Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XVI (Playoffs or Retool?)

[Machinehead]

Is it an overreaction? It's my opinion that January was a complete aberration.

I think it's an underreaction to just go with the status quo and expect a winning result.

This is not a contending team.

I have often been accussed of being negative, as has @DanielBrassard. I don't agree with that. I know I'm not like that and I don't think DB is like that reading his posts. I try to take things as they come and do decent analysis.

When the team has a stretch where they play better, acknowledging that fact doesn't mean one is in favor of status-quo hockey. It's not a political ideology. Almost nobody wants to continue kicking the can down the road with most of this lineup.

The key is to assess who stays and who goes. "Nuke it because I'm emotional" is not good analysis. Although we disagree on some things, I think @McRanger92 has taken a similar approach.

For example, Borgen has had a good stretch. Now it's "oh, see he can't play high in the lineup." Ok maybe he can't but it's one game. People are going back on forth on Trocheck being part of the team moving forward. Maybe he is or he isn't but that one play isn't a reason why he shouldn't be.

At the end of the day, I don't think anyone would be against it if they took a step back to get high-end talent, but they did that and they f***ed that up. So what else is there? Get rid of the problems at least. It's a start and it's very feasible. We could do it by the start of next year.

If they started playing better because they replaced one problem with NHL talent, why is that bad?

 

[Boris Zubov]

Yup, they saw one whiff of positive media attention and they were like "mission accomplished boys, we're a good team again!" and sat back and relaxed.

They were literally all touting the same bullshit in the post game interviews, "We've played excellent hockey in January". Basically they believe they can rest on their laurels & glide into a playoff spot. Mission accomplished.

The core is rotten. Nothing has changed.

 

[RangerBoy]

this is what i would do at this point

put mika/kreider together on the 4th line and play them 8 minutes night. They’re active liabilities right now. i pray to god we can trade at least one of them before the deadline passes

unfortunately there’s zero chance kreider hasnt already significantly tanked his value. i don’t think there’s any team rn watching him and thinking “yeah, this guy is putting us over the top”

Kreider should not go to the 4 Nations in a few weeks since he is hurt. Can't complain about an injury to not get traded and then play in a meaningless event.

 

[bl02]

Bread-Chytil-Cuylle
Edstrom-Carrick-Rempe
Laf-Trocheck-Smith
Kreider-Zib-Kaliyev

I'll tell you playing Cuylle with Mika certainly has not pleased Cuylle's agent lol
#freeCuylle

 

[Machinehead]

Adam Fox scored a SHG against Ottawa in the Rangers final game last season. In 16 playoff games, Fox had zero goals. A big bagel. 0. 8 lousy assists in 16 playoff games. No wonder why the Rangers lost. Again. I know, I know Fox was hurt after Jensen kneed him. It didn’t appear to be that bad. In 50 regular season games this season. Fox has one goal scored with the opposing goalie in the net. One. One lousy goal. January 9th. Power play. We can't blame the lack of opportunity. Fox's last goal at even strength 5 on 5 was last March 21 against Boston. 10 months ago. 78 games ago.

Adam Fox 2023-24 Stats per Game - NHL - ESPN

The fancy stats say Fox is Bobby Orr.

The fancy stats don't say he's Bobby Orr. Not this year. 2025. They say he's having a bit of a down year. Down. Not up. Most people agree he's having a tough year. Lots of agreement. HFBoards.

Some of that is a downgrade in play. A lot of it is his partner. Lindgren. 55. People have been saying this since two years ago. 204 games. He's also shooting 1%. One. O. N. E. One lousy percent.

There are valid criticisms. Fancy stats say it. Down year. Down. What they don't say is that he sucks. You do. You think he sucks. It's stupid. He doesn't suck. Everyone knows it. Even if you think Hughes and Makar are better. You're advocating for trading the 3rd best defenseman in the league. 3rd. Three. 3. Again. It gets old.

 

[Takeahnase]

I'm really intrigued about what is behind all of this. It can't be just "JT Miller doesn't like that EP40 is soft and not trying" or "EP40 doesn't like that JT Miller yells at him". There has to have been a serious off-ice incident of some sorts.

It’s wife drama, guaranteed.

 

[LokiDog]

The Rangers lead the league in goals in January up until last night, so that’s not really true. Again I’m not even disagreeing necessarily but there’s no need to twist the truth. The Rangers have been playing much better as a team. They still need to make crucial changes and aren’t good enough to win the cup.

Sure, but unless we think Carrick and Edstrom are going to have consecutive career months for the rest of the season, it’s the exact same team from November/December. They were playing their absolute worst and now they’re back to their mean performance level and it’s still extremely mediocre. We had huge goals from players we shouldn’t and some padded stats from the same suspects who make this team so remarkably mediocre. It’s the same song and dance all the time. Last year everyone agreed that Shesterkin and the PP made us President’s Trophy winners but it’s hard to admit that Shesterkin and role players performing way over their heads are the only thing dragging this team off the dung heap right now? The absolute worst thing that could happen for the future of this team and us as fans is believing in this group and doubling down on it.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It happens every time. Every year. I call stuff as I see it, people don’t like it, and within 2 weeks - 2 months it becomes a standard talking point on our boards. It rarely gets acknowledged. Does it matter if the board is reasonable or not after a loss? Do we realllllly think Borgen should be on the second pair of a contender? Are we realllllly going to act like Fox’s skating isn’t an actual point of concern and he looks nowhere near the net positive he was in his first few years? Are we really going to act like this team and this forward group is ever going anywhere with the centers it has and complete lack of centers in the system? It’s exactly what I said it was a month ago. You say this board isn’t reasonable after a loss. I say this board is even more unreasonable after a win. The fact that anyone can watch this team, win or lose, and think that we should be buyers or that this group has Cup aspirations at this stage of their time together is mind boggling, but all it takes is two wins and people are right back to posting about what we should be trading FOR at the deadline.

That’s a lot less reasonable, IMO. With the main characters being what they are at this point of their careers/tenures, how anyone can think this team is anything but the definition of middling and mediocre is beyond my comprehension. We saw such horrid hockey for a while that when this team manages to simply not look as if they’d struggle in the AHL we started seeing “that was one of the best games of the year” posts. And this is exactly what we have done with our prospects and our overall culture. We got so used to absolutely disappointing crap from Laf and Kakko that when they would have a game where they got a secondary assist by accident and skated in the correct direction most of the night we celebrated it as progress. We get so accustomed to crap that we exalt mediocrity as excellence. Because it feels excellent compared to the crap we usually get. But it isn’t genuine excellence. It’s absolute mediocrity.

And another one of my constant takes, since Hank’s days - the elite goalie will mask the problems and so we will never address them, nor be bad enough to draft the center we need to change this franchise. And what did Shesterkin do this past month? Prop up a pathetically mediocre team.

Heres my issue with most of this....

It's littered with confirmation bias or just straight up bias that can be easily refuted. Allow me to continue.

Shesterkin did NOT prop up this team over the last month. No team has scored more in the month of January than the Rangers have. Over the resurgence they were 2nd in the league in GPG (behind Nashville of all teams) and 5th in GA. A little bit inflated by them completely shellacking Ottawa and Philly in b2b games? Sure, but they also potted goals in losses along the way (4 vs Montreal, 4 vs Dallas) and those were games that they lost. Igor's been mother f***ed to death this month by almost everyone during this run, but they were a net positive pretty much everywhere outside of the PP.

We don't need to act like Fox's skating has dropped off because it hasn't. He's no faster or slower than he's ever been. @SA16 already pointed this out. He's already clocked a higher top speed this year than he did 2 seasons ago when he was a Norris runner up. No one was complaining about his skating then.

You know what has dropped off the last few years that is undeniable? The quality of his partner who is a f***ing abomination. They need to solve that.

Now this place gets overly excited when they win too so we agree there. It equally ridiculous to expect this team to waltz into a playoff spot as even with their uptick in play they had a shit load of ground to make up and they're barely closer to a spot now than they were when this whole thing started. Thats the problem with digging out of holes - you can't expect a team to run an .750 winning percentage forever and when you have 5 teams to jump, you're relying on ALL of them to hit the skids a bit so you can play catch up. None of them really did and most of them basically kept up.

But they WERE playing better and it wasn't goaltending that they were riding behind. I also disagree that they basically hid behind goaltending last year. I actually thought last year's team was pretty good.... They just had Trouba and Lindgren sized holes that they refused to address (there were other problems, but those were the glaring ones.)

The main characters need to go, that I'm 100% in agreement with starting with #10. The trickle down effect his presence has had on this iteration of the team is way more damaging than anyone wants to admit.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Expected goals against, just under 2. People really will tell me with a straight face Igor had nothing to do with that loss. We actually had more expected goals that game according to moneypuck. If we lost it should have been a close game not the farce it turned into.

 

[Lion Hound]

At the 50 game mark the team has a .520 win% and has 52 Pts on the season.
They are 5th place in the Metro
They trail the 3rd Place Devils by 10 points.
They are 3 points out of a wildcard birth.
5Pts seperating 7 teams for the Last ECF Wildcard spot.

At the current position they would be drafting 11th OA providing they don't win the lotto.
If the playoffs started tomorrow they would be cleaning out their lockers and planning their T times.

There's 12 Games from now until the NHL Trade Deadline.
In Feb they play Bruins, Knights, Bruins, Penguins, Jackets. 5 Games in 8 days.
They break for the 4 Nations on Feb 9th and return to action on Feb 22.
Then they play the Sabres, Penguins, Isles, Leafs, Preds, Isles, Caps. 7 games in 12 Days.

If the cost for JT Miller includes the 2025 NYR 1st rounder, Lindgren, and Chytil from a Value perspective it doesn't seem exhorbitant. From the lackluster effort we have seen pretty much since the Trouba trade, that's putting a lot of stress on the shiny new toy. A new toy who seemingly is coming out of a room that has its own issues with numerous signs pointing in his direction.

Chris Drury has painted himself into a corner. He has a team that has become quite the embarrassment of the NHL. He has Veteran leaders that seemingly refuse to play hard. Malcontent players that have either been scratched, benched or have even been traded since their words made it to social media via the beat writers covering them. He has a Coaching staff that has gotten a pass basically all season even after losing the room to where players are speaking out. NYR loyalist like Sam, Joe, and Valiquette are even speaking out against them. The only thing Sam Rosen has ever spoken badly about were opposing players like Tom Wilson, or Dave Brown. To hear him now in his final year with MSG is saddening.

Not sure where this goes from here. Any momentum they gained seems to have been lost. This has been a complete disaster of a Season thus far.

 

[LokiDog]

Heres my issue with most of this....

It's littered with confirmation bias or just straight up bias that can be easily refuted. Allow me to continue.

Shesterkin did NOT prop up this team over the last month. No team has scored more in the month of January than the Rangers have. Over the resurgence they were 2nd in the league in GPG (behind Nashville of all teams) and 5th in GA. A little bit inflated by them completely shellacking Ottawa and Philly in b2b games? Sure, but they also potted goals in losses along the way (4 vs Montreal, 4 vs Dallas) and those were games that they lost. Igor's been mother f***ed to death this month by almost everyone during this run, but they were a net positive pretty much everywhere outside of the PP.

We don't need to act like Fox's skating has dropped off because it hasn't. He's no faster or slower than he's ever been. @SA16 already pointed this out. He's already clocked a higher top speed this year than he did 2 seasons ago when he was a Norris runner up. No one was complaining about his skating then.

You know what has dropped off the last few years that is undeniable? The quality of his partner who is a f***ing abomination. They need to solve that.

Now this place gets overly excited when they win too so we agree there. It equally ridiculous to expect this team to waltz into a playoff spot as even with their uptick in play they had a shit load of ground to make up and they're barely closer to a spot now than they were when this whole thing started. Thats the problem with digging out of holes - you can't expect a team to run an .750 winning percentage forever and when you have 5 teams to jump, you're relying on ALL of them to hit the skids a bit so you can play catch up. None of them really did and most of them basically kept up.

But they WERE playing better and it wasn't goaltending that they were riding behind. I also disagree that they basically hid behind goaltending last year. I actually thought last year's team was pretty good.... They just had Trouba and Lindgren sized holes that they refused to address (there were other problems, but those were the glaring ones.)

The main characters need to go, that I'm 100% in agreement with starting with #10. The trickle down effect his presence has had on this iteration of the team is way more damaging than anyone wants to admit.

Playing better than actual feces doesn’t mean you became good. There was nowhere to go but up. We didn’t go up nearly as much as most are acting. As if the dark times have passed and it’s back to rainbows and contending. All that happened is we ascended to the mean. Usually you have something like a hot streak and have to revert to the mean. We just did the opposite. And have been propped up by unsustainable production by players who cannot be relied on to continue giving us that type of offense. Looking at total goals is misleading. When were they scored? Padding a lead when Shesterkin is posting a shutout and Carrick and Rempe are the reason we’re winning isn’t sustainable either. As for Fox - wow, someone pointed out that his top speed is the same. That’s not what “skating” is and we all know that. First step, lateral movement, reaction time, stamina to be able to reach top speed. All massively important for a 1D. Maybe we can ditch the charts and use the eyeballs. I have no idea how you can watch this team and see anything but maddening mediocrity. That’s just me.

 

[SA16]

At the 50 game mark the team has a .520 win% and has 52 Pts on the season.
They are 5th place in the Metro
They trail the 3rd Place Devils by 10 points.
They are 3 points out of a wildcard birth.
5Pts seperating 7 teams for the Last ECF Wildcard spot.

At the current position they would be drafting 11th OA providing they don't win the lotto.
If the playoffs started tomorrow they would be cleaning out their lockers and planning their T times.

There's 12 Games from now until the NHL Trade Deadline.
In Feb they play Bruins, Knights, Bruins, Penguins, Jackets. 5 Games in 8 days.
They break for the 4 Nations on Feb 9th and return to action on Feb 22.
Then they play the Sabres, Penguins, Isles, Leafs, Preds, Isles, Caps. 7 games in 12 Days.

If the cost for JT Miller includes the 2025 NYR 1st rounder, Lindgren, and Chytil from a Value perspective it doesn't seem exhorbitant. From the lackluster effort we have seen pretty much since the Trouba trade, that's putting a lot of stress on the shiny new toy. A new toy who seemingly is coming out of a room that has its own issues with numerous signs pointing in his direction.

Chris Drury has painted himself into a corner. He has a team that has become quite the embarrassment of the NHL. He has Veteran leaders that seemingly refuse to play hard. Malcontent players that have either been scratched, benched or have even been traded since their words made it to social media via the beat writers covering them. He has a Coaching staff that has gotten a pass basically all season even after losing the room to where players are speaking out. NYR loyalist like Sam, Joe, and Valiquette are even speaking out against them. The only thing Sam Rosen has ever spoken badly about were opposing players like Tom Wilson, or Dave Brown. To hear him now in his final year with MSG is saddening.

Not sure where this goes from here. Any momentum they gained seems to have been lost. This has been a complete disaster of a Season thus far.

Why has the momentum been lost because they lost two games? Did you expect them to win every game the remainder of the season?

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Expected goals against, just under 2. People really will tell me with a straight face Igor had nothing to do with that loss. We actually had more expected goals that game according to moneypuck. If we lost it should have been a close game not the farce it turned into.

A loss is a loss.

We couldn’t score. We had “looks” but didn’t even put most of those on net, so you can’t blame luck. Zero composure.


Igor facing uncontested shots from right in front. He could be making 50 million a year and you still shouldn’t expect a goalie to stop those against NHL players who actually can shoot the puck.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

A loss is a loss.

We couldn’t score. We had “looks” but didn’t even put most of those on net, so you can’t blame luck. Zero composure.


Igor facing uncontested shots from right in front. He could be making 50 million a year and you still shouldn’t expect a goalie to stop those against NHL players who actually can shoot the puck.

Freddie Anderson was saving his. And he's a bum.

 

[Takeahnase]

I thought putting Kaliyev and Kreider with Chytil would've been a good mixture of skills, but it's looking like those two are just slowing Chytil down. He should be centering Panarin, pushing people back and creating some room for Panarin to work.

I can get behind Chytil centering Panarin for sure. I appreciate your take on skating and speed for zone entries but Roslovic was like a one man speed zone entry for this team last postseason and the problem was he hadn’t the foggiest notion of what to do once he got there. It failed. Players that have that kind of speed and skating often never had to develop craftiness, vision, and spatial awareness among other tools at the junior level because they just dominated with speed.

It’s a rare player that can be an A+ in speed and not be a helter skelter chaos player when when skill, delivering passes on-target and on-time is actually called for.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Freddie Anderson was saving his. And he's a bum.

He is a bum. I don’t credit him with making Kreider absolutely shit his pants on an open net

 

[kovazub94]

Adam Fox scored a SHG against Ottawa in the Rangers final game last season. In 16 playoff games, Fox had zero goals. A big bagel. 0. 8 lousy assists in 16 playoff games. No wonder why the Rangers lost. Again. I know, I know Fox was hurt after Jensen kneed him. It didn’t appear to be that bad. In 50 regular season games this season. Fox has one goal scored with the opposing goalie in the net. One. One lousy goal. January 9th. Power play. We can't blame the lack of opportunity. Fox's last goal at even strength 5 on 5 was last March 21 against Boston. 10 months ago. 78 games ago.

Adam Fox 2023-24 Stats per Game - NHL - ESPN

The fancy stats say Fox is Bobby Orr.

"It didn't appear to be that bad." - haha, made my day!

 

[Profet]

I have often been accussed of being negative, as has @DanielBrassard. I don't agree with that. I know I'm not like that and I don't think DB is like that reading his posts. I try to take things as they come and do decent analysis.

When the team has a stretch where they play better, acknowledging that fact doesn't mean one is in favor of status-quo hockey. It's not a political ideology. Almost nobody wants to continue kicking the can down the road with most of this lineup.

The key is to assess who stays and who goes. "Nuke it because I'm emotional" is not good analysis. Although we disagree on some things, I think @McRanger92 has taken a similar approach.

For example, Borgen has had a good stretch. Now it's "oh, see he can't play high in the lineup." Ok maybe he can't but it's one game. People are going back on forth on Trocheck being part of the team moving forward. Maybe he is or he isn't but that one play isn't a reason why he shouldn't be.

At the end of the day, I don't think anyone would be against it if they took a step back to get high-end talent, but they did that and they f***ed that up. So what else is there? Get rid of the problems at least. It's a start and it's very feasible. We could do it by the start of next year.

If they started playing better because they replaced one problem with NHL talent, why is that bad?

I'm entirely too negative. It's something I personally need to work on.

I was so excited to get high end prospects with high picks. And it just didn't work out. I don't even blame the Rangers org for Kakko and Laf. It is what it is.

I DO blame them for:

• Kravtsov
• Lias
• Not getting nearly enough for McDonagh
• Not getting nearly enough for Miller
• Not getting nearly enough for Zuc
• Not getting nearly enough for Buchnevich

I can go on. But this team's amateur and professional scouting staff is just terrible. I know that many of the positions have been turned over in the last few years, but I still don't see those changes being reflected with positive outcomes.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

He is a bum. I don’t credit him with making Kreider absolutely shit his pants on an open net

Kreider's back does not explain this. Both he and Mika are emo players that forget how to play hockey when they're in the funk. I refuse to believe it's all physical when you blow a friggin layup at the side of the net.

 

[CLW]

The best prospect pools belonged to us and the LA kings. Both organizations got almost nothing out of them

Very similar organizations. Both stuck in the past playing boring dino hockey that sucks the soul out of prospects. I.e. they attempt to replicate past success by formulaic thinking rather than adapt to what they have right now and build from that.

The Habs were the same but had the guts to blow it up to break out of that reptile brain formula. Even if the Habs fail they at least A) identified the problem and B) had the balls to try. The NYR had the intention to change (the Letter) but they weren't committed enough to see it through. Organizational inertia won the day (see Drury, President & GM; Dolan, Owner).

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Kreider's back does not explain this. Both he and Mika are emo players that frorget how to play hockey when they're in the funk. I refuse to believe it's all physical when you blow a friggin layup at the side of the net.

I mean every player misses those once in a while but on top of his overall horrible invisible lazy play all season, I’ve never seen a drop off like this

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Playing better than actual feces doesn’t mean you became good. There was nowhere to go but up. We didn’t go up nearly as much as most are acting. As if the dark times have passed and it’s back to rainbows and contending. All that happened is we ascended to the mean. Usually you have something like a hot streak and have to revert to the mean. We just did the opposite. And have been propped up by unsustainable production by players who cannot be relied on to continue giving us that type of offense. Looking at total goals is misleading. When were they scored? Padding a lead when Shesterkin is posting a shutout and Carrick and Rempe are the reason we’re winning isn’t sustainable either. As for Fox - wow, someone pointed out that his top speed is the same. That’s not what “skating” is and we all know that. First step, lateral movement, reaction time, stamina to be able to reach top speed. All massively important for a 1D. Maybe we can ditch the charts and use the eyeballs. I have no idea how you can watch this team and see anything but maddening mediocrity. That’s just me.

They were playing well. It wasn't just better than feces, they were winning games that they legitimately deserved to win and some of the teams they knocked off along the way were good and they even had losses where they generally looked really good (Colorado, that was on Igor and Panarin.)

Listen, I f***ing HATE it when people try to carve out every excuse in the book for players when they underperform - Its taken f***ing forever for people to come around on Lindgren (he's been wolf shit since the beginning of LAST season) and there are certain people who still try to act like Panarin has been adequate or even good in the playoffs. One of my least favorite things to have to read here so I'm saying this as someone who is far from a pumper of sunshine and rainbows.

Diminishing this team's efforts when they actually play well is equally as irratating. That doesn't mean that this team is actually good or even playoff worthy (FTR: I don't think they are, they basically punted that shit when they dropped games against Seattle, Chicago and Nashville in December) but they banked a bunch of points and sort of pulled themselves together during an 11 game stretch because they played well. Those are facts. That doesn't mean that it can't all fall apart again or that they're going to pull a 2019 Blues act. They probably will fall apart and there is no miracle run here (not as long as 55 is around, thats for f***ing sure.)

A team getting contributions from unlikely players is nothing new when they lead the league in scoring over a stretch of games. That shit is never coming strictly from your top guys. Rempe's goofy ass has 1 goal in January, he's hardly driving the offense.

OTOH They scored 4 goals 4 times in LOSSES this month (OT or otherwise.) They haven't been just stat padding in games where Igor shuts the other team out (one of his SO's was a game that they didn't score in either.) They picked up 19/28 points in January, so they scored at the right time more often than not.

I disagree with your take on Fox's skating all together, but thats also because I'm not trying to force my self to see something that isn't there.

 

[Lion Hound]

Why has the momentum been lost because they lost two games? Did you expect them to win every game the remainder of the season?

Certainly can't expect to to win every game. That's just not going to happen. What i do expect is for them to give the effort every game. Jan was a better month for them. They won 8 out of 14 games. There was hope again. Then they lose a big game on some very costly mistakes and follow it up with an abysmal 4-0 shutout to an EC rival. So yeah, they lose momentum of what the built during the rest of the month.

Would love nothing more then to see them come out guns a blazing against the Bruins on Sat, but i'm skeptical that this team with all of its woes has that kind of Moxy.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

They were literally all touting the same bullshit in the post game interviews, "We've played excellent hockey in January". Basically they believe they can rest on their laurels & glide into a playoff spot. Mission accomplished.

The core is rotten. Nothing has changed.

Yeah seriously, every single player after the last 2 (embarrassing) losses talked about how great they've been playing. Decent stretch mind you, also blew multiple games in OT that they should've won. But yeah it gave the impression that "Ok, we're back time to glide to a playoff spot."

I hate to break it to these guys but if they want to make the playoffs they're going to need to treat literally every regular season game remaining as if it's a playoff game. That means no lolly gagging on back checks, no over extended shifts, not coasting and conserving energy, no trap games, no nights off. Unfortunately these are (apparently) the foundational principles of this core.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Certainly can't expect to to win every game. That's just not going to happen. What i do expect is for them to give the effort every game. Jan was a better month for them. They won 8 out of 14 games. There was hope again. Then they lose a big game on some very costly mistakes and follow it up with an abysmal 4-0 shutout to an EC rival. So yeah, they lose momentum of what the built during the rest of the month.

Would love nothing more then to see them come out guns a blazing against the Bruins on Sat, but i'm skeptical that this team with all of its woes has that kind of Moxy.

I’m expecting another shitty lazy 2-1 win against Boston and then they will pat themselves on their he back.

Boston is ass