Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVI

[Profet]

No, but both IR and LTIR free up a roster spot, which was Bobbop's point. We could have easily afforded to carry both Gettinger and Nieves.

It doesn't work like that...

We could have afforded to carry both Gettinger and Nieves, but that actually reduces our total annual cap space.

IR cap space only allows you to go over the cap, so anything you use until you go over... counts against. So carrying both of them means less cap space. Even with someone on the IR.

 

[Ola]

Even if they had the cap space I doubt the team would have gone long term with DeAngelo. And there was a less than zero chance they went more than a year with Lemieux who had done nothing prior to last year

I think the ability to predict these things are the difference between a good GM and a sub-par GM in this league right now. With the way the cap pressures team, anyone could improve their team immediately with more cap space. These guys had zero leverage back in the summer. They could have been pressured into really good 4-7 year contracts.

Time will tell if it was a good move to bridge them or not. But its the GMs job to predict which guys are worth investing in and which are not. So far Gorton's track-record is easily bottom 3 in the NHL of 31 GMs. I am not totally sold on that he will improve in that ranking the coming years, his TDA, Buch and Lemieux contracts could turn out to be extreme disasters.

 

[Kovalev27]

Both Lemieux and DeAngelo had to show something this season regardless of cap space. They’re doing so now and will be rewarded. The Rangers aren’t going to move them because of earned contracts to keep guys like Kreider Fast and Staal. They’ll move those guys out before they do 48 and 77 if they continue to show growth and progress.

 

[NYR Viper]

Are there any majorly underachieving UFA’s to be that the Rangers could absorb at the deadline? Maybe Edmonton with Gagner and Manning? Dallas with Hanzal? Any others?

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

Both Lemieux and DeAngelo had to show something this season regardless of cap space. They’re doing so now and will be rewarded. The Rangers aren’t going to move them because of earned contracts to keep guys like Kreider Fast and Staal. They’ll move those guys out before they do 48 and 77 if they continue to show growth and progress.

DeAngelo with his limited defensive upside isn’t taking a spot from Lundkvist imo. He is clearly the man out on the right side. DeAngelo has been a bonus in the Stepan deal. That deal was a win in they got nothing back just to dump his salary because he sucks now. Hopefully Andersson will the thrive at Hartford now to make that deal a fleecing.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

DeAngelo with his limited defensive upside isn’t taking a spot from Lundkvist imo. He is clearly the man out on the right side.

A proven NHL Dman isn't taking a spot from a guy yet to play a game because...reasons?

Can we let Lundkvist actually play some games in the western hemisphere before we anoint him please?

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

The only thing DeAngelo has proven is he is below average defensively and can make some nice offensive plays

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I think the ability to predict these things are the difference between a good GM and a sub-par GM in this league right now. With the way the cap pressures team, anyone could improve their team immediately with more cap space. These guys had zero leverage back in the summer. They could have been pressured into really good 4-7 year contracts.

Time will tell if it was a good move to bridge them or not. But its the GMs job to predict which guys are worth investing in and which are not. So far Gorton's track-record is easily bottom 3 in the NHL of 31 GMs. I am not totally sold on that he will improve in that ranking the coming years, his TDA, Buch and Lemieux contracts could turn out to be extreme disasters.

This works both ways though. If he would have signed a guy to a long term deal and the player sucks, people will crush him. And while they had zero leverage, I highly doubt they would have felt pressured to sign team friendly deals.

DeAngelo made it know he wanted more money than the Rangers were offering, but we can also discern he's not an idiot and sign away his prime for low money, when he has the potential to earn a massive amount over the next couple years if his good play continues.

Again I will say, Lemieux had done literally nothing in the league, handing him anything more than a year would have been idiotic. And if I'm being honest, he should be bridged again next summer.

And Gorton is better than bottom 3 GM in the league. There are A LOT of bad GM's in the league. Gorton isn't top 5 or anything, but to say he's bottom 3 is hyperbolic.

 

[Ola]

This works both ways though. If he would have signed a guy to a long term deal and the player sucks, people will crush him. And while they had zero leverage, I highly doubt they would have felt pressured to sign team friendly deals.

DeAngelo made it know he wanted more money than the Rangers were offering, but we can also discern he's not an idiot and sign away his prime for low money, when he has the potential to earn a massive amount over the next couple years if his good play continues.

Again I will say, Lemieux had done literally nothing in the league, handing him anything more than a year would have been idiotic. And if I'm being honest, he should be bridged again next summer.

And Gorton is better than bottom 3 GM in the league. There are A LOT of bad GM's in the league. Gorton isn't top 5 or anything, but to say he's bottom 3 is hyperbolic.

Yup, definitely. And we all know how how much those bad contracts can cost you.

That is why it probably is the most important ability for a GM, and unfortunately Gorton has a horrible track record in this area. And I am not saying that Gorton is bottom 3 overall — but his contract management is definitely bottom 3, if not the worst. Every long contract he signed should have been short, or vice versa lol. Almost. Maybe Vesey’s contract is the only exception.

 

[GAGLine]

It doesn't work like that...

We could have afforded to carry both Gettinger and Nieves, but that actually reduces our total annual cap space.

IR cap space only allows you to go over the cap, so anything you use until you go over... counts against. So carrying both of them means less cap space. Even with someone on the IR.

You are confusing IR and LTIR. They are different. I know how they work and that was exactly the point Bobbop was making. If we put Zib on IR and carried both Gettinger and Nieves, it would take up more cap space. But we didn't do that. It begs the question, what are we saving that cap space for? We'll probably have some performance bonuses to pay, but not nearly as much as we thought we might.

 

[Profet]

You are confusing IR and LTIR. They are different. I know how they work and that was exactly the point Bobbop was making. If we put Zib on IR and carried both Gettinger and Nieves, it would take up more cap space. But we didn't do that. It begs the question, what are we saving that cap space for? We'll probably have some performance bonuses to pay, but not nearly as much as we thought we might.

My guess is to take on a short term bad contract at the deadline to make a Kreider move possible/more likely.

 

[Tawnos]

You are confusing IR and LTIR. They are different. I know how they work and that was exactly the point Bobbop was making. If we put Zib on IR and carried both Gettinger and Nieves, it would take up more cap space. But we didn't do that. It begs the question, what are we saving that cap space for? We'll probably have some performance bonuses to pay, but not nearly as much as we thought we might.

Right. It seems to be a common misconception that all IR is LTIR, but that's not true. A player on LTIR has to miss at least 24 days or 10 games. If you have an injured player who won't be missing that much time, but will miss several games, you can use regular IR so that player doesn't count as one of your 23 roster players. That frees up a roster space (not cap space) in order to bring in a replacement. Could be a call up. Could be a waiver claim, whatever.

 

[offdacrossbar]

DeAngelo with his limited defensive upside isn’t taking a spot from Lundkvist imo. He is clearly the man out on the right side. DeAngelo has been a bonus in the Stepan deal. That deal was a win in they got nothing back just to dump his salary because he sucks now. Hopefully Andersson will the thrive at Hartford now to make that deal a fleecing.

is this real ?

deangelo had been on the radar for a while before that deal went down. the draft pick we got back seems to be 50/50 right now. andersson has yet to show much. that deal JG made was solid even taking lias at 7. i was never a stepan fan anyway so to me, this was a clear win.

meanwhile, tony is having a year and looks to be a legit top 4 guy- defensive warts and all.

nils lundqvist should worry about taking a spot from someone else. not the other way around ?

hoping andersson "thrives" in the ahl is hardly equal to a fleecing.

 

[True Blue]

is this real ?

You and I disagree on a lot of things, but pretty sure on this thing we can agree on. Did you see to whom you are responding to?

 

[bobbop]

You dont bank cap space by the use of th IR

Yes but my point is that they really didn't need to send Gettinger down to recall Nieves.

 

[bobbop]

is this real ?

deangelo had been on the radar for a while before that deal went down. the draft pick we got back seems to be 50/50 right now. andersson has yet to show much. that deal JG made was solid even taking lias at 7. i was never a stepan fan anyway so to me, this was a clear win.

meanwhile, tony is having a year and looks to be a legit top 4 guy- defensive warts and all.

nils lundqvist should worry about taking a spot from someone else. not the other way around ?

hoping andersson "thrives" in the ahl is hardly equal to a fleecing.

The contract dump and #7 pick were the prime attraction. (For he record, I felt then and still feel now the return was not commiserate with the price) Whether the Rangers made a good enough draft pick is another question entirely. I know now that the Rangers really wanted Dvorak , not DeAngelo but couldn''t get the Coyotes to budge. They took what they could get.

DeAngelo is not a legit top 4 guy. He doesn't play defense well enough. He doesn't kill penalties. He's made great strides but can you see him being a top 4 defenseman on a Stanley Cup contender? Not right now. He does however have a pretty good profile...third pair defenseman who can run the power play. That is where his value lies.

Lundqvist appears to be really breaking out as a prospect. He plays offense and defense very well.

 

[bobbop]

Are there any majorly underachieving UFA’s to be that the Rangers could absorb at the deadline? Maybe Edmonton with Gagner and Manning? Dallas with Hanzal? Any others?

Edmonton would likely be a target. Hanzal is LTIR but that does hamstring the Stars in some ways.

 

[Kovalev27]

DeAngelo with his limited defensive upside isn’t taking a spot from Lundkvist imo. He is clearly the man out on the right side. DeAngelo has been a bonus in the Stepan deal. That deal was a win in they got nothing back just to dump his salary because he sucks now. Hopefully Andersson will the thrive at Hartford now to make that deal a fleecing.

Lundkvist hasn’t played a min of NA pro hockey lol. Can we wait till he gets here before declaring that an actual producing nhler isn’t taking HIS spot?

 

[Kovalev27]

My guess is to take on a short term bad contract at the deadline to make a Kreider move possible/more likely.

this is spot on however I’d guess it would have to be an expiring contract. They won’t take a bad contract with term. We have our own cap to consider next year.

 

[Edge]

The contract dump and #7 pick were the prime attraction. (For he record, I felt then and still feel now the return was not commiserate with the price) Whether the Rangers made a good enough draft pick is another question entirely. I know now that the Rangers really wanted Dvorak , not DeAngelo but couldn''t get the Coyotes to budge. They took what they could get.

DeAngelo is not a legit top 4 guy. He doesn't play defense well enough. He doesn't kill penalties. He's made great strides but can you see him being a top 4 defenseman on a Stanley Cup contender? Not right now. He does however have a pretty good profile...third pair defenseman who can run the power play. That is where his value lies.

Lundqvist appears to be really breaking out as a prospect. He plays offense and defense very well.

Right now, I view ADA as a specialist. He's not a guy you can roll out there in a variety of situations, even though the offensive ability is higher-end. Ultimately, what kind of weapon ADA becomes is really dependent on how his defense progresses. If it becomes passable, the offense will make up for it. If it stays where it's at, the Rangers would have to use him more strategically or find a human-eraser to slide into the left side next to him.

Fortunately, I don't think there's any decisions immediately on the horizon, unless there is a really good young player out there the Rangers can get back in a potential return.

 

[Cag29]

I think the ability to predict these things are the difference between a good GM and a sub-par GM in this league right now. With the way the cap pressures team, anyone could improve their team immediately with more cap space. These guys had zero leverage back in the summer. They could have been pressured into really good 4-7 year contracts.

Time will tell if it was a good move to bridge them or not. But its the GMs job to predict which guys are worth investing in and which are not. So far Gorton's track-record is easily bottom 3 in the NHL of 31 GMs. I am not totally sold on that he will improve in that ranking the coming years, his TDA, Buch and Lemieux contracts could turn out to be extreme disasters.

I disagree. I think JG is very good so far.

 

[Kovalev27]

As much as I love Tony I am a bit disappointed in his game defensively this year. Thought he was much better last season. The team is struggling but I thought he was more than solid defensively last season imo considering what he brought to the table.

 

[Edge]

As much as I love Tony I am a bit disappointed in his game defensively this year. Thought he was much better last season. The team is struggling but I thought he was more than solid defensively last season imo considering what he brought to the table.

Overall, I think this team's ability to put up a lot of points on a given night has somewhat masked the fact that it commitment to defense has been lacking at best.

 

[Ola]

I don’t know if I agree that TDA is as weak defensively as portrayed.

There are certainly room for improvement — and there are zero reasons to not expect him to improve his defense the coming years — but he is fast and agile which is a plus in many situations and weaker physically which is a negative of course.

I think he is pretty OK overall. Remember that this is not a team that it’s entirely easy to play defense for. Just look at Trouba. He gets into his fair share of trouble, why would TDA be 100% spotless?

I think that there is a narrative that TDA is a train wreck defensively to prevent the hype of him to taking of too much. Great. The problem is when it becomes a truth and Gorton goes out and make one record dumb move after another.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Overall, I think this team's ability to put up a lot of points on a given night has somewhat masked the fact that it commitment to defense has been lacking at best.

I think if they played solid team defense more consistently, you live with the occasional gaffes by a guy like Deangelo because his offense makes up for it. But to be fair, he seems to have improved a bit defensively this season.

I don’t know if I agree that TDA is as weak defensively as portrayed.

There are certainly room for improvement — and there are zero reasons to not expect him to improve his defense the coming years — but he is fast and agile which is a plus in many situations and weaker physically which is a negative of course.

I think he is pretty OK overall. Remember that this is not a team that it’s entirely easy to play defense for. Just look at Trouba. He gets into his fair share of trouble, why would TDA be 100% spotless?

I think that there is a narrative that TDA is a train wreck defensively to prevent the hype of him to taking of too much. Great. The problem is when it becomes a truth and Gorton goes out and make one record dumb move after another.

My issue with Deangelo is, he makes that one massive/glaring turnover almost every game. This is strictly anecdotal on my part though. Maybe every defenseman does I just always seem to notice him.