not even remotely functional. Then of course you could take someone out of date like that and make it work in the right environment. So it was probably a ridiculous statement...

But you get my point.

I would definitely say that we are tanking. We have traded a ton of roster players for picks, mostly futures. McD, Nash, Step, Miller and a bunch of others for picks and prospects. We are taking on bad contracts, Belesky. It might not be tanking that is deadset to get a FOA pick, but really per definition we are definitely not caring about getting worse now in favor of getting better later and that is tanking for me. Problem is that the kids maybe are making us a bit too good...

 

[Fitzy]

No one will take Smith on waivers.

You can try to package him with one of the rentals I suppose, but I'm not sure what the point would be since you'd take off return value. I don't anticipate NYR having cap problems the next two seasons unless they really do sign Panarin.

Once Zucc and maybe Shattenkirk are gone this team will have a very light payroll. Girardi's buyout cap hit drops 2.5 million at the end of this year too. Strome has been an improvement on Spooner (Who is gonna be in the KHL in two years) but he's not a lock to stay long term either.

 

[Avery16]

They aren’t tanking...

Seriously though — I’ve said this for the last 2-3 years, right now kids/the youth is good in this league. Trading a vet for a kid just don’t make you worse, very rarely at least.

What work is when you get that very high paced and dynamic offensive game. You can’t be controlled, the opponents are rattled and get out of their confort zone and it takes a lot to get out on top. The kids can facilitate that style, push it in the right direction, the vets can’t. AINEC.

I remember writing like half a year ago something along the line that I wouldn’t even want Eric Staal for free, he was like scoring 40 goals at the time. Many said that it was ridiculous, maybe it was/is — but the thing is, I don’t think it’s a baseless statement. That style that Eric Staal plays, Jeff Carter and co plays, it’s not even remotely functional. Then of course you could take someone out of date like that and make it work in the right environment. So it was probably a ridiculous statement...

But you get my point.

I would definitely say that we are tanking. We have traded a ton of roster players for picks, mostly futures. McD, Nash, Step, Miller and a bunch of others for picks and prospects. We are taking on bad contracts, Belesky. It might not be tanking that is deadset to get a FOA pick, but really per definition we are definitely not caring about getting worse now in favor of getting better later and that is tanking for me. Problem is that the kids maybe are making us a bit too good...

Without taking this down in great detail, there’s a difference between a strategic rebuild and a tank. We are rebuilding, no doubt. We are not tanking.