Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVII - Want some, get some

[LaffyTaffy]

Jones was 24
Lehner was 23
Andersen was 25

So pretty close...

In that case maybe a 1st is possible

 

[Mac n Gs]

Studnicka is a name that's come up multiple times in the past when discussing Nash, Hayes and Kreider.

Thus far, it's not materialized. I would assume the interest is still there, but I don't know if I see the end result changing.

I just can't see Boston trading their top C prospect with Bergeron and Krejci progressively racking up more and more injuries. They each only have 2 and 3 years, respectively, left on their deals, and there's really no C prospects in sight for them to replace the workload by these guys. We saw just how good Studnicka can be in his first game against us, and I can't imagine he won't lock in their 2C/3C spot in a year or so with Coyle shifting to the wing.

 

[Edge]

I just can't see Boston trading their top C prospect with Bergeron and Krejci progressively racking up more and more injuries. They each only have 2 and 3 years, respectively, left on their deals, and there's really no C prospects in sight for them to replace the workload by these guys. We saw just how good Studnicka can be in his first game against us, and I can't imagine he won't lock in their 2C/3C spot in a year or so with Coyle shifting to the wing.

Yeah, I think that ship has sailed, assuming it ever left the dock.

 

[eco's bones]

I do not believe any deadline deals will be predicated on whether we're in the playoff hunt or not -- I do not see management making "go for it" (playoffs) moves....I see them sticking to "the plan."

I also don't think we'll see this team "fall apart", but come crunch time, I don't see us holding up as well as the other "contenders" when the games begin to tighten up. Right now, it's a 4 team race to reach the last spot....out of those 4 teams (Bolts, Habs, Laughs and us), I can't see us beating out TB. I also think the Habs will right the ship. One never knows what the Laughs will do....and I'm not counting out Columbus as yet.

Apart from moving Kreider which would be for younger assets coming back I don't think I said anything about other deadline deals particularly to bring in vets or rentals. I think I would be very much against that approach and IMO moving Georgiev is moving a young goalie who is increasingly showing more upside for ? just to make room for an elite prospect--something that there is no imperative for us to do. It's more than arguable that Georgiev will be as good or maybe even a better goalie in the long run than Igor. He just never had the same fanfare.....was a guy running under the radar.

Moving Kreider really is about 1) not having the cap space to re-sign and 2) not wanting to sign him to a long term deal and 3) to continue to build a younger team via prospects and picks.

As for the competition--Toronto has cap and depth issues but I would expect them to make the playoffs. Tampa should make the playoffs. I don't think the Montreal Canadiens are a very good team. I wouldn't be surprised either if Pittsburgh starts to drop. Still the Rangers are pro-rating what they're pro-rating and whether or not we garner a playoff spot if the team continues to play like it has their chance is realistic--if somehow they start playing better then more realistic. I expect if the Rangers continue to hang around that Gorton will still move Kreider but maybe not Strome who is an upcoming RFA in the offseason. Again no trades for vets or rentals necessary. We go with what we got.

 

[RGY]

Its a small thread, there was zero chance you weren't going to see this. No ones hiding anything and no one is afraid of you or anyone else on a hfboards thread. Ease up and take a lighthearted joke once in a while. Also, gender doesn't mean squat.

Never said anyone was afraid of me. Be a man or be a woman, don’t care about gender, and have the guts to quote. Again, its cowardly.

Moving on.

 

[Ola]

Want nothing to do with AA. Guy doesn’t defend at all. Last thing we need.

Georgiev is an rfa as well. Something to think about. I guess we could do what we did with Lemieux and Tony. Bridge him to a 1 million dollar contract until hanks contract expires. We could ask Shesterkin to wait another year in Hartford or the KHL. But that’s a big ask.

just a really tough call here.

Yeah, and I mean, this by far the biggest reason to trade him. If GEO is keeps playing really well for another year and a half -- he is a 6-7m goalie, at least.

Like we have discussed the pros of cons of investing a lot in a goalie -- most likely we would do the same in the very near future with Geo.

The option could be to give him a long-term deal THIS summer worth maybe 5m per, which would be good if he turned into a top goalie in the world. But are we ready to do that?

If we bridge him this summer its lose/lose. No upside. If he sucks we should have traded him. If he is great, he will cost us 8m per.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Yeah, and I mean, this by far the biggest reason to trade him. If GEO is keeps playing really well for another year and a half -- he is a 6-7m goalie, at least.

Like we have discussed the pros of cons of investing a lot in a goalie -- most likely we would do the same in the very near future with Geo.

The option could be to give him a long-term deal THIS summer worth maybe 5m per, which would be good if he turned into a top goalie in the world. But are we ready to do that?

If we bridge him this summer its lose/lose. No upside. If he sucks we should have traded him. If he is great, he will cost us 8m per.

Never invest in a goalie unless he's proven to be consistently elite. And even then, how are the Price/Bobrovsky contracts looking right now? The best goalies in the league this season so far are Hellebuyck and Kuemper. Lehner, Greiss. Goalies explode out of nowhere and go away just as fast, as long as you're not getting stuck with one you can usually get by.

If we don't trade Geo at any point we should just bridge him until UFA (maybe include 1 UFA year in his last deal) and then trade him/let him walk in the final year.

 

[I Eat Crow]

The days of goalies getting dealt for first rounders is over, I think. The rental market had also reset to be more of a buyer's market the past few years. Unless the rental is an absolute top echelon player, the best you're going to do is a 2nd rounder and a prospect.

Centers and defensemen hold the most value at the deadline. Hayes got a 1st and Lemieux because he's a center. I don't think Kreider will get the same return. I'd be surprised if Kreider netted a 1st. He'd have to be packaged with Fast or another prospect to net us a 1st, IMO. Otherwise I think he's getting a 2nd and a bottom six forward or decent prospect.

Unless someone blows Gorton's doors off with an offer for Georgiev, I'm leaning towards signing him to an extension. His worth to the team is greater than what he'd return in a trade, which I would estimate is the Talbot return (2nd, 3rd, late pick or throwaway prospect). Would a team like Calgary, Edmonton, LA (if they deal Quick), Colorado, or Carolina cough up a 1st for him? Time will tell.

 

[Chytilmania]

What about Frederic from Boston? Seems like a guy Gorton would want. Not sure what his upside is but would love seeing him and Lemieux together.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

2 1sts and your best prospect or no deal for Georgie.

 

[NYR Viper]

The days of goalies getting dealt for first rounders is over, I think. The rental market had also reset to be more of a buyer's market the past few years. Unless the rental is an absolute top echelon player, the best you're going to do is a 2nd rounder and a prospect.

Centers and defensemen hold the most value at the deadline. Hayes got a 1st and Lemieux because he's a center. I don't think Kreider will get the same return. I'd be surprised if Kreider netted a 1st. He'd have to be packaged with Fast or another prospect to net us a 1st, IMO. Otherwise I think he's getting a 2nd and a bottom six forward or decent prospect.

Unless someone blows Gorton's doors off with an offer for Georgiev, I'm leaning towards signing him to an extension. His worth to the team is greater than what he'd return in a trade, which I would estimate is the Talbot return (2nd, 3rd, late pick or throwaway prospect). Would a team like Calgary, Edmonton, LA (if they deal Quick), Colorado, or Carolina cough up a 1st for him? Time will tell.

I think we are looking at this from our perspective as an organization who has has consistently very good goaltending for ~14 years. Teams looking to compete, like Calgary, Edmonton and Carolina will be on the lookout for someone. San Jose was in the same boat prior to needing/wanting to trade for Jones. If you have lived through years of mediocre or bad goaltending your viewpoint may change

 

[Fitzy]

The expansion draft is not an issue. Georgiev can be protected and Sherstykin is exempt.

Is there no rule that we need to expose a goalie?

 

[Irishguy42]

Is there no rule that we need to expose a goalie?

They can sign a UFA goalie in the next season to expose. Nothing against doing that.

 

[Lion Hound]

If #20 is moved at the deadline, and he doesn't net a first, or an equal return in a player its an epic fail for GMJG. Simple as that.

 

[Fitzy]

They can sign a UFA goalie in the next season to expose. Nothing against doing that.

It looks like there's no games played requirement for goaltender, so I guess you're right.

 

[Fitzy]

If #20 is moved at the deadline, and he doesn't net a first, or an equal return in a player its an epic fail for GMJG. Simple as that.

My expectation is something similar to the Zuccarello deal regarding conditional picks.

 

[Lion Hound]

My expectation is something similar to the Zuccarello deal regarding conditional picks.

Size matters. Always did, always will in the mind of NHL GM's.

 

[Anzi]

I wonder how different people's perception of Georgiev's trade value would be if he was drafted in say the 2nd or 3rd round and not a UDFA.

 

[Fitzy]

Size matters. Always did, always will in the mind of NHL GM's.

Well I hope you're right.

And to Anzi- I don't think it matters. We've shown we are good at getting UDFA goalie talent already with Talbot.

 

[Anzi]

Well I hope you're right.

And to Anzi- I don't think it matters. We've shown we are good at getting UDFA goalie talent already with Talbot.

Please tell me why the organization feels the need to draft Lindbom with a 2nd rounder then. That pick still baffles me.

 

[Fitzy]

Please tell me why the organization feels the need to draft Lindbom with a 2nd rounder then. That pick still baffles me.

That, my friend, I will never know.

I was extremely miffed that we didn't go with Bode Wilde there.

 

[nyr2k2]

If #20 is moved at the deadline, and he doesn't net a first, or an equal return in a player its an epic fail for GMJG. Simple as that.

Hard to call it a fail when you don't know the market. Other teams could see a big guy whose whole game is based on speed who may have lost a half-step (and is having a down year), and decide he's purely a rental. If that's the case you get a Zuccarello-type deal with lots of conditions. I can absolutely see that being a real possibility, particularly because he's not exactly playing lights-out. And I can seeing him hitting free agency and getting no offer longer than five years, because teams are scared of him deteriorating rapidly.

I want a first back, too, but if no one offers it then you have to take the best you can get. And that's not JG's fault.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

If #20 is moved at the deadline, and he doesn't net a first, or an equal return in a player its an epic fail for GMJG. Simple as that.

I want a first back, too, but if no one offers it then you have to take the best you can get. And that's not JG's fault.

Well said 2K2. Gorton might have been holding out for a 1st last deadline - then this summer - and now. If it's not there, you can't fault him. Every deadline is different.

Hayes brought back a 1st + Lemieux because Centers are obviously valued more. Market's different for wingers.

Worst case scenario imo, a 2nd + solid prospect, similar to what Grabner got a few years ago. Once Hall is moved, I think the value on CK jumps a bit, hopefully in the 1st + ballpark.

 

[bobbop]

Is there no rule that we need to expose a goalie?

There is but we can sign a minor league veteran to cover that. The big boys (and Huska) are clear

 

[rangers1314]

My expectation is something similar to the Zuccarello deal regarding conditional picks.

That, my friend, I will never know.

I was extremely miffed that we didn't go with Bode Wilde there.

I was in the Jack Drury camp, but yes I think it baffled everyone.

Wasn't the word that BA was the one pushing for Lindbom?