Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XVI (Playoffs or Retool?)

[kovazub94]

No, I’m not throwing in Berard. f*** that.

I would also much prefer to deal Lafreniere than Chytil.

Kill off Lafreniere and K’Andre Miller, and the season will be a success.

Your handle should change to bad or worse intentions

 

[UnSandvich]

No trade will be happening until after tonight’s game or tomorrow, if at all to happen in the next 24 hours. The Rangers cannot afford to play down a 3C and Top 4D minutes eater when they desperately need points.

Also, a Cuylle-Miller-Kane line has a nice ring to it.

Why exactly are we trading Cuylle to Detroit?

 

[Profet]

To be fair, Adam Fox.

We gave up a second round pick for a player that was literally untradeable to any other team in the league.

I realize second rounds picks are a crap shoot... but they aren't throw in's.

Retrospectively you make that trade all day long... but at the time, we still weren't sure what Fox was.

 

[Callafan24]

I'm at least happy that Drury is trying to use Lindgren and Chytil to upgrade our roster. Love Chytil but he's a few hits away from LTIR, and we're trying to upgrade on Lindgren anyways.

I think we should have a deadline strategy of upgrading where we can (perhaps JTM or a top LD) and selling off secondary assets like Smith, Borgen, Carrick etc... to replenish some mid-round picks.

From there we sign a few smart deals this off-season and we're in a better position tomorrow than we are today.

 

[LokiDog]

We gave up a second round pick for a player that was literally untradeable to any other team in the league.

I realize second rounds picks are a crap shoot... but they aren't throw in's.

Retrospectively you make that trade all day long... but at the time, we still weren't sure what Fox was.

2nd and a 3rd I think... one was conditional. I honestly can't remember. You guys are both right in this position. Yes, Fox forced his way here and we probably could have literally said "if you want anything for him, here's a 4th, otherwise we'll wait til his rights expire and he'll sign with us" and yes, in hindsight, you never complain about paying the price we paid for the player that we got... but, it's true that we rarely seem to be the ones playing hardball and we end up spending assets or accepting underwhelming returns with regularity, regardless of who is the GM (Gorton and Drury eras, specifically).

 

[Machinehead]

We gave up a second round pick for a player that was literally untradeable to any other team in the league.

I realize second rounds picks are a crap shoot... but they aren't throw in's.

Retrospectively you make that trade all day long... but at the time, we still weren't sure what Fox was.

A 2nd round pick is belly button lint 70-80% of the time.

You knew he was gonna be an NHL player. You give up a 2nd to avoid free agency.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It’s tough to complain about Fox and his return when you see what cutter Gauthier and Rutger Mcgroarty returned.

 

[Mikachu93]

People are complaining about what we paid for a top 5 defenseman in the NHL in a trade 6 years ago?

 

[kovazub94]

Does Vancouver not want K'Andre?

The Rangers need to improve the defense and part of that needs to involve a significant personnel change. Miller is never gonna be on the 3rd pairing here for a long time.

Do what you want with the forwards, but Lindgren-Fox, Miller-Borgen, Vaak-Schneider isn't winning a cup. It's borderline disqualifying like our forward group in 2009 was.

I wish the conversations we were having were about guys like Josi, not JT.

Our Miller is not in conversation with Vancouver - if I didn't miss anything they were to take Lindgren which would actually really open the 1LD spot. Otherwise I'd be in agreement with you that I'd sacrifice K'Andre ('s potential) for an established vet who's already at that level minus potential.

 

[Machinehead]

People are complaining about what we paid for a top 5 defenseman in the NHL in a trade 6 years ago?

I don't think people are complaining, necessarily.

Somebody said that we always get bent over in trades where guys want to come to the Rangers and I pointed out Adam Fox because I don't think we gave up all that much.

In Fox's case and in Kane's case, the other team could have just not done the trade. We had to offer something. I wouldn't have for Kane, like at all, but that's a different story.

Miller is signed for awhile and will be a big headache for Vancouver, so there's that, but I'm sure we have some competition this time.

 

[kovazub94]

Not really imo. Until lindgren is gone he is here and if he goes we don’t know who pl will use in his place. Miller will help offensively as a player but I don’t think his compete will force players like panarin or zib to be harder defensively and not cheat leaving the zone. Also Miller is not a defensive forward who will help this team playing team defense. Even with Miller I don't see this team not getting flustered when time and space become smaller and the play becomes more physical.

You can't expect Drury to fix the whole lineup in one day / trade (the closest to this is TDL and fist couple of days of free agency). Even in what sequence these transactions are done is not how fans line them up in their heads. I fully believe that Lindgren is on the block to be replaced in-season as Drury's option #1. I have less confidence but it is possible that he looks to improve 1LD spot while simultaneously retaining Lindgren for depth. I'm even less convince that he will settle to have only Lindgren and not try to improve LD.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Drury needs to go. Another reason I don’t give a shit about playoffs this year. Clean that house.

@FIRE DRURY

 

[McRanger92]

Spittin Chiclets guys believe JT has asked for a trade, but is denying it to the media. Only question left for me is if he requested a trade specifically to the Rangers are if he is open to other locations. I dont think Drury wants to see him go to carolina or New Jersey, but those teams also arent seamless fits for him. Canucks play Buffalo tonight.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

To be fair, Adam Fox.

We still had people complaining over this.

 

[bernmeister]

How would everyone feel if the player included was not Chmelar but instead was Edstrom? I have been thinking on this for a while and I wonder if Edstrom is the type of guy the Rangers like, but could move in the right scenario. He's 24 and has 7 points in 42 games. He's solid defensively and uses his size well. I'm not saying I would want to move him, but the Rangers appear to have a few guys developing who could fill that type of role. Perhaps the trade is:

Chytil + Edstrom + Lindgren + ________ for Miller + Desharnais

The Rangers could have been close to recalling both Sykora and Chmelar to have them both at practice and see who they like to fill that role. Both guys have been effective this year and project as bottom-6 guys.

keep Eds, Chmelar, deal Sykora
uphold the usually true adage:
the good big man usually beats the good little man

Edstrom, Chmelar have size and more upside
we unfortunately likely need to include Chytil
we should only take Desh as a backscratch concession [can't skate = useless]

Trading Edstrom to keep Chmelar would be some galaxy brain stuff and a huge mistake. One is an effective bottom 6 player already and the other would be lucky to carve out an NHL career.

see above

Don't think Chmelar vs Edstrom is what's holding the trade. Don't see much difference to be honest since I don't think Chmelar's potential is far off from Edstrom's. Is there a reason you'd like to hold on to one vs the other?

see above

Loss to Devils was addressed by replacing Galant. Loss to FL is being addressed by replacing Trouba and (expected) Lindgren and adding JTM. With healthy Fox. Not enough?

no, not enuf
also, as I've said many times
best strategy is to extend window w/mostly quality youth = more chances to compete for cup

now that said, in totality of circumstances
jtm has pros and cons and if the price is right for scraps + only small +, in this instance can get behind him coming here as a one off exception transaction supplemental to regular strategy

Rangers badly need a top 6(top line) forward who can match up with the other teams top players. Florida and Tampa series over the years showed it can't be Mika. From a hockey perspective, JT is a huge need. I dont get why everyone is on the rebuild and tank train after a bad month. Childish.

Get this deal done sooner than later.

Agree Mika is not/has demonstrated not
to be the answer

Howev, we need to be on rebuild b'c the older vet core DOES NOT DESERVE ANOTHER CRACK AT THIS
we are better off w/proper rebuild per bern

some say 1 def of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting dif results

learn w/da bern

If we did land JT and Laf/Miller arent involved.

Would anyone here bat an eye if we called up Ottawa and offered Laf+KM for Sanderson?

Sanderson is at this point I think established even at this young on his career. Laf and KM are still a gamble for NYR and OTT. But the upside for both of them probably trumps Sanderson if they both explode.

Maybe we add Garand and they add a lower pick and we take one of their goalie contracts and bury it in HFT?

Didnt think this totaly through but your post got me thinking and im on the road. So its a quick hit for me.

I have tried that past 3 yrs, Sanderson here for something often variations including LaF

they want LaF but won't budge on Sand.

our best deal here is
Fox + earlier 2nd
for
Kleven, Pinto, Greig + later 1st

 

[surlysailor]

You can't expect Drury to fix the whole lineup in one day / trade (the closest to this is TDL and fist couple of days of free agency). Even in what sequence these transactions are done is not how fans line them up in their heads. I fully believe that Lindgren is on the block to be replaced in-season as Drury's option #1. I have less confidence but it is possible that he looks to improve 1LD spot while simultaneously retaining Lindgren for depth. I'm even less convince that he will settle to have only Lindgren and not try to improve LD.

I'm not saying I expect that, I'm just going based off your crystal ball comment and why you think they'd beat NJD, FL etc.. I don't think this team will be able to match up well against Fl, NJD, Car(esp if they upgrade goalie), even with the addition to Miller. .Going back to the reg season, sure they beat NJD last time they met but almost all reg season games against FL, NJD, TB, Wash the NYR outplayed. Miller while a good player is not going to get them through that. We've seen this core and they refuse to adapt to other teams, they're stubborn and keep trying to force things and they also can't handle teams that pressure them.

 

[Savant]

Spittin Chiclets guys believe JT has asked for a trade, but is denying it to the media. Only question left for me is if he requested a trade specifically to the Rangers are if he is open to other locations. I dont think Drury wants to see him go to carolina or New Jersey, but those teams also arent seamless fits for him. Canucks play Buffalo tonight.

If JT is as bad in the locker room as everyone says he is, you would think Quinn Hughes may have told his brothers. Not buying NJ as a destination. Can definitely see Carolina though, especially if it’s for the package we’ve heard down here which centers on Kotkaniemi and selling high on Roslovic

 

[NYR Viper]

K'Andre Miller is clearly having a down season, but he is still clearly a 2nd pairing d-man who is 25 (25 today actually, HBD K'Andre!). If Drury can get him signed at just shy of $5m per season, I'd still re-sign him. That's a really good contract for what is still a very talented and effective 2nd paring d-man. At that salary range, you likely aren't getting someone else who has no warts either

 

[McRanger92]

If JT is as bad in the locker room as everyone says he is, you would think Quinn Hughes may have told his brothers. Not buying NJ as a destination. Can definitely see Carolina though, especially if it’s for the package we’ve heard down here which centers on Kotkaniemi and selling high on Roslovic

Well JT knows he is badly wanted in NY. You'd think that would be a factor after getting kicked to the curb by a Vancouver team he has been excellent for. Trocheck relationship I think is a factor as well.

 

[kovazub94]

We gave up a second round pick for a player that was literally untradeable to any other team in the league.

I realize second rounds picks are a crap shoot... but they aren't throw in's.

Retrospectively you make that trade all day long... but at the time, we still weren't sure what Fox was.

These GMs are a small group. These trades can't have an attitude of one and done. There are exceptions but you don't want to make your trade partner feel completely taken advantage off in these situations for obvious (future) reasons.

 

[LOFIN]

Spittin Chiclets guys believe JT has asked for a trade, but is denying it to the media. Only question left for me is if he requested a trade specifically to the Rangers are if he is open to other locations. I dont think Drury wants to see him go to carolina or New Jersey, but those teams also arent seamless fits for him. Canucks play Buffalo tonight.

I think Seravalli said yesterday on Sportsnet 650, that his understanding is that Miller is pretty lenient on his NMC. So it's not Rangers or bust.

He's probably going to Carolina

 

[McRanger92]

I think Seravalli said yesterday on Sportsnet 650, that his understanding is that Miller is pretty lenient on his NMC. So it's not Rangers or bust.

He's probably going to Carolina

Well if he goes there for Kotkaniemi and Roslovic, we move forward. But that would be another strikeout for Drury haggling over draft pick conditions.

 

[NYR Viper]

Well if he goes there for Kotkaniemi and Roslovic, we move forward. But that would be another strikeout for Drury haggling over draft pick conditions.

I'm okay with Drury wanting to protect his 1st round picks.

 

[effen]

We gave up a second round pick for a player that was literally untradeable to any other team in the league.

I realize second rounds picks are a crap shoot... but they aren't throw in's.

Retrospectively you make that trade all day long... but at the time, we still weren't sure what Fox was.

What should they have given for him? A 5th?

If I'm Carolina I'd sacrifice a 5th all day for a reputation that I won't be lowballed and college draft picks who want out can pound sand.

Really easy choice actually. A 4th???? Ooooo *wavy fingers*.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Well if he goes there for Kotkaniemi and Roslovic, we move forward. But that would be another strikeout for Drury haggling over draft pick conditions.

Dury haggling over trade protection is the correct move.
We’re not sitting in a playoff spot. We could slide down and give up a lotto pick.
A lotto pick is more valuable long term than miller.