Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVII - Want some, get some

[eco's bones]

Talbot was 26 years old when he played his first NHL game. Raanta was 24. That Rangers team that Talbot first played for was a veteran team that expected to make the playoffs every year--a strong sometimes very strong team. Raanta ditto with the Blackhawks. Georgiev plays his first NHL at 21 for a team that's just divested itself of many of its key players like McDonagh and Nash. Not a strong team--a very weak team and last year's team wasn't a strong team either. He manages to have a winning record and a good save % anyway as a 22 year old. I really don't care for the comparison of Alex to Talbot or Raanta just because they were all undrafted. Talbot is a lot bigger than Georgiev besides. I think Alex is and will be a better goalie than either of those other two--though they are good goalies.

Valiquette has been pointing out that Alex does not give up clear sighted goals. He's also as good as it gets in getting to shots where the pass has crossed the slot to a one timer shooter on the opposite side. He can be bombarded without getting rattled. Henrik would lose his cool before he would and he's picked up Henrik's work ethic. Henrik is playing well but he's playing better.

 

[Anzi]

I was in the Jack Drury camp, but yes I think it baffled everyone.

Wasn't the word that BA was the one pushing for Lindbom?

They word was that BA was excited when they made the pick but I doubt that he asked them to pick him at that spot.

 

[howztheglass]

Crazy thought what about packaging Kreider and Georgiev.

Calgary
Edmonton
Carolina

A few more--possible Toronto/ Arz/ Columbus

All could become possibilities.

All of these clubs are looking for a scorer and some a better back up if not potential starter.

Not that I want to trade Georgiev--personal I would love for Hank to ask to go to a contender but that's not happening let's try to maximize his and CK value.

 

[nyr2k2]

I was in the Jack Drury camp, but yes I think it baffled everyone.

Wasn't the word that BA was the one pushing for Lindbom?

I remember reading that the Lindbom pick was one the Benny was really happy with, but I don't recall anything specific saying he pushed for it. If they did draft him because of Allaire that absurd, as the goalies we have drafted in the last 15 years are all trash.

 

[Anzi]

Georgiev was 10th in the league in goals saved over expectation last year and he's currently 4th this season behind Hellebuyck, Kuemper, and Bishop. Still not a huge sample size but not that small either. He's definitely starter material in my eyes and potentially a very good one too. Could Igor be better? Possibly but I don't want to bet on it.

 

[nyr2k2]

Crazy thought what about packaging Kreider and Georgiev.

Calgary
Edmonton
Carolina

A few more--possible Toronto/ Arz/ Columbus

All could become possibilities.

All of these clubs are looking for a scorer and some a better back up if not potential starter.

Not that I want to trade Georgiev--personal I would love for Hank to ask to go to a contender but that's not happening let's try to maximize his and CK value.

I always feel like packaging guys together, you get a lesser return. Each guy added makes it harder to "balance" the deal and everyone ends up being dissatisfied. Like it sounds as if we may have been better off had we spun McDonagh and Miller separately. We wanted Hajek, so they asked for Miller, so we asked for Namestnikov, or however it was reported to have played out.

IDK, I just feel like it's better to do separate deals if you can.

 

[duhmetreE]

Would Detroit really move Zadina?

 

[Synergy27]

Georgiev was 10th in the league in goals saved over expectation last year and he's currently 4th this season behind Hellebuyck, Kuemper, and Bishop. Still not a huge sample size but not that small either. He's definitely starter material in my eyes and potentially a very good one too. Could Igor be better? Possibly but I don't want to bet on it.

I’m starting to agree with this. Shesty seems like a shoe in to be great, but wouldn’t we all be happy if he turned out to be as good as Georgiev is now? Bird in the hand and all that.

I assume Shesty fetches even less on the trade market than Georgiev?

 

[bobbop]

I know it’s kind of sacrilegious but a Hank buyout?

Business can be cold.

(that would be really cold)

 

[Fitzy]

I remember reading that the Lindbom pick was one the Benny was really happy with, but I don't recall anything specific saying he pushed for it. If they did draft him because of Allaire that absurd, as the goalies we have drafted in the last 15 years are all trash.

We have a 2nd round goalie pick curse. Started with Lafleur

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I know it’s kind of sacrilegious but a Hank buyout?

Business can be cold.

(that would be really cold)

I don't see that happening. Ever.

 

[duhmetreE]

I know it’s kind of sacrilegious but a Hank buyout?

Business can be cold.

(that would be really cold)

Better chance of him retiring. Don't see that either

 

[I Eat Crow]

I know it’s kind of sacrilegious but a Hank buyout?

Business can be cold.

(that would be really cold)

I think it's far more likely that he "retires" and signs with Frolunda to close out his playing career if he does not agree to a trade this summer.

 

[egelband]

The one thing I think about though in regard to our goaltending is if someone like Rask or Grubauer went down with a season ending injury and their teams came to us in desperate need of a goaltender to save their season because really I'm not moving Alex (or Igor) without getting a really great return and a late 1st rounder ain't enough or at least not enough for Alex.

Excellent point. If the starting goalie on any playoff team is injured, I’d expect JG gets a call.
I’d also add that having a “goalie glut” is a “good problem” - of course - but also the other GMs knowing the Rangers “have to” move a goalie isn’t necessarily a bad thing from an optics perspective. It puts the Rangers in a perceived “corner” but it also allows the other teams to swarm as opposed to Gorton having to “sell door-to-door” so to speak.

 

[NYR Viper]

I wonder if Hank discusses with Gorton the possibility of him waiving his NMC at next years deadline. What would the team do then? Do they keep Shestyorkin in the AHL for another 3/4 of a season?

I'll say it again, if the Rangers feel confident they can sign Wall out of the NCAA I'm more comfortable trading Georgiev.

 

[LeetchisGod]

I always feel like packaging guys together, you get a lesser return. Each guy added makes it harder to "balance" the deal and everyone ends up being dissatisfied. Like it sounds as if we may have been better off had we spun McDonagh and Miller separately. We wanted Hajek, so they asked for Miller, so we asked for Namestnikov, or however it was reported to have played out.

IDK, I just feel like it's better to do separate deals if you can.

Have to agree. I've been underwhelmed with that return so far.

 

[egelband]

How do we move on from the past? Hank has another year left on his contract. Georgiev will be waiver eligible after he plays another 3 games. Shesty needs to play in the NHL so we can properly evaluate him.

That's 3 goalies who all need to play NHL games. Barring injury, how do we accomplish that? Are we carrying 3 goalies and rotating them all? Are we buying out Hank? Do we pressure him to accept a trade? Do we keep Shesty in the AHL all of next year?

If we trade Georgiev before we know for sure that Shesty can be a #1 at this level, then we run the risk of not having any starting goalie 2 years from now if Shesty flames out. If we trade Shesty before he proves himself, we won't get much in return and he could then turn out to be a steal for the other team.

There's just a lot of bad options here. My ideal scenario is that we have both Georgiev and Shesty as 1a/1b for a long time. I just don't know how we get there.

I don’t see waiting out one more year of Henrik as being that big a deal. The Rangers have a lot of leverage and it’s just one more year.
What I might do, though, is actually trade Georgiev at max value (assuming it’s on the table) and have Henrik and Igor share the position next year. There are a few prospects who may step up to be backup or Henrik comes back for a year on an expansion draft-exposable deal.

 

[egelband]

They will never buy out hank.

Agreed. Nor should they, really. I don’t see three goalies for one more year as a huge concern. Injuries happen. And worst case they can split up the duties three ways.
I’d still move Georgiev if they could get a good deal, particularly if he could be packaged with, say, Kreider, for a nice forward and a first rounder.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Have to agree. I've been underwhelmed with that return so far.

So far the best piece of that whole deal has been the pick that allowed us to draft Lundkvist.

 

[Lion Hound]

Well said 2K2. Gorton might have been holding out for a 1st last deadline - then this summer - and now. If it's not there, you can't fault him. Every deadline is different.

Hayes brought back a 1st + Lemieux because Centers are obviously valued more. Market's different for wingers.

Worst case scenario imo, a 2nd + solid prospect, similar to what Grabner got a few years ago. Once Hall is moved, I think the value on CK jumps a bit, hopefully in the 1st + ballpark.

Grabner was 2 years older, and 3rd-4th line Penalty killing winger at the time. Kreider is a top 6 guy with size and speed who can play a heavier game. Anything less then a first and prospect or the equivalent in a younger roster player is a fail.

 

[egelband]

I think we are looking at this from our perspective as an organization who has has consistently very good goaltending for ~14 years. Teams looking to compete, like Calgary, Edmonton and Carolina will be on the lookout for someone. San Jose was in the same boat prior to needing/wanting to trade for Jones. If you have lived through years of mediocre or bad goaltending your viewpoint may change

Hah. Good point. Indeed. Kind of like how we Rangers fans pine for a great shooter.

 

[Lion Hound]

Hard to call it a fail when you don't know the market. Other teams could see a big guy whose whole game is based on speed who may have lost a half-step (and is having a down year), and decide he's purely a rental. If that's the case you get a Zuccarello-type deal with lots of conditions. I can absolutely see that being a real possibility, particularly because he's not exactly playing lights-out. And I can seeing him hitting free agency and getting no offer longer than five years, because teams are scared of him deteriorating rapidly.

I want a first back, too, but if no one offers it then you have to take the best you can get. And that's not JG's fault.

Good GM's get deals done. I believe Gorton to be a good GM. He has a very legit trading chip leading into the deadline. He also backed himself into a corner via a boughtout #22. The market is wide open. He just has to get the job done.

Then again, team continues on the winning trend and this could all be a mute point.

 

[charliemurphy]

Crazy thought what about packaging Kreider and Georgiev.

Calgary
Edmonton
Carolina

A few more--possible Toronto/ Arz/ Columbus

All could become possibilities.

All of these clubs are looking for a scorer and some a better back up if not potential starter.

Not that I want to trade Georgiev--personal I would love for Hank to ask to go to a contender but that's not happening let's try to maximize his and CK value.

I see this or a similar deal as likely to happen wherein Georgiev goes along with Kreider (or whoever else Gorton has on the table) in a multi-player and pick deal... similar to Stepan/Raanta to AZ for 7th OA and DeAngelo in 17.

 

[egelband]

Hard to call it a fail when you don't know the market. Other teams could see a big guy whose whole game is based on speed who may have lost a half-step (and is having a down year), and decide he's purely a rental. If that's the case you get a Zuccarello-type deal with lots of conditions. I can absolutely see that being a real possibility, particularly because he's not exactly playing lights-out. And I can seeing him hitting free agency and getting no offer longer than five years, because teams are scared of him deteriorating rapidly.

I want a first back, too, but if no one offers it then you have to take the best you can get. And that's not JG's fault.

Yep. And I don’t think anyone was offering a first last summer or at the last deadline.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I’m expecting Kreider to bring back a package similar to Hayes. If it doesn’t include a 1st, then the player/prospect coming back better be good.

If Kreider brings back a package similar to Zucc (not including conditions), we have every right to be upset at Gorton.

He’s known for a while he wasn’t going to re-sign Kreider, and has had other opportunities to move him.

That’s what these guys get paid to do, have some foresight the rest of us normies don’t