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Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XV: Trading up or down? - Mod Warning post #450

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NYR Viper said:
The smart move for this team is to continue compiling future assets this off-season and next season while trying to clear as much cap as possible between now and then. At that point they can go after a big fish or two they like while having the young players to augment them over the next 3-5 years.
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Totally agree - however the opposing argument, can and will the Rangers ever sign an absolute beast in UFA that is not past their prime? That is the real question... It is almost like we cannot ever get a chance to pick up a young, perennial asset in UFA, ever. Those types of situations tend to lead to trades where we must give to receive - but the Rangers are not in that position at the moment. In fact, it may take a few years...
 
Ryan over Lucic. Lucic is breaking down. Ryan keeps getting bad luck hand injuries. Karlsson's injuries are always bad luck, flukes, and not a sign of the future. Use that logic on Ryan. One good, injury free year and he can be flipped. You own lucic until that contract runs its course.
 
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ericmgomes said:
Totally agree - however the opposing argument, can and will the Rangers ever sign an absolute beast in UFA that is not past their prime? That is the real question... It is almost like we cannot ever get a chance to pick up a young, perennial asset in UFA, ever. Those types of situations tend to lead to trades where we must give to receive - but the Rangers are not in that position at the moment. In fact, it may take a few years...
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I agree with no long term contracts to players at 30 when they are UFA's but there are some guys coming to UFA who are 27-28 in the near future. 6-7 years for those guys, depending on the player, is something I would consider.
 
NYR Viper said:
I agree with no long term contracts to players at 30 when they are UFA's but there are some guys coming to UFA who are 27-28 in the near future. 6-7 years for those guys, depending on the player, is something I would consider.
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I am more infatuated with the 2019 UFA class. Aside from Tavares, not really big on opening up the wallet for anyone else. Unless it's a one year stop gap to shelter and develop the kids to the best of our abilities.
 
We'd only ever accept either Lucic or Ryan if we were bribed, so it's all about the elements of the bribe. Can't make this call in a vacuum, because we wouldn't take either just to take them; in order to evaluate the choice, we need to know what EDM/OTT is retaining, and what other picks/prospects might be included.
 
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Brooklyn Rangers Fan said:
We'd only ever accept either Lucic or Ryan if we were bribed, so it's all about the elements of the bribe. Can't make this call in a vacuum, because we wouldn't take either just to take them; in order to evaluate the choice, we need to know what EDM/OTT is retaining, and what other picks/prospects might be included.
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This is fair, and all I can do is make up what I think the deals would look likt, but here goes:

To EDM:
Smith

To NYR:
Lucic @ $5m cap hit + EDM 2nd '18 + EDM 2nd '19


To OTT:
Smith

To NYR:
Ryan @$6.25m cap hit + Pageau


I find it difficult to even determine what Ottawa would give (besides Karlsson) in order to have a team take Ryan.

For me, I'd prefer Lucic @ $5m cap hit (assuming Staal or Smith went the other way). I think Ryan is going to be perennially hurt and provide next to nothing while Lucic, at the very least, would be a valuable 3rd line winger as he ages (I think he will be top-6 for the next 2-3 years once he bounces back this season)
 
NYR Viper said:
This is fair, and all I can do is make up what I think the deals would look likt, but here goes:

To EDM:
Smith

To NYR:
Lucic @ $5m cap hit + EDM 2nd '18 + EDM 2nd '19


To OTT:
Smith

To NYR:
Ryan @$6.25m cap hit + Pageau


I find it difficult to even determine what Ottawa would give (besides Karlsson) in order to have a team take Ryan.

For me, I'd prefer Lucic @ $5m cap hit (assuming Staal or Smith went the other way). I think Ryan is going to be perennially hurt and provide next to nothing while Lucic, at the very least, would be a valuable 3rd line winger as he ages (I think he will be top-6 for the next 2-3 years once he bounces back this season)
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I know you want us to pick between them, but I'm sorry, in either case, I don't think those deals are good enough to get me to take the player. Even if you assume Smith is toast, I don't think the value is nearly high enough – and that's before you factor in the fact that I'm not willing to concede Smith is toast.

IMO, it'd be foolish to make any decisions about Smith until we see what he looks like in camp.
 
Brooklyn Rangers Fan said:
I know you want us to pick between them, but I'm sorry, in either case, I don't think those deals are good enough to get me to take the player. Even if you assume Smith is toast, I don't think the value is nearly high enough – and that's before you factor in the fact that I'm not willing to concede Smith is toast.

IMO, it'd be foolish to make any decisions about Smith until we see what he looks like in camp.
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Because there is nothing else occurring....

What would it take for you to take either player?
 
NYR Viper said:
This is fair, and all I can do is make up what I think the deals would look likt, but here goes:

To EDM:
Smith

To NYR:
Lucic @ $5m cap hit + EDM 2nd '18 + EDM 2nd '19


To OTT:
Smith

To NYR:
Ryan @$6.25m cap hit + Pageau


I find it difficult to even determine what Ottawa would give (besides Karlsson) in order to have a team take Ryan.

For me, I'd prefer Lucic @ $5m cap hit (assuming Staal or Smith went the other way). I think Ryan is going to be perennially hurt and provide next to nothing while Lucic, at the very least, would be a valuable 3rd line winger as he ages (I think he will be top-6 for the next 2-3 years once he bounces back this season)
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Personally, I don't think that's enough to make the deal work for Lucic. Nice to get Smith off the books, however the 2nd i don't think is enough to trigger that deal to happen. Rangers have a plethora pf picks already. If anything, i would think they might offer Smith and one of the 2nds to a team for a roster player.
 
ManUtdTobbe said:
I disagree, it's the smart move… While it's just under 50% to get a better pick the value difference between #1-4 is much bigger then it is between #4-7. They will be a horrible team, being a horrible team without a 1st rounder is worse… Having a shot at starting a rebuild with a franchise C is also something to consider, Jack Hughes is a franchise C.

IMO it's a fireable offence to keep #4 this year, it would be a terrible move.
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I disagree. If they happened to be even an inkling better next year then that pick turns to a #6-7 easily.

They traded that pick assuming it would be in the 20s range since they had playoff expectations. That backfired. They should just keep it and move on
 
Lucic + #10

For

For Staal/Smith + #26

I would do this if we are taking on Lucic’s contract. Otherwise I don’t want it.
 
I don't want to take on any bad contracts that extend past the next two years, and neither should the Rangers. Cap space is a very valuable asset.

Marc Staal is set to make only 1.2 million in base salary in 2020 after his signing bonus. That makes him VERY tradeable to a cap floor team. In two years, Staal either retires or is traded.
 
Fitzy Duke of NY said:
I don't want to take on any bad contracts that extend past the next two years, and neither should the Rangers. Cap space is a very valuable asset.

Marc Staal is set to make only 1.2 million in base salary in 2020 after his signing bonus. That makes him VERY tradeable to a cap floor team. In two years, Staal either retires or is traded.
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The team doesn't need to do anything with Staal until they're ready to compete, which isn't going to be this season. And honestly, he had a bit of a bounce back season and took on a more vocal leadership role than I remember. He can eat 2nd or 3rd pair minutes and provide leadership in what is likely to be a lost season. If we're able to court Karlsson, Doughty, Seguin, or Panarin next offseason and need the cap space, then you revisit trying to get rid of him by trade or buyout.
 
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Fitzy Duke of NY said:
I don't want to take on any bad contracts that extend past the next two years, and neither should the Rangers. Cap space is a very valuable asset.

Marc Staal is set to make only 1.2 million in base salary in 2020 after his signing bonus. That makes him VERY tradeable to a cap floor team. In two years, Staal either retires or is traded.
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Cap Friendly and Spotrac have different contract details on this deal. Nobody knows which is the real one

Marc Staal - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Marc Staal
 
ManUtdTobbe said:
Sens will be a bottom 3 team next year if they trade EK65 (which they should)… 2019 draft is center deavy, and it's deep at the top, both things that is very good for an early rebuild. Their most likely picks at 4 from the reports are Tkachuk, Dobson or Zadina… I Think you can get a player that's better (or atleast fits the rebuild better as in a C) in the top 7-8 next year, so don't put the cutoff at 4.

It would be crazy to go into a season with a horrific team that you plan to keep just over the cap floor and a horrible goalie tandem (both signed) without having your own 1st round pick, especially when the top prospect is a franchise C.
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I would take the sure asset now instead of rolling the dice on next year.

agree to disagree
 
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I feel like everyone is looking at the obvious bad contracts to take back, but I think there are much more realistic and potential targets in guys like Zack Smith, Tyler Ennis, and maybe a dman like Paul Martin.

It doesn’t have to be a wild trade, but it can be an easy way to add assets just by eating cap space. SJS just unloaded salary in that Hoffman deal, so maybe we can nab one of those Florida picks as extra capital for taking Martin. That’d clear up some bank for them to throw the money truck at JT91
 
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Mac n Gs said:
I feel like everyone is looking at the obvious bad contracts to take back, but I think there are much more realistic and potential targets in guys like Zack Smith, Tyler Ennis, and maybe a dman like Paul Martin.

It doesn’t have to be a wild trade, but it can be an easy way to add assets just by eating cap space. SJS just unloaded salary in that Hoffman deal, so maybe we can nab one of those Florida picks as extra capital for taking Martin. That’d clear up some bank for them to throw the money truck at JT91
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Good point. There may be better/simpler/easier deals to make along these lines.
 
EK would fit great as a Ranger. I know Ott is horrendously mismanaged, but that deal is a steal.

Teams would be willing to give up 6-7 pieces for EK extended.

But then again there are some really effed up things in OTT.

The Hoffman deal yesterday... They took a $4M bad contract and downgrade in a player (and I like Bergman)... And in the same day. The very same day, SJ cleared $5M and got a better deal for Hoffman.

I've never seen anything so Topsy Turvy like that.
 
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DutchShamrock said:
Ryan over Lucic. Lucic is breaking down. Ryan keeps getting bad luck hand injuries. Karlsson's injuries are always bad luck, flukes, and not a sign of the future. Use that logic on Ryan. One good, injury free year and he can be flipped. You own lucic until that contract runs its course.
Click to expand...

If by breaking down you mean missing less games in the last 8 seasons than Ryan missed last year alone, then yes. Lucic is CLEARLY breaking down.
 
Mac n Gs said:
I feel like everyone is looking at the obvious bad contracts to take back, but I think there are much more realistic and potential targets in guys like Zack Smith, Tyler Ennis, and maybe a dman like Paul Martin.

It doesn’t have to be a wild trade, but it can be an easy way to add assets just by eating cap space. SJS just unloaded salary in that Hoffman deal, so maybe we can nab one of those Florida picks as extra capital for taking Martin. That’d clear up some bank for them to throw the money truck at JT91
Click to expand...


The shorter contracts would be ideal. A list of some of the guys who have been discussed:

Paul Martin - 1 year @ $4.85
Brooks Orpik - 1 years @ $5.5m
Carl Hagelin - 1 year @ $4m
Tyler Ennis - 1 year @ $4.6
Matt Martin - 2 years @ $2.5m
Matt Moulson - 1 year @ $5m
Kyle Clifford - 1 year @ $1.6m
Marian Hossa'a contract - 3 years $ $5.275m - LTIR
Ryan Callahan - 2 years @ $5.8m
Adam McQuaid - 1 year @ $2.75m
Zack Smith - 3 years @ $3.25m
Alex Burrows - 1 year @ $2.5m
Jason Spezza - 1 year @ $7.5m
Steve Mason - 1 year @ $4.1m


New names:
Nick Bonino - 3 years @ $4.1m
Troy Brouwer - 2 years @ $4.5m
Andrew Shaw - 4 years @ $3.9m
Marian Gabroik - 3 years @ $4.875m
Jori Lehtera - 1 year @ $4.7m
Johan Fransen - 2 years @ $3.954m - LTIR
Nicklas Kronwall - 1 year @ $4.75m
Jonathan Ericsson - 2 years @ $4.25m
Martin Hanzal - 2 years @ $4.75m
Nathan Beaulieu - 1 year @ $2.5m
Derek Dorsett - 1 year @ $2.65m
Scott Darling - 3 years @ $4.15m
Jay Bouwmeester - 1 year @ $5.4m
Matt Hunwick - 2 years @ $2.25m
Jamie McGinn - 1 year @ $3.33m



Editing to add a couple in bold
 
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pld459666 said:
If by breaking down you mean missing less games in the last 8 seasons than Ryan missed last year alone, then yes. Lucic is CLEARLY breaking down.
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Breaking down isn't just a function of missed games. He's slowing down and physically struggling to keep up. Ryan is getting slashed in his hands. Granted, Ryan is losing a step too. My bold prediction is he can contribute more than lucic and he can play a full season if his hands get stronger.

But yeah, sarcastic replies to posts on hypothetical questions, where the poster solicited responses is pretty justified.
 
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