Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVI

[Gardner McKay]

I think the thing we have to be cautious about is reacting to when this team has parts coming together and when those parts aren't.

Right now, there are a lot of parts coming together, and that's allowed us to get back to .500. But it's to be expected that there are going to be stretches where the offense isn't producing like this, and the defense is probably not going to make up the difference, even with improvement.

I say this not to be a downer, but to hopefully set the table for what has a good likelihood of happening. Because when/if it does happen, we're going to be right back to the "This a Bad Hockey Team" and "Management is Lost" type threads. And those too will not be an accurate reflection.

I will say that I think it is a good sign they are overcoming adversity. I feel like it wasn't that long ago that they would have just folded like a cheap tent.

 

[Edge]

I will say that I think it is a good sign they are overcoming adversity. I feel like it wasn't that long ago that they would have just folded like a cheap tent.

For me, that's the part that is exciting - the growth of young talent and their ability to adapt. I don't expect mind-blowing consistency, and I accept the times when it can be frustrating, but I do like that I see them adjusting and branching out as they get more comfortable. I also like that I sense an awareness of things they're not doing and have to do better.

 

[True Blue]

Chicago won a Cup with a RHD pairing and a LHD pairing.

You will admit that is not what usually occurs

 

[NYR Viper]

Arizona is looking for a "gritty" #6/7 guy. Any chance we can find a way to dump Marc Staal on them?

Brendan Smith to the rescue

 

[Gardner McKay]

For me, that's the part that is exciting - the growth of young talent and their ability to adapt. I don't expect mind-blowing consistency, and I accept the times when it can be frustrating, but I do like that I see them adjusting and branching out as they get more comfortable. I also like that I sense an awareness of things they're not doing and have to do better.

Agreed and although I am only being partially facetious, I feel like the shot of "Sad Buchnevich" on the bench last night is evidence of that. In the midst of a career year for him, he is visibly frustrated with his play over a single game.

You will admit that is not what usually occurs

The wording of this makes me want AK to not admit it, just to see what transpires.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Brendan Smith to the rescue

While Smith isn't exactly lighting the world on fire as a 4th liner, he can be passable at times and while I wouldn't hesitate for a second to send him to Arizona for absolutely nothing, I would greatly prefer for it to be Staal. Even though him being benched is what is best for the teams performance, I can't imagine it is an easy thing for all of these guys to deal with, especially for those who have played with him for so long.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

I think both Kreider and Strome need to be traded, and we should listen on Fast. If we could replace Fast with a guy like Anderson I think that would be a net gain. Get a 1st for Kreider and that will eventually be a net gain as well. I honestly dont care about Strome's return, I think he is a replaceable guy. Unfortunately I dont imagine Gorton and Co selling Strome.

 

[Edge]

I think both Kreider and Strome need to be traded, and we should listen on Fast. If we could replace Fast with a guy like Anderson I think that would be a net gain. Get a 1st for Kreider and that will eventually be a net gain as well. I honestly dont care about Strome's return, I think he is a replaceable guy. Unfortunately I dont imagine Gorton and Co selling Strome.

My one concern is that we're close and so then we hang on to guys we really should be moving at this point. There was an article in The Post today that really talked about "hope."

I agree with a lot of the sentiment, but I also view this strategically. In Kreider's case, I'm just not sure there's a real path forward that makes me feel comfortable over the long-run.

I'm not interested in the concepts of self-rentals at this point --- not yet at least.

Strome I'm less concerned with because he's a RFA, so there's not the risk of losing him for nothing. If we don't move him at the deadline, I don't think it's a huge deal.

So far we haven't deviated from the course, but if we're still hovering around our current pace, maybe a little higher, we'll also be facing a pretty decent temptation as well. I'd be curious to see what the reaction is if that's the case.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I think both Kreider and Strome need to be traded, and we should listen on Fast. If we could replace Fast with a guy like Anderson I think that would be a net gain. Get a 1st for Kreider and that will eventually be a net gain as well. I honestly dont care about Strome's return, I think he is a replaceable guy. Unfortunately I dont imagine Gorton and Co selling Strome.

You're joking right? Kreider has 13 points in 22 games and is a pending UFA and Strome is at a point per game and is a pending RFA and you don't care about his return? I get it that many here aren't keen on keeping him long term and that is fine, but to not care about his return? So you would be fine with a 3rd? A 4th?

The longer Strome keeps this up the bigger the price tag at both the deadline and his next contract.

I don't disagree that it trading both would be a good idea. I just think it is ludicrous to not care about the return for Strome.

 

[GAGLine]

I think both Kreider and Strome need to be traded, and we should listen on Fast. If we could replace Fast with a guy like Anderson I think that would be a net gain. Get a 1st for Kreider and that will eventually be a net gain as well. I honestly dont care about Strome's return, I think he is a replaceable guy. Unfortunately I dont imagine Gorton and Co selling Strome.

Andersson isn't ready to be Fast. Hopefully he can elevate his game in Hartford.

I won't say that Strome can't be replaced, but the questions are, who is going to replace him and how much will they cost? I don't think we'll get value anywhere near what might be expected for a PPG player, because he hasn't been close to that level in his career before this year. He is definitely a guy who has more value to us than he does in trade. But re-signing him is tricky. If I'm Gorton, I'd offer him 2 years @ 5 mil per right now, with a limited NTC in the 2nd year. If nothing else, it will increase his value because he will be under contract for a reasonable number, and not a lot of risk because it's only 2 years.

 

[NernieBichols]

Downright surprises: Fox, lindgren, the new chytil

Putting it together: strome, buch, deangelo, pepe

Has his moments: hajek howden

As advertised: trouba kakko

AS ADVERTISED++: panarin

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

The RHD playing on the left side debate aside for a second, I'm not sure I am totally sold on the potential combinations we're talking about.

A defense with ADA, Lundkvist and Fox is very skilled, but that's also going to be a pretty darn small corps. I'll also admit that it would feel like a defense designed to help the Rangers out-gun the opposition, as opposed to shut them down.

Now, if we can a left side to develop that includes Miller, Hajek and Lindgren, that could help balance things out a little. Though, we'd still have four defenseman who are 6'0, 195 and smaller.

So in addition to the issue of playing the off-side, I will say that the combination of how the players fit together is also something that factors into my thought process. But it's a ways off and admittedly not something I spend a lot of time contemplating.

See, and this is why I personally think that at some point in the future, ADA will likely move on to finish his career elsewhere. If you've got that many guys with the same flaw playing the same position, you've created a weakness for your opposition to exploit. Indeed, we've seen how Quinn has tried to mitigate this problem by playing a hybrid D/F on his 4th line so that neither Fox nor DeAngelo play much PK.

This isn't a knock on Tony! He's a dynamic offensive D, as we saw last night. But I also think he's the least rounded of the current RD, 3 years older than Fox (only 1 less than Trouba!), and the biggest liability in his own zone. As @Edge described him a day or so ago, he's an incredibly dangerous 3rd pair PP specialist. And that's a very valuable guy... if most or all of the rest of your D are stalwarts.

But with Trouba already a 40-point+ guy, Fox a 40-point+ guy with significant upside beyond that, and given the pipeline coming – which includes Keane and Lundkvist, who are both slightly larger, with better defense, and good (though admittedly not equal) offense on the doorstep – I just don't see Tony here for the long haul, especially after he gets paid (which he should, and will).

Honestly, I feel like Trouba (contract, NMC) and Fox (forced his way here, unheard of start in only his 1st NHL season, at the age of 21) are both long term locks, and I wouldn't be surprised if all of ADA, Lundqvist, and Keane get moved eventually. And if/when they are, I expect them to return excellent value, because they're good players; just not great fits on the Rangers.

I mean, if I'm management, and I'm looking long-term, I'm hoping for a blue line that looks like:

Miller-Trouba
Hajek/Rykov/Robertson-Fox
Jones/Reunanen-Skinner

(Always with the potential for someone outside the organization to join the conversation, especially to compete with the slashed groups and Skinner.)

Not because the odd men out among Hajek/Rykov/Robertson, Jones/Reunanen, ADA, Lindgren, Lundqvist, Keane, etc. are bad players. They're not! (Hell, both ADA and Lindgren are playing and holding their own in the NHL right now.) But because of the mix I want to see in 2-3 years when I expect this team to open a long window of going deep into the playoffs.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

See, and this is why I personally think that at some point in the future, ADA will likely move on to finish his career elsewhere. If you've got that many guys with the same flaw playing the same position, you've created a weakness for your opposition to exploit. Indeed, we've seen how Quinn has tried to mitigate this problem by playing a hybrid D/F on his 4th line so that neither Fox nor DeAngelo play much PK.

This isn't a knock on Tony! He's a dynamic offensive D, as we saw last night. But I also think he's the least rounded of the current RD, 3 years older than Fox (only 1 less than Trouba!), and the biggest liability in his own zone. As @Edge described him a day or so ago, he's an incredibly dangerous 3rd pair PP specialist. And that's a very valuable guy... if most or all of the rest of your D are stalwarts.

But with Trouba already a 40-point+ guy, Fox a 40-point+ guy with significant upside beyond that, and given the pipeline coming – which includes Keane and Lunqvist, who are both slightly larger, with better defense and good (though admittedly not equal) offense on the doorstep – I just don't see Tony here for the long haul, especially after he gets paid (which he should, and will).

Honestly, I feel like Trouba (contract, NMC) and Fox (forced his way here, unheard of start in only his 1st NHL season) are both long term locks, and I wouldn't be surprised if all of ADA, Lundqvist, and Keane get moved eventually – and moved for excellent value, because they're good players; just not great fits on the Rangers.

I mean, if I'm management, and I'm looking long-term, I'm hoping for a blue line that looks like:

Miller-Trouba
Hajek/Rykov/Robertson-Fox
Jones/Reunanen-Skinner

(Always with the potential for someone outside the organization to join the conversation, especially to compete with the slashed groups and Skinner.)

Not because the losers among Hajek/Rykov/Robertson, Jones/Reunanen, ADA, Lindgren, Lundqvist, Keane, etc. are bad players. They're not! (Hell, both ADA and Lindgren are playing and holding their own in the NHL right now.) But because of the mix I want to see in 2-3 years when I expect this team to open a long window of going deep into the playoffs.

Agreed. It sucks, but I can't see how you end up paying Trouba, ADA, and Fox good money. One would have to be a 3rd pair d-man, and all 3 are better than that.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

You will admit that is not what usually occurs

Just because it's not used often, doesn't mean it's not successful. You need the right players for it, but if you do, it's the right strategy.

 

[Leetch3]

Chicago won a Cup with a RHD pairing and a LHD pairing.

yes it can work, just like you can make it work having guys play on their off-sides. but right now our system is extremely deep with LHD and pretty deep with RHD. so I don't see a reason to plan for guys to play their off sides...

if 3 guys don't emerge from the LHD side, then 100% i'd play one of the RHD on the left and vice versa. but my plan would be to have 3 LHD & RHD and if there are extra guys than they are valuable trade chips.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Andersson isn't ready to be Fast. Hopefully he can elevate his game in Hartford.

I won't say that Strome can't be replaced, but the questions are, who is going to replace him and how much will they cost? I don't think we'll get value anywhere near what might be expected for a PPG player, because he hasn't been close to that level in his career before this year. He is definitely a guy who has more value to us than he does in trade. But re-signing him is tricky. If I'm Gorton, I'd offer him 2 years @ 5 mil per right now, with a limited NTC in the 2nd year. If nothing else, it will increase his value because he will be under contract for a reasonable number, and not a lot of risk because it's only 2 years.

I should clarify that by Anderson i meant Joey in Columbus, Im sorry there was conversation about him earlier I thought that it was implied. I think Joey Anderson can be a Fast replacement.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Like I've said many times, there's no way I can get behind self renting Kreider, or signing him long term. Once Panarin signed on the dotted line, it was over for Kreider.

I think Gorton is shrewd enough to see that moving Kreider brings more long term value to the team and their plans, than self renting and trying to make the playoffs when it's painfully obvious the team isn't close to contending yet.

 

[Edge]

All things being equal, and keeping to what we've seen so far, I don't think Trouba or Fox are going anywhere.

The decision will likely come down to ADA vs. Lundkvist at some point. And the debate will be whether you want offense or balance.

I also don't really see a scenario where they move a guy over to the left side. I think it's a fun thought, but I don't see the Rangers doing with three RHD who are all under six feet and 200 pounds. I just don't.

If we got to that point, and it's a very big if because things rarely go as easy we plan, or operate on the timetable we covet, it will also come down to the preferences of their trading partner.

Assuming that Lundkvist is potentially two years off from forcing this discussion, ADA will be on his next contract and 26 years old. In other words he will be in his prime and considered a veteran presence on this team.

If you had to pin me down, today, and force me to make a prediction, I think the Rangers probably move Lundkvist in a package that nets them a player at a different position. I think they look to get a guy who can step in immediately and have a major impact, and not keep pushing things a little further down the road.

But we couldn't fully predict what today would look like back in November 2017; so I'd somewhat discourage getting too wrapped up today in what November 2021 will look like.

 

[GAGLine]

I should clarify that by Anderson i meant Joey in Columbus, Im sorry there was conversation about him earlier I thought that it was implied. I think Joey Anderson can be a Fast replacement.

I think you mean Josh Anderson

I agree that he could be a Fast replacement. But how much would he cost to acquire? There's also the fact that he needs a new contract. He's having a down year, but he scored 27 goals and 47 points a year ago.

He's currently making 2.1 mil (1.85 cap hit). Fast is making 1.95 mil (1.85 cap hit). Anderson will be 26 in May. Fast will be 28 in a week. Neither is likely to get a long term deal, but Anderson is likely looking at a larger AAV.

 

[Inferno]

I've always liked playing on my offside as a winger, but the speed of the NHL must be tough to make quick plays off the wall on d. Bringing the puck off the wall on your backhand and getting it to your forehand before you can move it takes extra time and you can get burned quick. It's not ideal at that level. I'm not sure how it shakes out but it will suck if DeAngelo's contract demands make it so we have to move him anyway.

I play my off side as a wing and strong side as a defenseman...I find it borderline impossible to hold the boards on the backhand with guys barreling at you, even using your skate to hold it...it's so friggin awekward. But to be fair my backhand is the sissiest wussiest backhand you've ever seen.

 

[RangersFan1994]

https://www.tsn.ca/new-york-rangers-chris-kreider-i-m-not-thinking-about-the-deadline-1.1403905

 

[LaffyTaffy]

I think you mean Josh Anderson

I agree that he could be a Fast replacement. But how much would he cost to acquire? There's also the fact that he needs a new contract. He's having a down year, but he scored 27 goals and 47 points a year ago.

He's currently making 2.1 mil (1.85 cap hit). Fast is making 1.95 mil (1.85 cap hit). Anderson will be 26 in May. Fast will be 28 in a week. Neither is likely to get a long term deal, but Anderson is likely looking at a larger AAV.

Sorry yes, am currently in my International Econ class, probably shouldn't be on here lol.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

With regards to the Tony vs Lundkvist discussion in 2 years, I think that as long as we can get Tony signed to a fair deal his value will skyrocket if he keeps playing well. It will be an easy trade to make if he can contain his persona. The Rangers would be stupid not to want balance on the right side. We are one of the most offensive D-corps in the league and simultaneously have an absolute swiss cheese D strategy in our own zone. What I really think will happen, we will sign Tony, expose him to Seattle, and have Joey Keane slot in as 3RD until Nils is ready.

 

[Tawnos]

Chicago won a Cup with a RHD pairing and a LHD pairing.

This isn't really accurate.

2010: Of 6 pairings that played over 100 minutes 5v5 in the playoffs, 5 follow the L-R setup. Top was Keith-Seabrook (L-R).
2013: 4 of 6. Top was Keith-Seabrook.
2015: 4 of 6. Top was Keith-Hjalmarsson (L-L)

No R-R pairing played more than 100 minutes in any of those years.

 

[True Blue]

Just because it's not used often, doesn't mean it's not successful. You need the right players for it, but if you do, it's the right strategy.

Can it be successful? Sure. But historically speaking, it has not worked out.