Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XV (Light em up!)

[Machinehead]

I’d trade him for past considerations.

Not even joking.

I would 100% trade Lindgren to Chicago for Chicago to say "you guys probably beat us in 2014."

 

[MrAlmost]

Am I the only one not blown away by Borgen? Am I in the twilight zone where 30 year old trouba is hated but 28 year old trouba but paid less is the defensive centerpiece we needed?

Not a huge fan of Vaak either and definitely don't want to watch Lindgren anymore.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Sam Carrick at $1M could help many teams. So many of the Cup contenders are strapped for space. The Rangers are probably better off keeping him at that number. He is signed for two more seasons.

Ryan Lindgren? There are most likely more teams interested in Will Borgen. Dallas. Edmonton. Righty D are harder to find. What is Lindgren's market? Colorado? Winnipeg?

How bad is Jake McCabe’s injury? Chief would love Lindgren, and he wouldn’t have to be their main LD with them having Rielly, OEL, and Benoit

 

[Kocur Dill]

Size differences are overstated in general. A big man has 20 pounds on a small player. This isn't boxing -- that's not that big of a deal.

I belive the theory is longer wing span, longer reach, wider stance, longer stick. Bigger body to see net space through.

If the skating and smarts are there, all the above is the advantage morseo than weight. Taking up real-estate. Making the zone smaller.

 

[Siddi]

Correct. Naturally, Brooks' assured tone only strengthens my conviction.

Im with Fiddy on this.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Am I the only one not blown away by Borgen? Am I in the twilight zone where 30 year old trouba is hated but 28 year old trouba but paid less is the defensive centerpiece we needed?

Not a huge fan of Vaak either and definitely don't want to watch Lindgren anymore.

If you accept them both as the 3rd pair players they are at reasonable cap hits, then they become worth their salt.

Now we only need to consentrate on 1 stud top 4 guy and have the money to do so, instead of revamping 3 or 4 spots.

The only question becomes, what do you do with Mancini?

 

[JimmyG89]

Lindgren probably gets a third at best. Maybe Smith and Lindgren @50 each could get us like, a 2 and 4.

Lindgren will have more value league wide. Look at the potential trade candidates, he is possibly the best perceived LHD rental and I think you can get a 1st for him. I'd guess maybe 2nd to Provorov, but that team is close to a playoff spot and I have a hard time seeing them selling off with an already young team that needs to get into the postseason for development. I guess they could sell him.

Same for Pettersson in Pittsburgh. Are they going to move a youngish LHD that they can pay after this season for more picks? Crosby probably wants one more shot at a postseason there.

Regardless of handedness, there is a shortage of defenseman that teams want to add come the postseason. Lindgren has 40 games of experience in the postseason, teams will value that.

When I say I think they could get a 1st for him at the deadline, I'm thinking along the lines of Lindgren + 4th for a 1st.

 

[Machinehead]

I belive the theory is longer wing span, longer reach, wider stance, longer stick. Bigger body to see net space through.

If the skating and smarts are there, thats the advantage morseo than weight.

We're talking like, a couple of inches in most cases. This is not a league where you regularly see guys giving up 7, 8 inches in a matchup.

The optimal size to be able to skate isn't that big of a window.

Bowen Byram, who has been described in this thread as "smallish," is two inches shorter than Braden Schneider who is often described as above average in size.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I’m curious what’s happening with Chytil. He keeps reiterating what is going on with him isn’t related to concussions. So what’s the deal?

 

[Siddi]

Bills players & Fans.

Point stands.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

I think there are a couple of things to consider with Borgen. First is how he has meshed with Miller (small sample size but they compliment each other nicely) and if that continues. Next is what type of contract is he looking for? 2 years around $3M AAV and no trade protections would be good. Anything more than that term and/or AAV would be pushing it. Lastly is what gets offered in a trade for him as we approach the TDL. If he continues to play well and a team offers a 1st (not saying it will happen, just a hypothetical), I don't think the Rangers can turn that down.

 

[GAGLine]

Bills players & Fans.

They've made the playoffs in 7 of the last 8 years, but I don't think I'd call them happy when looking at their full history. They need to win a championship.

 

[duhmetreE]

If Drury makes the right decision and sells we should be able to pick up quite a few 2nd rounders at the trade deadline. Smith, Borgen, and Lindgren would bring back a 2nd I think.

At this point only way I move Borgen is if he didn’t want to resign

I think there are a couple of things to consider with Borgen. First is how he has meshed with Miller (small sample size but they compliment each other nicely) and if that continues. Next is what type of contract is he looking for? 2 years around $3M AAV and no trade protections would be good. Anything more than that term and/or AAV would be pushing it. Lastly is what gets offered in a trade for him as we approach the TDL. If he continues to play well and a team offers a 1st (not saying it will happen, just a hypothetical), I don't think the Rangers can turn that down.

Exactly what Mikkola got. 3 years at 3% cap. Might have to be a little more because of state tax

So 3 years at $2.75-3M

 

[duhmetreE]

Sam Carrick at $1M could help many teams. So many of the Cup contenders are strapped for space. The Rangers are probably better off keeping him at that number. He is signed for two more seasons.

Ryan Lindgren? There are most likely more teams interested in Will Borgen. Dallas. Edmonton. Righty D are harder to find. What is Lindgren's market? Colorado? Winnipeg?

Maybe LAK

I belive the theory is longer wing span, longer reach, wider stance, longer stick. Bigger body to see net space through.

If the skating and smarts are there, all the above is the advantage morseo than weight. Taking up real-estate. Making the zone smaller.

Board battles too. It doesn’t mean it’s the only way but it helps

 

[NYR Viper]

Sam Carrick at $1M could help many teams. So many of the Cup contenders are strapped for space. The Rangers are probably better off keeping him at that number. He is signed for two more seasons.

Ryan Lindgren? There are most likely more teams interested in Will Borgen. Dallas. Edmonton. Righty D are harder to find. What is Lindgren's market? Colorado? Winnipeg?

I think the market for Lindgren will be more robust than we are giving him credit for. That same UFA class that we are all considering sub-par are the guys who MAY be available. Provorov is likely moving. Beyond that it's guys with term who many teams may shy away from. Borgen and Lindgren are probably towards the top of teams lists for defensive help and as much as we all shit on Lindgren, he could be an effective bottom pairing, physical d-man who also PK's for some playoff team. I think you're looking for a 2nd (which will be a late pick) + 4th or something like that.

 

[kovazub94]

This team desperately needs a LHD that can pass and transport the puck up the ice. It's a major hole in their game. Miller is good at skating the puck up the ice, not so much at passing.

Is Byram really smallish? Average NHL defenseman is 6'2 200. Byram is 6'1 190.

Vaak - 6'2 205
Miller - 6'5 209
Schneider 6'4 214
Borgen - 6'3 205

Fox and Lindgren are the two that are below height and weight averages. If you remove Lindgren for Byram, you actually get a similar sized player. You're also not playing him with Fox most likely (I'd think Schneider would be his ideal partner).

So they've already beefed up and got faster with the likes of Trouba and Jones not in the lineup.

Of the get-go your premise is incorrect. Even if the Rangers (or any team for this matter) could use D who excel in passing, our #1 requirement is LD partner for Fox who can defend. As we saw in the last playoff run for the number of minutes the 1st pair must be on ice and take physical punishment from the opposition, two undersized D will likely eventually get caved in. So while it is great that the Rangers have size on its lower pairs, it does not help Fox. Personally I'd kept 2022-2023 version of Lindgren but not the current version (it's amazing that not even yet 27 y/o could regress so much in about 2 years time - I'd thought he'd easily give us that form for at least four years through his 28-29 birthday - I was wrong)

 

[FIRE DRURY]

They've made the playoffs in 7 of the last 8 years, but I don't think I'd call them happy when looking at their full history. They need to win a championship.

I was 10 when they lost in 90. Wide right. 11 when the Redskins beat us. 12+13 back to back against Dallas. I remember crying after that second Dallas game. The saving grace in 94 was a few months after losing the SB, I got to see the Rangers win as Cup. As big a Rangers fan I am, I'll take 1 Bills SB win over 5 Rangers cups.

 

[NYR Viper]

At this point only way I move Borgen is if he didn’t want to resign


Exactly what Mikkola got. 3 years at 3% cap. Might have to be a little more because of state tax

So 3 years at $2.75-3M

I'd go 4 years to keep the cap hit at or around $3m. Borgen has a better track record of scoring than Mikkola did though.

Year prior to UFA season for Mikkola was 13 points in 54 games
Year of UFA for Mikkola was 6 points in 81 games

Year prior to UFA for Borgen was 25 points in 82 games
Year of UFA for Borgen is 4 points in 44 games so far

They are eerily similar, although Borgen will hit UFA a year older and his track record of scoring goes a bit deeper than Mikkola did. That and the cap will be increasing when he hits UFA whereas Mikkola hit UFA the year of a stagnant cap.

I am still guessing $3.5m x 4-5 years.

And I'm game for that

 

[bernmeister]

This team desperately needs a LHD that can pass and transport the puck up the ice. It's a major hole in their game. Miller is good at skating the puck up the ice, not so much at passing.

Is Byram really smallish? Average NHL defenseman is 6'2 200. Byram is 6'1 190.

Vaak - 6'2 205
Miller - 6'5 209
Schneider 6'4 214
Borgen - 6'3 205

Fox and Lindgren are the two that are below height and weight averages. If you remove Lindgren for Byram, you actually get a similar sized player. You're also not playing him with Fox most likely (I'd think Schneider would be his ideal partner).

So they've already beefed up and got faster with the likes of Trouba and Jones not in the lineup.

Byram is a non starter b'c, sq 1, prior concussion history is too risky
If we got him for nothing and could do a yr at a time, ok, but that's not happening

He’d have to lose 3 steps to be as slow as those two.

At least
this comes to mind...

Am I the only one not blown away by Borgen? Am I in the twilight zone where 30 year old trouba is hated but 28 year old trouba but paid less is the defensive centerpiece we needed?

Not a huge fan of Vaak either and definitely don't want to watch Lindgren anymore.

Borgen has been good +, not great, but problem is he is not worth him + what else we got for KK

 

[UnparalledPark]

Was thinking more like 5 shifts.

I’m guessing 2 periods.

 

[UnparalledPark]

I'd go 4 years to keep the cap hit at or around $3m. Borgen has a better track record of scoring than Mikkola did though.

Year prior to UFA season for Mikkola was 13 points in 54 games
Year of UFA for Mikkola was 6 points in 81 games

Year prior to UFA for Borgen was 25 points in 82 games
Year of UFA for Borgen is 4 points in 44 games so far

They are eerily similar, although Borgen will hit UFA a year older and his track record of scoring goes a bit deeper than Mikkola did. That and the cap will be increasing when he hits UFA whereas Mikkola hit UFA the year of a stagnant cap.

I am still guessing $3.5m x 4-5 years.

And I'm game for that

I agree with your guesstimate.

 

[RangerBoy]

I think the market for Lindgren will be more robust than we are giving him credit for. That same UFA class that we are all considering sub-par are the guys who MAY be available. Provorov is likely moving. Beyond that it's guys with term who many teams may shy away from. Borgen and Lindgren are probably towards the top of teams lists for defensive help and as much as we all shit on Lindgren, he could be an effective bottom pairing, physical d-man who also PK's for some playoff team. I think you're looking for a 2nd (which will be a late pick) + 4th or something like that.

Columbus hasn't made the playoffs since 2019. Does Columbus keep Provorov as a self rental? Maybe sign him. Columbus is currently 8th. Dean Evason has them playing good hockey. How important is another draft pick or two to them? They already have so many young players on their team/system. Columbus already has an extra first round pick from Minnesota for Jiricek. The deadline is March 7. If Columbus remains in a playoff spot on March 7, do they sell? Making the playoffs would be a big deal in that market.

 

[effen]

I think it's still pretty irrelevant to discuss what a guy like Borgen, Smith or Lindgren could fetch on the deadline. 95% sure that Drury isn't selling.

Barring a huge run, I'm 95% sure they are selling.

:O

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I was 10 when they lost in 90. Wide right. 11 when the Redskins beat us. 12+13 back to back against Dallas. I remember crying after that second Dallas game. The saving grace in 94 was a few months after losing the SB, I got to see the Rangers win as Cup. As big a Rangers fan I am, I'll take 1 Bills SB win over 5 Rangers cups.

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[kovazub94]

You’re gonna be looking for a Will Borgen every year for years when you already have one. Trading him for what equates La to a late second is stupid. Sign him Schneider plays well on the left too if we want to experiment with that again.

But guys like Borgen don’t grow on trees

Seems that we've been looking for Borgen since K Klein days. Losing 2nd round return that has 10% chance of becoming an NHLer in 5-6 years is pretty easy return to pass on. No brainer if the contract price is right.