Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XVI (Playoffs or Retool?)

[will1066]

Has he even taken 12 shots in 2025? What are his totals looking like compared to this time last year?

You don't want to compare his "headline" totals right now to any from last year. It's ugly. I don't know about his advanced fancy stats. And I don't care about those, really.

Edit: I got curious anyway and looked. He's on the same pace as last year basically as shots go. But his shooting percentage is 3.4% which is 50% less than his nominal career average. He shot 12.4% last year, an outlier in his career of about 7 to 8% nominal.

 

[Profet]

Can we just eject this core into the sun already.

I hate everything about how this team is made up.

It's completely ass backwards.

Need to build around a star center and a star dman. Not around a star goalie.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

You don't want to compare his "headline" totals right now to any from last year. It's ugly. I don't know about his advanced fancy stats. And I don't care about those, really.

Edit: I got curious anyway and looked. He's on the same pace as last year basically as shots go. But his shooting percentage is 3.4% which is 50% less than his nominal career average. He shot 12.4% last year, an outlier in his career of about 7 to 8% nominal.

I expect his offensive numbers would be down considering the whole team’s has . But his goal scoring impotence is baffling .

 

[will1066]

I expect his offensive numbers would be down considering the whole team’s has . But his goal scoring impotence is baffling .

He's just not getting open, whether he's doing it for himself or his teammates are creating time and space for him. Don't have to be a stat genius to interpret why he's not scoring. He used to be able come down the open lane from the point and have time to aim the puck. Or create/benefit from some royal road stuff that left the cage half-open. This season, he's rarely beating anyone 1 on 1 and watching him move laterally is painful.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

i’ll be real, i’m concerned about how Fox looks. I know hes still on pace for 70 points but he doesnt look like the same player. Spare me the lindgren shit, I know he sucks, but Fox himself looks slower and weaker. As a guy who was always slow, he can’t afford to lose a step.

 

[will1066]

i’ll be real, i’m concerned about how Fox looks. I know hes still on pace for 70 points but he doesnt look like the same player. Spare me the lindgren shit, I know he sucks, but Fox himself looks slower and weaker. As a guy who was always slow, he can’t afford to lose a step.

As much as Lindgren puts everyone on the ice with him into some shit, the amount of reverses Fox does to Lindgren also has an effect. Because he's not able to beat his guy on a zone exit in a skate-it-out situation or whatever else situation, he has to reverse it to Lindgren, which is like giving a 5 year old the car keys. Adding to that is the other team gets time to settle into their d structure and Lindgren has to figure out how to break it. Usually he does one of 3 options: goes back to Fox or tries a diagonal stretch pass or dumps the puck in, but since the other team is set up and ready, they are the first ones to retrieve the puck cleanly like 95% of the time on a dump-in, or they break up a play in the neutral zone or at the blue line, and we have no forecheck pressure and worse get beaten on the transition. @DanielBrassard will appreciate this.

Same shit happens to Panarin, and it did at least once last night. His linemates are rushing up ice and he's gotta stop on a dime and reverse it because he's unable to beat his guy skating. And that's probably why he rarely ever skates the puck out of the zone himself unless there's no traffic in front of him. He pulls up on the wall to make the long stretch pass. Then expects the puck carrier will drop the puck back to him after doing the work of gaining the zone.

To be fair, all the defense pairs either love the reverse play or because they have to rely on it due to whatever, e.g., lack of forward support, no time and space, they want a controlled zone exit at the expense of letting the other team get set defensively, etc.

 

[RGY]

Kreider is a combination of physically hurt and emotionally hurt. Both can be addressed by sitting the f***ing guy because he is AWFUL out there. That slam dunk play last night is always a “slam dunk” for him. As recent as last year. Age matters but he didn’t just all the sudden fall off where he can’t execute on even a play like that. He is making mistakes all over the ice. A blatant egregious and LAZY turnover for the CAR 3rd goal. He needs to sit. I don’t think he has enough trade value right now. He has been relegated to 3rd line minutes. I am less interested in moving him and more concerned with Mika Zibanejad, who I have defended forever. But no more. This guy is an utter clown. He is pathetic. Mentally weak. Physically weak. Confidence is a major issue for him and he cannot overcome it. He had a golden chance in the slot during the 1st period last night and couldn’t bury it.

The Team desperately needs a culture change. Panarin isn’t a major problem for me. Last 2 games yes, but overall he is still a 90+ point player. As @mas0764 said its ok to have a few perimeter players IF they are productive. The major issue is Mika Zibanejad. He is at the epicenter of it all. His body language and facial expressions look like his puppy just passed away. He is lifeless and dejected. When you have a $9 million dollar player looking like that it trickles down to the rest of the team.

This is why I am interested in JT Miller, if for no other reason than to get the tampons and diaper dispensers out of the room. Get Mika off PP1. Trade Mika in the offseason to open the cap back up. If you can get VAN to retain a bit that JTM aav will look even better as the cap rises. This past offseason you saw insane contracts go out to 30+ year olds and that was before knowing the cap would be increasing in a healthy manner. This team wont go into a rebuild and while this season may be a lost cause (even if they make the playoffs) they need to start preparing for next season which they consider to still be in their “window” and competing for a cup. Start shifting the personnel around, out with some of the trash. Remodel the Team a bit to resurface things. JT Miller and go from there. Get Lindgren the f*** out of here unless he takes a new contract under $2.5 AAV per year, which he absolutely wont. Because I guarantee you can find a veteran D on the market for the same money or less with the same output or even better play. TBD on Reilly Smith. Depends on what someone is willing to pay plus where we are at the deadline. He has been good the past month or so. But doesn’t mean we should self rent unless the market is underwhelming for him and we are heading towards a WC spot.

Could we get JT Miller for a package that doesn’t include Chytil? I doubt it. Plus Chytil probably has to go to make the $$ work. But Chytil is our best skater and puck carrier imo. He pushes the pace of play when on the ice. No one else is doing that. JTM can so he would be replacing that but it would have been nice adding JTM to that.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

i’ll be real, i’m concerned about how Fox looks. I know hes still on pace for 70 points but he doesnt look like the same player. Spare me the lindgren shit, I know he sucks, but Fox himself looks slower and weaker. As a guy who was always slow, he can’t afford to lose a step.

Mika, Kreider, Trochek, Lafreniere, Panarin and Chytil are all worse than they were last year, its gonna have an effect on everyone on the team, especially offensive dmen

Kreider is a combination of physically hurt and emotionally hurt. Both can be addressed by sitting the f***ing guy because he is AWFUL out there. That slam dunk play last night is always a “slam dunk” for him. As recent as last year. Age matters but he didn’t just all the sudden fall off where he can’t execute on even a play like that. He is making mistakes all over the ice. A blatant egregious and LAZY turnover for the CAR 3rd goal. He needs to sit. I don’t think he has enough trade value right now. He has been relegated to 3rd line minutes. I am less interested in moving him and more concerned with Mika Zibanejad, who I have defended forever. But no more. This guy is an utter clown. He is pathetic. Mentally weak. Physically weak. Confidence is a major issue for him and he cannot overcome it. He had a golden chance in the slot during the 1st period last night and couldn’t bury it.

The Team desperately needs a culture change. Panarin isn’t a major problem for me. Last 2 games yes, but overall he is still a 90+ point player. As @mas0764 said its ok to have a few perimeter players IF they are productive. The major issue is Mika Zibanejad. He is at the epicenter of it all. His body language and facial expressions look like his puppy just passed away. He is lifeless and dejected. When you have a $9 million dollar player looking like that it trickles down to the rest of the team.

This is why I am interested in JT Miller, if for no other reason than to get the tampons and diaper dispensers out of the room. Get Mika off PP1. Trade Mika in the offseason to open the cap back up. If you can get VAN to retain a bit that JTM aav will look even better as the cap rises. This past offseason you saw insane contracts go out to 30+ year olds and that was before knowing the cap would be increasing in a healthy manner. This team wont go into a rebuild and while this season may be a lost cause (even if they make the playoffs) they need to start preparing for next season which they consider to still be in their “window” and competing for a cup. Starting shifting the personnel around, out with some of the trash. Remodel the Team a bit to resurface things. JT Miller and go from there. Get Lindgren the f*** out of here unless he takes a new contract under $2.5 AAV per year, which he absolutely wont. Because I guarantee you can find a veteran D on the market for the same money or less with the same output or even better play. TBD on Reilly Smith. Depends on what someone is willing to pay plus where we are at the deadline. He has been good the past month or so. But doesn’t mean we should self rent unless the market is underwhelming for him and we are heading towards a WC spot.

Could we get JT Miller for a package that doesn’t include Chytil? I doubt it. Plus Chytil probably has to go to make the $$ work. But Chytil is our best skater and puck carrier imo. He pushes the pace of play when on the ice. No one else is doing that. JTM can so he would be replacing that but it would have been nice adding JTM to that.

Believe me, I hate losing Chytil and his speed but we need to trade him before his next big hit. Also, imo Mika is never waiving his nmc as long as Kreider is here.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Mika, Kreider, Trochek, Lafreniere, Panarin and Chytil are all worse than they were last year, its gonna have an effect on everyone on the team, especially offensive dmen

But his numbers are basically the same. I’m saying he looks slower. Other players arent gonna make his skating deteriorate, aging isnt contagious

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

i’ll be real, i’m concerned about how Fox looks. I know hes still on pace for 70 points but he doesnt look like the same player. Spare me the lindgren shit, I know he sucks, but Fox himself looks slower and weaker. As a guy who was always slow, he can’t afford to lose a step.

I think many of us saw his offseason “training” and had concerns coming into this year.

 

[will1066]

Kreider is a combination of physically hurt and emotionally hurt. Both can be addressed by sitting the f***ing guy because he is AWFUL out there. That slam dunk play last night is always a “slam dunk” for him. As recent as last year. Age matters but he didn’t just all the sudden fall off where he can’t execute on even a play like that. He is making mistakes all over the ice. A blatant egregious and LAZY turnover for the CAR 3rd goal. He needs to sit. I don’t think he has enough trade value right now. He has been relegated to 3rd line minutes. I am less interested in moving him and more concerned with Mika Zibanejad, who I have defended forever. But no more. This guy is an utter clown. He is pathetic. Mentally weak. Physically weak. Confidence is a major issue for him and he cannot overcome it. He had a golden chance in the slot during the 1st period last night and couldn’t bury it.

The Team desperately needs a culture change. Panarin isn’t a major problem for me. Last 2 games yes, but overall he is still a 90+ point player. As @mas0764 said its ok to have a few perimeter players IF they are productive. The major issue is Mika Zibanejad. He is at the epicenter of it all. His body language and facial expressions look like his puppy just passed away. He is lifeless and dejected. When you have a $9 million dollar player looking like that it trickles down to the rest of the team.

This is why I am interested in JT Miller, if for no other reason than to get the tampons and diaper dispensers out of the room. Get Mika off PP1. Trade Mika in the offseason to open the cap back up. If you can get VAN to retain a bit that JTM aav will look even better as the cap rises. This past offseason you saw insane contracts go out to 30+ year olds and that was before knowing the cap would be increasing in a healthy manner. This team wont go into a rebuild and while this season may be a lost cause (even if they make the playoffs) they need to start preparing for next season which they consider to still be in their “window” and competing for a cup. Start shifting the personnel around, out with some of the trash. Remodel the Team a bit to resurface things. JT Miller and go from there. Get Lindgren the f*** out of here unless he takes a new contract under $2.5 AAV per year, which he absolutely wont. Because I guarantee you can find a veteran D on the market for the same money or less with the same output or even better play. TBD on Reilly Smith. Depends on what someone is willing to pay plus where we are at the deadline. He has been good the past month or so. But doesn’t mean we should self rent unless the market is underwhelming for him and we are heading towards a WC spot.

Could we get JT Miller for a package that doesn’t include Chytil? I doubt it. Plus Chytil probably has to go to make the $$ work. But Chytil is our best skater and puck carrier imo. He pushes the pace of play when on the ice. No one else is doing that. JTM can so he would be replacing that but it would have been nice adding JTM to that.

The thought that JT coming here just to be rid of them grows stronger in my head by the day. Just because we know JT will play in the paint if nothing else.

 

[will1066]

Mika, Kreider, Trochek, Lafreniere, Panarin and Chytil are all worse than they were last year, its gonna have an effect on everyone on the team, especially offensive dmen



Believe me, I hate losing Chytil and his speed but we need to trade him before his next big hit. Also, imo Mika is never waiving his nmc as long as Kreider is here.

I thought putting Kaliyev and Kreider with Chytil would've been a good mixture of skills, but it's looking like those two are just slowing Chytil down. He should be centering Panarin, pushing people back and creating some room for Panarin to work.

 

[RGY]

Mika, Kreider, Trochek, Lafreniere, Panarin and Chytil are all worse than they were last year, its gonna have an effect on everyone on the team, especially offensive dmen



Believe me, I hate losing Chytil and his speed but we need to trade him before his next big hit. Also, imo Mika is never waiving his nmc as long as Kreider is here.

I agree, the other concern is Chytil’s health. They should cash in and mitigate asset devaluation.

They got Trouba out of town. I am sure there is a path for Mika. Kreider won’t be here forever. Contract is almost up. So if there is a team/place interested in Mika that he can be comfortable settling his family into he may be willing to waive if he sees the writing on the wall. Worst case you buy him out. I dont care if he signs somewhere else and produces, he is such a p****, cant have that around anymore.

 

[LokiDog]

This place is hilarious. I was super active 2-4 weeks ago and a lot of my takes (needing to build around center, Borgen is ideally a 5/6 not a second pairing guy, Fox is becoming worrisome despite his production still being there, etc) were not very popular, so I backed off a bit. In the last few pages I see those same takes being posted and many posters who shouted me down for having them, liking the posts that are expressing them now.

 

[RGY]

The thought that JT coming here just to be rid of them grows stronger in my head by the day. Just because we know JT will play in the paint if nothing else.

I was not on board with JTM. I liked him as a Ranger although he became a very frustrating player towards the end here in 2018. It was likely due to his immaturity but he was just careless and would check out on plays at times. However I never wanted to trade him, certainly not as a throw-in for that McDonagh trade. Fast forward 7 years later he is going to be 32 with multiple years and an $8 million aav. I have been on the fence about him. All these rumors out there about how he is as a teammate and in the locker room. But this team specifically needs to get uncomfortable. This group is way too comfortable. As Keenan said you have to do things that are uncomfortable if you want to win a cup.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

This place is hilarious. I was super active 2-4 weeks ago and a lot of my takes (needing to build around center, Borgen is ideally a 5/6 not a second pairing guy, Fox is becoming worrisome despite his production still being there, etc) were not very popular, so I backed off a bit. In the last few pages I see those same takes being posted and many posters who shouted me down for having them, liking the posts that are expressing them now.
View attachment 968999

I wouldn’t run your victory lap, this place is hardly reasonable coming off of a bad loss.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I wouldn’t run your victory lap, this place is hardly reasonable coming off of a bad loss.

True, but a couple nice wins had some people delusional as well. The next 2019 Blues!

 

[RGY]

Adding guys like JTM and Gourde would do wonders for this group of pussalias.

 

[SA16]

But his numbers are basically the same. I’m saying he looks slower. Other players arent gonna make his skating deteriorate, aging isnt contagious

I don't know whether or not he "looks slower" but according to the data he is not slower. His top speed is actually up a touch over each of the last two years and his bursts are basically identical three years running.

 

[bl02]

It would be a real kick in the balls to trade Chytil and keep 93 and a slow ass Lafreniere.
Who the hell on this team is gonna carry the puck thru the neutral zone? lol

Adding guys like JTM and Gourde would do wonders for this group of pussalias.

problem is most likely the same pussalias will be here. The sacrificial ones would be the guys like Sykora and Chytil who are not pussalias

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

It would be a real kick in the balls to trade Chytil and keep 93 and a slow ass Lafreniere.
Who the hell on this team is gonna carry the puck thru the neutral zone? lol

It’s insane how we have literally one player on the roster who is capable (or willing) to do this basic ass thing.

 

[bl02]

It’s insane how we have literally one player on the roster who is capable (or willing) to do this basic ass thing.

Ironically the guy with the most to lose considering his injury history.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

True, but a couple nice wins had some people delusional as well. The next 2019 Blues!

This is also true lol.

The playoff pals weren’t being realistic either and didn’t account for the fact that this team can’t afford an extended losing streak. If they drop their next 2-3 it’s curtains for this team.

 

[LokiDog]

I wouldn’t run your victory lap, this place is hardly reasonable coming off of a bad loss.

It happens every time. Every year. I call stuff as I see it, people don’t like it, and within 2 weeks - 2 months it becomes a standard talking point on our boards. It rarely gets acknowledged. Does it matter if the board is reasonable or not after a loss? Do we realllllly think Borgen should be on the second pair of a contender? Are we realllllly going to act like Fox’s skating isn’t an actual point of concern and he looks nowhere near the net positive he was in his first few years? Are we really going to act like this team and this forward group is ever going anywhere with the centers it has and complete lack of centers in the system? It’s exactly what I said it was a month ago. You say this board isn’t reasonable after a loss. I say this board is even more unreasonable after a win. The fact that anyone can watch this team, win or lose, and think that we should be buyers or that this group has Cup aspirations at this stage of their time together is mind boggling, but all it takes is two wins and people are right back to posting about what we should be trading FOR at the deadline.

That’s a lot less reasonable, IMO. With the main characters being what they are at this point of their careers/tenures, how anyone can think this team is anything but the definition of middling and mediocre is beyond my comprehension. We saw such horrid hockey for a while that when this team manages to simply not look as if they’d struggle in the AHL we started seeing “that was one of the best games of the year” posts. And this is exactly what we have done with our prospects and our overall culture. We got so used to absolutely disappointing crap from Laf and Kakko that when they would have a game where they got a secondary assist by accident and skated in the correct direction most of the night we celebrated it as progress. We get so accustomed to crap that we exalt mediocrity as excellence. Because it feels excellent compared to the crap we usually get. But it isn’t genuine excellence. It’s absolute mediocrity.

And another one of my constant takes, since Hank’s days - the elite goalie will mask the problems and so we will never address them, nor be bad enough to draft the center we need to change this franchise. And what did Shesterkin do this past month? Prop up a pathetically mediocre team.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

The boys must've read that article because they almost immediately threw their feet up and took a load off once it was written

Yup, they saw one whiff of positive media attention and they were like "mission accomplished boys, we're a good team again!" and sat back and relaxed.