Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XVI (Playoffs or Retool?)

[mas0764]

how much better is this team if we replace Kreider, Zibs and Lindgren with NHL replacement level players?

Say, Berard, JTM and or a Pettersson/Walman as LHD

We should target Pettersson over Miller if we're giving up big assets.

 

[McRanger92]

So again, if we are moving Kreider, Mika, and Panarin, what the heck is the point of acquiring a 32 year old?

Because they aren't rebuilding. JT Miller is a long term commitment. Just because you don't like how old he is doesn't change that. It's doubtful they even trade Panarin or Mika. And do I really need to explain how replacing Kreider with JT Miller makes us a better team?

 

[bhamill]

Because you can't have a team of 22 year olds.

Peep the last 2 winners, they've skewed older. Florida wasn't brewing with young home grown talent. That roster was almost entirely put together via trades and UFA.

Same with the last 4 finalists.... Really basically every finalist between now and forever.

They should be looking for younger, long term solutions in some spots (1LD) but if you can get a bargain, you take the bargain no matter how old the player is.

This is reasonable.

 

[mas0764]

Because you can't have a team of 22 year olds.

Peep the last 2 winners, they've skewed older. Florida wasn't brewing with young home grown talent. That roster was almost entirely put together via trades and UFA.

Same with the last 4 finalists.... Really basically every finalist between now and forever.

They should be looking for younger, long term solutions in some spots (1LD) but if you can get a bargain, you take the bargain no matter how old the player is.

The talent wasn't home grown but it kinda dwarfed what we have and it wasn't 32. Their core was all 26-28.

And the thing is, you get a bunch of 24 year olds and you don't win the first year. You have a 4-6 year window.

 

[McRanger92]

We should target Pettersson over Miller if we're giving up big assets.

We're not giving up big assets for JT and Pettersson's current team has buyer's remorse on his contract 6 months in. 11.6 million. People really want to replace Panarin with another Panarin because he's 26 and Swedish.

 

[Gardner McKay]

We should target Pettersson over Miller if we're giving up big assets.

In theory, I agree. In reality, I wonder what the actual cost difference is between Miller and Petterson.

 

[mas0764]

We're not giving up big assets for JT and Pettersson's current team has buyer's remorse on his contract 6 months in. 11.6 million. People really want to replace Panarin with another Panarin because he's 26 and Swedish.

I would love a refreshed 26 year old Panarin who played center here.

I don't think Panarin is the problem.

 

[McRanger92]

I would love a refreshed 26 year old Panarin who played center here.

I don't think Panarin is the problem.

What about Pettersson's play in Vancouver has screamed "refreshed" this year? He was almost traded to Carolina 48 hours ago. JT Miller is outscoring him in fewer games.

 

[leetch99]

We're not giving up big assets for JT and Pettersson's current team has buyer's remorse on his contract 6 months in. 11.6 million. People really want to replace Panarin with another Panarin because he's 26 and Swedish.

Chytil for Miller is not big assets ....I agree with that . It is basically two clubs making the best of possible bad situations . The Canucks could easily end up with nothing if Chytil goes down for the count . They likely do some kind of a games played reward type deal on a draft pick . Is that allowed by the CBA ? If the Rangers get 3-4 maybe good years out of Miller they likely will be happy . Get it done Drury so he does not get the stuffing kicked out of him again .

 

[mas0764]

What about Pettersson's play in Vancouver has screamed "refreshed" this year? He was almost traded to Carolina 48 hours ago. JT Miller is outscoring him in fewer games.

Well your argument was "people really want to replace 32 year old Panarin with 26 year old Panarin," and the answer to that would be yes.

If your argument is "He's not as good as you remember and would cost too many assets and cap dollars," that's certainly a reasonable point.

What would be a terrible idea is not rebuilding or "retooling," or whatever word helps you sleep at night, but I'm sure their interest in Miller signals that they will ride this not-good-enough-core to the bitter end and we can go on never winning a Cup for another generation. Yeah, maybe Miller plus a broken down Mika, Kreider and Panarin will finally get over the hump.... in like, the 18 months before Miller rapidly declines.

 

[bernmeister]

I would think that instead of the young player it would be any roster player (or playerS), who the trading team needs to move to make caproom. Kreider is something a contending team could be interested in as a veteran presence and PP weapon in front of the net. But those teams can't afford to give all the type of assets you just described.

Then eff them
Kreider does NOT have to go NOW
If at all, he can go later when he is more healed, in better shape -> returns more

If a suitor will not overpay now, eff that, no discounts for CK
due to improved upside w/better health
other guys, case by case basis

bern pls

I'm Kreider's biggest defender and Smith has been better in every way imaginable this year.

Kreider looks cooked. Maybe it's just a bad year and he turns it around, but he looks like he's hitting that wall.

dif between obv struggling on and off due to back and being totally cooked, period

I disagree as to Smith looking, let alone being, better, esp "in every way".

Every time I see that Kreider has 2 assists as a member of our top powerplay unit, I die a little inside. I know he's not known for his passing but he had 36 last year.

If he goes to the Four Nations it would be such a fraud move. He probably shouldnt have even made the team in the first place, but the country club permeates beyond the Rangers.

Again w/the assists!!
Whose fault is it Zib can't finish???
CK's??
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

pls stop w/false narrative
unless unassisted a G is a joint effort
assigning principal blame on ck is not just

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

If we trade Kreider for futures, I wonder the chances of seeing Perreault in that 3rd line LW spot at the end of the year

I am convinced Lindgren is gone by the TDL and replaced short term (this season) with a guy we get for like a 5th

It is also clear Drury wants to make somewhat of a splash to being in a top line forward who he likes to shape the team more towards his image

Perrault is not playing this season

 

[SA16]

We should target Pettersson over Miller if we're giving up big assets.

Would you be willing to sign Pettersson to a buy-out proof 7x11.6 deal with a full NMC if he was a UFA this off-season? Consider that he has 31 points in 42 games this year. What if he's more of an 85 point player than the 102 point player he was 2+ seasons back? I don't think I'd trade anything for him. That contract could have very negative value.

 

[Machinehead]

Pettersson has supernatural talent.

I think he can give more. All this talent Vancouver has had since he was drafted and they never seem to get it right. Something stinks there.

I know something stinks here too in a lot of ways, but we tend to get a lot of reclamation guys who are already pros, as opposed to our own prospects.

Just a thought. Price is a whole nother factor but that would be the appeal for me.

 

[mas0764]

Would you be willing to sign Pettersson to a buy-out proof 7x11.6 deal with a full NMC if he was a full NMC this off-season? Consider that he has 31 points in 42 games. I don't think I'd trade anything for him. That contract could have very negative value.

To be honest the best course of action would be stripping this team down, keeping the few long term pieces you have, and maintaining flexibility but they won't do that.

Locking into a 32 year old won't work either. They'll be just good enough to be an early playoff exit. Hurray.

Who looks at this team with Kreider finished, Mika finished, Panarin almost finished, Trocheck having already posted his best year, Lafreniere never having taken the step to stardom, and then says, "Yeah, this team is ready to beat Colorado in a 7 game series, if we add Miller"?

It's fantasy.

 

[McRanger92]

Well your argument was "people really want to replace 32 year old Panarin with 26 year old Panarin," and the answer to that would be yes.

If your argument is "He's not as good as you remember and would cost too many assets and cap dollars," that's certainly a reasonable point.

What would be a terrible idea not rebuilding or "retooling," or whatever word helps you sleep at night, but I'm sure their interest in Miller signals that they will ride this not good enough core to the bitter end and we can go on never winning a Cup for another generation.

You can cope in however way you see fit but you can't ignore the core has already been significantly changed since last season and the underlying results have been very positive since those changes settled and weren't effected by our embarrassing leadership group. Goodrow, Trouba, Kakko. Overpaid, malcontents, or both. Replaced by better players. The Rangers want a leader who gives a f***, that's why they want JT. It also helps Lafreniere and Cuylle and Perreault, etc. to have a guy like that around. Im not saying no to a discounted bonafide top line C/W who plays in every situation and had 100 points last year just because he's 32.

I know you have your ax to grind against Drury but idk how you can doubt he is motivated to change the core. It's all he's been doing since we lost to Florida.

 

[will1066]

Because they aren't rebuilding. JT Miller is a long term commitment. Just because you don't like how old he is doesn't change that. It's doubtful they even trade Panarin or Mika. And do I really need to explain how replacing Kreider with JT Miller makes us a better team?

If it's making a run, keep Kreider. I see him and Panarin being anchors but still dangerous to pop off a goal or two from out of nowhere. Whether it's a run or a tank, Zibanejad needs to be moved.

 

[SA16]

To be honest the best course of action would be stripping this team down, keeping the few long term pieces you have, and maintaining flexibility but they won't do that.

Locking into a 32 year old won't work either. They'll be just good enough to be an early playoff exit. Hurray.

Who looks at this team with Kreider finished, Mika finished, Panarin almost finished, Trocheck having already posted his best year, Lafreniere never having taken the step to stardom, and then says, "Yeah, this team is ready to beat Colorado in a 7 game series, if we add Miller"?

It's fantasy.

The 32 year old would not be locked in though. He doesn't have a full NMC throughout and the contract can theoretically be bought out if needed. You can easily try him out for a few years and see how things go. Also, from everything we've heard, the cost to acquire him may be vastly less despite his contract being potentially far more team friendly

 

[mas0764]

You can cope in however way you see fit but you can't ignore the core has already been significantly changed since last season and the underlying results have been very positive since those changes settled and weren't effected by our embarrassing leadership group. Goodrow, Trouba, Kakko. Overpaid, malcontents, or both. Replaced by better players. The Rangers want a leader who gives a f***, that's why they want JT. It also helps Lafreniere and Cuylle and Perreault, etc. to have a guy like that around. Im not saying no to a discounted bonafide top line C/W who plays in every situation and had 100 points last year just because he's 32.

I know you have your ax to grind against Drury but idk how you can doubt he is motivated to change the core. It's all he's been doing since we lost to Florida.

Changing the core is only good if it results in a sustainable approach that yields a team that can win Cups.

If it's Miller in, Mika out, and then Drury pulls five rabbits out of his hat to get some mid-20s studs in here, then great.

But I'm not sure how he's gonna do that by acquiring 32 year olds. They'll win nothing if the approach is to add Miller to this core, and if the idea is to add Miller but subtract the rest of the core then that won't work either until they've rebuilt an actual young core by which time Miller won't matter, he'll be 34-35 at best.

Maybe he's a mentor piece? I guess I could live with that.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I do have respect for, and feel for, Ryan Lindgren the person. Has given so much for this team and I’m sure wants to be around.

However, giving up assets for JT Miller while keeping Lindgren would be just an impossibly dumb series of decisions by Drury. Both those things can’t happen.

 

[SA16]

I do have respect for, and feel for, Ryan Lindgren the person. Has given so much for this team and I’m sure wants to be around.

However, giving up assets for JT Miller while keeping Lindgren would be just an impossibly dumb series of decisions by Drury. Both those things can’t happen.

I don't see what one has to do with the other. I'm not going to pass on making one move if I can get the player for a low value because I'm not able to make a second move.

 

[McRanger92]

Changing the core is only good if it results in a sustainable approach that yields a team that can win Cups.

Ok what's the plan then Nostradamus? Another 3 years of rebuilding like Detroit, Buffalo and Ottawa? Our fanbase has no idea how good we have it. So much entitlement.

 

[mas0764]

If it's making a run, keep Kreider. I see him and Panarin being anchors but still dangerous to pop off a goal or two from out of nowhere. Whether it's a run or a tank, Zibanejad needs to be moved.

You can't keep Kreider and be serious about winning.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Changing the core is only good if it results in a sustainable approach that yields a team that can win Cups.

If it's Miller in, Mika out, and then Drury pulls five rabbits out of his hat to get some mid-20s studs in here, then great.

But I'm not sure how he's gonna do that by acquiring 32 year olds. They'll win nothing if the approach is to add Miller to this core, and if the idea is to add Miller but subtract the rest of the core then that won't work either until they've rebuilt an actual young core by which time Miller won't matter, he'll be 34-35 at best.

Maybe he's a mentor piece? I guess I could live with that.

I mean Miller in and Mika out is a win. But it certainly doesn’t “extend our window” or make us instant contenders again.

 

[mas0764]

Ok what's the plan then Nostradamus? Another 3 years of rebuilding like Detroit, Buffalo and Ottawa? Our fanbase has no idea how good we have it. So much entitlement.

3 years of rebuilding that resulted in a sustainable Cup contender would be better than 7 more years of second round playoff exits.

This team isn't good enough. It wasn't good enough when Kreider and Mika were actually productive.

Bringing in another 32 year old is re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

You need Cup winning players and we have very few at the moment. Miller doesn't get us substantially closer. What's the rest of the plan?

The Rangers plan should be acquire assets and try again. Talk about spoiled and entitled, we half-assed it last time and it still resulted in 2 conference finals appearances. Maybe we should try going full measures this time and it can bring us a Cup? With our assets a proper rebuild could put us in that top tier.

I mean Miller in and Mika out is a win. But it certainly doesn’t “extend our window” or make us instant contenders again.

It's a win, as others have said, merely because you get out of an unmoveable deal.

But if you can move Mika anyway, without bringing in Miller, I don't see the point.