I dunno, face offs seems like an odd hill to die on for stat people. You guys don't think they're important, that's fine. Or maybe the stat people just try and disregard things they can't put a value to.
Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XV
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I dunno, face offs seems like an odd hill to die on for stat people. You guys don't think they're important, that's fine. Or maybe the stat people just try and disregard things they can't put a value to.
- Aug 5, 2010
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No you're certainly not, and no one is saying that winning a face-off is worse than losing it because it is obvious.
But these variables have DIFFERENT levels of impacts on the ultimate result. What you just did in the post above is gave the same value to wining a face-offs and a random ricochet. How about off-sides? Surely over a large enough sample size it contributes to a lost possession and eventually a negative GF%. Is it an important statistic to start tracking too?
I didn't give the same value, or at least that wasn't my intent, I acknowledged they have the ability to impact a game, like many other factors. But a face off is a fundamental part of the game, they happen frequently, coaches draw up plays specifically for them. That's different than a random carom off the boards or other freak play.
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
I mean it’s just not something that even needs to be delved into that deeply. No one will disagree that 9/10 shots don’t go in the net. Assuming you’re 10/10 on face offs one night, and assuming the other team can’t prevent any shots, that’s still 1 goal from going 100%. In reality face offs are ~50%, some of which are scrums and not clean, then the winning team doesn’t always keep the puck long enough for a shot, so after 10 face offs you’re taking maybe 3 shots against a 90% SV%. Obviously in extreme circumstances like the dying seconds of a game you don’t want to take any chances by not having your best guy out there.
They’re certainly important in that a center who’s never practiced face offs a day in his life with lose every one he takes, but that doesn’t happen in the NHL. And let’s be real: in the modern NHL the refs are kicking the centers out of the dot half the time anyway.
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Gluten Free Breadman
Registered User
Should we have Tony DeAngelo take faceoffs? He is clearly a step ahead of his teammates in this department. According to his player profile on nhl . com, he has 100% win ratio.
Not sure why Quinn hates him
Not sure why Quinn hates him
I think there’s more value to face offs than just what’s being measured here. It isn’t just about possession equaling shot attempts equaling potential goals. Possession chews clock. Possession makes the other team chase and tire. Even a face off win that results in zero shots on goal but 20 seconds of zone time and another face off in the offensive zone or neutral zone has value. Having the puck is a good thing. Making the other team play defense is a good thing. If you’re ~35% on draws as a team you’re chasing a lot. You’re on your heals a lot. Face offs tilt the ice a bit. Many things do. It’s just a part of the puzzle.
SA16
Sixstring
Faceoffs matter on special teams and in OT.
They are meaningless, in the aggregate, at 5v5.
They are meaningless, in the aggregate, at 5v5.
- Jan 18, 2012
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howztheglass
Registered User
- Jan 27, 2009
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Every center goes for the win on the draw by nature. Rangers are around 40-45% on draws and the NHL average on tie up is 50% maybe instead of winning the draw just tie the other center up and have the wings break in.
Can’t be worst then us losing most face offs.
Can’t be worst then us losing most face offs.
Kreider reminds me a lot of Peter Mahovilich. Big guy, great skater, always looked like he was capable of much more. Very disappointing for his first 4-5 years in the league. Eventually he ended up on a line with Guy Lafleur and Steve Shutt and produced a lot more.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
You're asking the people who gushed over corsi for four seasons if shooting is important?
Running head first into the point and missing it anyway.
Send Howden down ASAP. Get him the f*** out of here. Let him figure his life out with Coach Knoblauch.
If Trouba is out, call up Keane. I cannot watch Brendan Smith drag ass around the ice anymore.
Call up Nieves or Fogarty.
Maybe see what veteran forward is out there for cheap. Cannot have Haley and Smith playing forward. Its disgraceful.
edit: send Lias down too. His game is shot right now.
If Trouba is out, call up Keane. I cannot watch Brendan Smith drag ass around the ice anymore.
Call up Nieves or Fogarty.
Maybe see what veteran forward is out there for cheap. Cannot have Haley and Smith playing forward. Its disgraceful.
edit: send Lias down too. His game is shot right now.
Well for starters he was -3 after playing about 4 minutes. I gave up checking the game sheet after that.
Chalfdiggity3
Registered User
Anyone still believe we are a playoff team after this beatdown? We will be in the lottery and hopefully draft another beast forward in the top 5.
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
- 45,072
- 40,924
that is the ideal anyway , one more early pick
trade Kreider and Strome ...
after that all the trade chips are gone and it’s time for the kids to really take a step
Staal , Smith likely are not moveable but one more year and they are out the door
Hank also is replaced by Shesty
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SA16
Sixstring
Whether I do or don't why would one game change my mind?
I know I know. Its unfortunate. Because Howden is getting worse and for the betterment of his career he needs to go down and figure things out. Right now every time he gets a start, especially as the 3C, the game, every shift, just passes him by. He looks completely inept out there. Plays are literally dying on his stick.
I Eat Crow
Fear The Mullet
- Jul 9, 2007
- 19,982
- 13,644
Andersson needs a reset badly. Spending a couple of weeks in Hartford won't be the worst thing for him. Nieves isn't an NHL player, but he can be called up to play 7 minutes a night instead of killing Andersson.
Exactly 100%. If we are going to limit Andersson to 7-8 minutes a night then we are wasting his development. Send him down to Hartford for 18-19 minutes per night. Let him get his confidence back. And if he fails then so be it, wasn’t meant to be. Same with Howden. Because its not working for either right now.
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
- 45,072
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Players drafted after Lias in the 1st round with more NHL games played:
Casey Mittelstadt
Robert Thomas
Filip Chytil
Time in the AHL will help him. On the other hand, 7 minutes a night in the NHL isn't "killing" Lias. It's just a different path in his development with the same goal
NYRFANMANI
Department of Rempe Safety Management
We can easily buy Staal out next off-season. Look at the numbers. The team will do it 100%ly.
NYRFANMANI
Department of Rempe Safety Management
Vehemently disagree. Different paths can lead to the same goal ... not in this case though.
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