Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XV

[Gardner McKay]

Kreider has been “trash”....

Definitely hasn’t been anywhere near trash but hey as usual say whatever to fit the narrative.

I would agree. Trash is extremely hyperbolic.

Kreider has been trash anyway. He should be moved regardless.

If you think Kreider has been "trash" then I don't know what to tell you. His 9 points in 16 games is right at where he has produced his entire career and this invisibility show we are seeing from him... also in line with what we have seen from Kreider. Dominate for 10 games, disappear for 10 games.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I would agree. Trash is extremely hyperbolic.



If you think Kreider has been "trash" then I don't know what to tell you. His 9 points in 16 games is right at where he has produced his entire career and this invisibility show we are seeing from him... also in line with what we have seen from Kreider. Dominate for 10 games, disappear for 10 games.

Exactly. The big difference this time is that he started with 10 games of his disappearance act, before starting his dominant stretch. He had a bad start to the season, but "trash" is crazy.

 

[kovazub94]

Exactly. The big difference this time is that he started with 10 games of his disappearance act, before starting his dominant stretch. He had a bad start to the season, but "trash" is crazy.

“Trash”, “garbage”, “dog shit” always make me cringe. Absolutely distasteful IMHO.

 

[wafflepadsave]

I would agree. Trash is extremely hyperbolic.



If you think Kreider has been "trash" then I don't know what to tell you. His 9 points in 16 games is right at where he has produced his entire career and this invisibility show we are seeing from him... also in line with what we have seen from Kreider. Dominate for 10 games, disappear for 10 games.

Which probably doesn’t sit well with Quinn. That’s not what the coach wants from a captain, sell.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

“Trash”, “garbage”, “dog ****” always make me cringe. Absolutely distasteful IMHO.

Welcome to 2019 where there is no middle ground anymore. Players are either GOAT or TRASH.

 

[RGY]

Which probably doesn’t sit well with Quinn. That’s not what the coach wants from a captain, sell.

Except thats not what the coach sees. In fact DQ is favoring him, even with taking faceoffs now because he has been doing well on the dot. So this narrative continues to be wrong. The guy is an all around impactful player that will do whatever for the team.

 

[MrAlmost]

Kreider is one of the most physically imposing players in the league. He is fast, strong, talented, smart and professional. He possess an incredible shot, a good ability to tip the puck and find rebounds and is responsible in his own end.

But, kreider doesn't play like one of the most feared players in the league. He plays soft. He doesnt play as aggressive as he can, an aggression that might see him capable of putting up more points. He could be like Tom Wilson, except probably better. That is the potential everyone is always talking about with kreider. That little extra everyone is waiting for that would see him dominate games on a night by night basis. With a real meanness to his game he would be unstoppable.

However, he just doesnt do it, and you can see that he doesnt do it on purpose. He's making that choice every game he plays to hold back. One can only speculate as to why. Perhaps he doesnt want to break his body down. Maybe he's afraid of hurting someone else, which he has done.

Maybe I'm off base, but in my opinion if you've been around hockey more than a minute it's pretty clear how kreider plays. So if that's the case, and others see something similar, I understand why people call it "trash" and "garbage". It is certainly frustrating to me.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Kreider is one of the most physically imposing players in the league. He is fast, strong, talented, smart and professional. He possess an incredible shot, a good ability to tip the puck and find rebounds and is responsible in his own end.

But, kreider doesn't play like one of the most feared players in the league. He plays soft. He doesnt play as aggressive as he can, an aggression that might see him capable of putting up more points. He could be like Tom Wilson, except probably better. That is the potential everyone is always talking about with kreider. That little extra everyone is waiting for that would see him dominate games on a night by night basis. With a real meanness to his game he would be unstoppable.

However, he just doesnt do it, and you can see that he doesnt do it on purpose. He's making that choice every game he plays to hold back. One can only speculate as to why. Perhaps he doesnt want to break his body down. Maybe he's afraid of hurting someone else, which he has done.

Maybe I'm off base, but in my opinion if you've been around hockey more than a minute it's pretty clear how kreider plays. So if that's the case, and others see something similar, I understand why people call it "trash" and "garbage". It is certainly frustrating to me.

I agree with this. I do like Kreider as a player but he does seem to care a bit too much and maybe that gets in his mind and why he looks like he plays like he does not care. if that makes sense. he seems to overthink on the ice.

 

[MrAlmost]

I agree with this. I do like Kreider as a player but he does seem to care a bit too much and maybe that gets in his mind and why he looks like he plays like he does not care. if that makes sense. he seems to overthink on the ice.

He might be too smart for his own good. Haha

 

[RangersFan1994]

He might be too smart for his own good. Haha

well fans think he is not smart on the ice maybe because he talks to himself on the ice in his own head haha. i want him traded unless he takes the same salary as right now. his speed and size when he uses it is still needed on this team. in a trade I hope they find a similar young player that is big, aggressive and that can skate if they can find his replacement. I love what the Rangers are doing with Lemieux and putting him in front of the goalie on the PP

 

[Fitzy]

Chytil is a career sub 40% in the faceoff circle.

Something he will really need to improve on if he wants to be playing center long term.

 

[True Blue]

Chytil is a career sub 40% in the faceoff circle.

Something he will really need to improve on if he wants to be playing center long term.

The Rangers entire team, aside from ZBad, need to improve in that area.

IF Chytil puts in the time and works on it, he can and will improve. Plenty of centers that cannot win a face off in the league. Just requires commitment to learning.

 

[SA16]

Chytil is a career sub 40% in the faceoff circle.

Something he will really need to improve on if he wants to be playing center long term.

Don't think it matters. If you look at the players with 40+ 5v5 points since last year and at least 500 faceoffs taken (44 players) there is literally 0 correlation between FO% and points scored, FO% and CF%, and FO% and GF%.

 

[Leetch3]

sometimes I come here and think people are dumb and irrational and annoying...then I go to twitter and immediately rush back here like

 

[Tawnos]

Chytil is a career sub 40% in the faceoff circle.

Something he will really need to improve on if he wants to be playing center long term.

He will, but I think it's reasonable to assume that'll happen. IIRC Kevin Hayes was around 35% his first two seasons and has been closer to 50% recently.

 

[TheTakedown]

I think Strome at 4x4 is a deal both team and player would be happy with. He doesn’t want to move again. He was almost out of the league in that Edmonton situation. He’s found a home here he talks about it often. He can play center and wing righty shot. I do not want him on the top line but I do like him as a 3C or 3RW that can move up like he’s doing now and produce when needed. There’s a lot of value in that.

there’s no way I pay Fast a dime more than he’s already making so if he wants to come back it’s not for a raise. Otherwise I let him go.

Kreider is such a tough decision I admittedly flip flop on it. Especially when you see Buchy playing so well. It’s one or the other for me there and I tend to believe Kravtsov can be a better Buchnevich but that remains to be seen.

Staal you’re going to have to buy out or hope he retires this summer. I don’t see a circumstance where he comes back not with these kids solidifying themselves. So you’ll have a few more bucks to work with.

Georgiev as I’ve said I’ve come to the conclusion he will be moved. They aren’t going to give him his next contract. Not with an ELC in Shesterkin dominating the A. Hank isn’t leaving. And they won’t ask him to. Although that would be ideal.

Agreed on all these points.

Fast is aging quicker than I thought. Let him walk, the $1.85M he was being paid could be re-allocated
Girardi's Buyout drops down by $2M
Kreider walks, no way I see him getting a deal at this point. Another $4.625M*
Vlad's retained salary comes off the books -- $750k*
Belesky's NHL salary amount comes off the books -- $850k*
The three contracts above with * are a combined $6.25M, which is just over what the Shattenkirk contract will cost us next year

Keep McKegg, Let the rest of these guys ride out their ELCs (Andersson, Chytil, Howden).

No idea what to do with that 2 LW spot with Kreider gone though -- need to get creative with trades. At this point I would understand trading Skjei... Though he's a good piece, he's probably worth more on paper than he is on the ice, I'd move him to solidify a middle 6 winger

Staal, not wishing injury, but for the sake of the cap next year, you just have to hope those ankles can't handle it, and he goes on LTIR/retires... Ideally, if he goes, that effectively covers almost ALL of the Shattenkirk dead cap hit

 

[Fitzy]

Don't think it matters. If you look at the players with 40+ 5v5 points since last year and at least 500 faceoffs taken (44 players) there is literally 0 correlation between FO% and points scored, FO% and CF%, and FO% and GF%.

I'm all for quant analysis, but this ' faceoffs don't matter' take from the corsi crowd goes a bit too far against accumulated common knowledge in my mind.

 

[Leetch3]

faceoffs don't matter until they do...the stats are skewed cause most faceoffs aren't important. but there are also faceoffs that are very important...the overall winning % isn't as important as the ability to bear down and win those key draws.

 

[Ola]

They really seem to be close to worst-case scenarios

But it does seem like a quite long time ago that he started to skate, closer to three weeks than two weeks.

I recon these things can take 4 weeks or 8 weeks, it’s hard to know, but after you start skating it shouldn’t take 3 weeks to get back.

 

[NYR Viper]

But it does seem like a quite long time ago that he started to skate, closer to three weeks than two weeks.

I recon these things can take 4 weeks or 8 weeks, it’s hard to know, but after you start skating it shouldn’t take 3 weeks to get back.

Eh, I’ve had a couple of severe ankle sprains in my life and I could definitely see why it would take longer. We all take for granted the movements and strength required to do everyday activities apart from hockey. In a boot it can be worse. Specifically high ankle sprains which if not healed properly, can linger and cause easier injury to that same ankle in the future. I’m sure he’s doing a lot of PT and strength training at this point. I’m guessing the team isn’t rushing him back on purpose

 

[Cag29]

I would agree. Trash is extremely hyperbolic.



If you think Kreider has been "trash" then I don't know what to tell you. His 9 points in 16 games is right at where he has produced his entire career and this invisibility show we are seeing from him... also in line with what we have seen from Kreider. Dominate for 10 games, disappear for 10 games.

And that’s exactly why I would not pay Kreider 7x7. A guy like Lemieux May come close to his production 40-45 points at half the price. Or less. Great analysis

 

[TheTakedown]

Eh, I’ve had a couple of severe ankle sprains in my life and I could definitely see why it would take longer. We all take for granted the movements and strength required to do everyday activities apart from hockey. In a boot it can be worse. Specifically high ankle sprains which if not healed properly, can linger and cause easier injury to that same ankle in the future. I’m sure he’s doing a lot of PT and strength training at this point. I’m guessing the team isn’t rushing him back on purpose

Yup, just as bad as shoulder injuries. Super easy to re-injure if there is an issue with the healing process. If he's been skating, that's good progress. Ankle sprains are a bitch

 

[Ola]

faceoffs don't matter until they do...the stats are skewed cause most faceoffs aren't important. but there are also faceoffs that are very important...the overall winning % isn't as important as the ability to bear down and win those key draws.

I don’t think many have been looking at these things from an unbiased perspective. If you can make an argument that nothing matters but how good a player is, the more solid the argument for CF% becomes.

I would like to see an analysis that really considers these things:
1. FOs is to a large extent a coin flip.
2. Almost everyone are in the interval 45-55%.
3. There is a big difference between a clean win and a teammate barely managing to touch the puck first.
4. Scoring in hockey is in itself a tremendously slow percentage play.

A relevant question to see an answer to would IMO be if there is any relationship between the out come of a game and a team decisively winning/loosing in the circle.

Like most teams have one guy they can send out to take the important FOs. But it’s worse if all 4 guys are getting crushed.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

And that’s exactly why I would not pay Kreider 7x7. A guy like Lemieux May come close to his production 40-45 points at half the price. Or less. Great analysis

If you're gauging his worth on points alone, you're doing it wrong. You don't always see a players effectiveness watching the game on TV because the camera only follows the guy with the puck. There's a reason Chytil has been glued to him. There's a reason they tried him and Kakko together to start the year. He makes other guys on his line better even when he doesn't have the puck. I'm not saying I give him 7x7 but I do try and get him to sign a 5 year deal at 6, 6.5.

 

[Ola]

Eh, I’ve had a couple of severe ankle sprains in my life and I could definitely see why it would take longer. We all take for granted the movements and strength required to do everyday activities apart from hockey. In a boot it can be worse. Specifically high ankle sprains which if not healed properly, can linger and cause easier injury to that same ankle in the future. I’m sure he’s doing a lot of PT and strength training at this point. I’m guessing the team isn’t rushing him back on purpose

OK, I am not that familiar with them.

Just saying, if you can skate on a healed ankle sprain, it would seem odd that it would take 3 weeks to get back — after — you could start to skate on it. But could be that it’s normal, I don’t know.