Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XV (Light em up!)

[Alluckks]

True, but not in the eyes of many HF people. Yet, they should be. I guess that’s my point though. He is not a franchise player that you absolutely do not trade. It’s almost like the Fox situation. If he had blazing speed or he was as 6’2 he may be THE savior we’ve been waiting for. The unfortunate fact that our best prospect - still one of the league’s best as well - happens to not be an elite skater or a bigger more physical type is just our luck. On a team stacked with guys who have a lot of size and grit he becomes an ideal skilled catalyst. On a team whose problem is skating and not being willing to battle physically, he becomes Panarin lite with no fast or physical players creating any space or chaos for him to take advantage of.

The players that we would trade him for are not available, and seldom ever are. So it is moot

 

[Filip Chytil]

Drury isn’t winning that trade

Drury would get obliterated in a EP trade. No doubt in my mind.

Sadly he is the best center we’ve had in decades .

But he wasn’t established as a 1C when we traded for him, unlike EP

Was Mika at his best even a top 10 C in the league?

 

[Levitate]

who are all these wingers that the rangers are stocked on and don't need a player like perreault

 

[Filip Chytil]

If you can replace Zibanejad with Miller, sure by all means. Otherwise, I don't see the point of adding another 32 yo on a long-term contract.

Drury trying to save the season. Now this will be just hilarious to watch. Assuming Biz is accurate here (big if)

 

[duhmetreE]

lets just start saving for McDavid, Eichel, Kaprizov or Necas.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Drury would get obliterated in a EP trade. No doubt in my mind.



Was Mika at his best even a top 10 C in the league?

can we not retcon how good mika was, he’s had a nightmare, horribad season but at his peak he was a f***ing monster. does your memory not extend past 2 years?

from 2018-2023 he was our easily best center since messier part 1

 

[Filip Chytil]

I know that Chris Drury is a doofus because he’s hellbent on trading malcontents currently on the team, and wants to fix it by bringing in a serial malcontent from another team

He hasn't shown he's effective at roster construction yet. Expect some ridiculous trade by the TDL.

 

[JohnC]

I really don't understand the stance of " I don't want JT Miller because he's a locker room cancer." He's a dog, a gamer, a drag you into the fight, F you-type personality that our locker room desperately needs more of. I consider the makeup of our current locker room core, primarily Mika and Kreider, as cancerous. These are two entitled, coddled, fold-when-adversity-hits, losers who are chiefly responsible for this disaster of a season so far. Feed me JT Miller.

He’s apparently been involved with two very public disputes with two separate teammates and has led Vancouver to accomplish f*** all in the process.

 

[zlev]

The players that we would trade him for are not available, and seldom ever are. So it is moot

there's maybe...7 or 8 players I would trade Perreault for? and one of them is rumored to be available (Pettersson)

 

[Filip Chytil]

can we not retcon how good mika was, he’s had a nightmare, horribad season but at his peak he was a f***ing monster. does your memory not extend past 2 years?

Actually doesn't. Wasn't around at the time of the COVID shortened year. Which is why I asked what others thought.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

there's maybe...7 or 8 players I would trade Perreault for? and one of them is rumored to be available (Pettersson)

i wouldnt trade gabe for EP. trading a guy who’s supposed to be an elite prospect (and therefore has the potential to be both cheap and incredibly productive) for a guy who’s about to start a massive contract is shitty asset management

like, even if EP averages 90 points the next 3 seasons, would you take that at 11,5M and then have another 5 years, or would you take, hypothetically (assuming GP pans out) a 45 point, 60 point, then 80 point season on an ELC? then have control over what kind of contract he signs.

 

[LokiDog]

I do not see Gabe over rated. I just don't think he's what this team needs at the moment. Hopefully we look much different once he puts on the Rangers sweater.

He'd be on an ELC, so I really do not care. Is he replacing Panarin? Is he going to be more Kucherov or Panarin in big games? That's the main difference.

btw, if a deal comes up for a long term '1C' or top pairing defenseman, I have no problem with using him as a trade piece

I suppose this is a good way of putting it.

If you are someone like @GoAwayPanarin or @bhamill you may have a good, accurate view of Perrault’s upside. I have seen some fans saying things like they wouldn’t move Perreault for Pettersson 1 for 1 (not discussing cap either, just straight value) because Perrault’s already looking like he’ll be better. Like, come on.

That said, if you’re not part of the seeming minority that has begun to overhype him, my answer to you is closer to what @duhmetreE is saying here - great young player, but also it’s very unfortunate that our best prospect does not align with our biggest needs. That’s not to say that what he does isn’t still valuable or that he won’t be good. But he also isn’t what we need and I would definitely move him in a deal for a 1C or 2D under 26.

 

[Filip Chytil]

30 year old Mark Messier would do nothing for this team, much less JT f***ing Miller

I'm all for mailing in this season, selling off a half dozen plus guys for picks and prospects, and getting a top 5 pick. But I don't think Drury feels the same. At least that's what I think if Biz is accurate there on his report. Big if.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Actually doesn't. Wasn't around at the time of the COVID shortened year. Which is why I asked what others thought.

we’re talking about a span of 5 years not one specific season

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Fair enough but on which part? How would you project a comparable (in their prime, not their current state - wasn’t talking about 2024 Skinner)? He isn’t big nor physical. He isn’t fast. He may not be slow, but he is not a world beater at all and this team needs large helpings of speed. His offensive instincts are tremendous, sure, and we need that too. But size and speed often both become great equalizers at the NHL level for guys who dominated against younger competition. We can debate whether he’s been the line driver or not and whether he has benefited from his line mate situation or they have benefited from him, and I’m happy to be flexible. But if this team had developed Hughes and Stutzle instead of Laf and Kakko, I genuinely do not believe people would be as high on Perreault. And even then, I acknowledged he is a great prospect. He is simply a type that we need less than a 6’1 center or a fast, tenacious top six winger.

To say that he's got questionable compete or that it's not a part of his game is off base, it's not even close to true.

Hockey sense is the great equalizer, not size and speed. I've seen big guys fail, I've seen fast guys fail, I've seen big and fast guys fail (hello Julien Gauthier!) I haven't really seen smart guys fail. He's got that in spades, perhaps more so than any prospect on the planet. I don't think it really matters what they did with Laf and Kakko, they could have been mega stars and everyone would still be f***ing excited as balls for Perreault who not only is the NTDP single season all time leader in scoring (yes, context is necessary here, he played with other high end guys) but he's also scored more in the last 1+seasons of college hockey than...

Every other player who has played college hockey during that time span. At a certain point I think we just need to acknowledge that the guy is just f***ing good. I also don't think trying to paint the guy as Jeff Skinner is accurate on so many levels... One of which being that a prime Jeff Skinner was a terrific skater and if he moved like that he would have gone top 3-5 in his draft year. Their playing styles aren't even remotely similar and quite honestly, Skinner's been a pretty good player so even if that were the outcome, no one should be upset, thats a home run at 23 OA.

On the size - He doesn't shy away from the tough areas and has excelled there to this point in his career. I don't think it's unfair to question whether or not he can continue to do this at the NHL level, but I do think it's unfair to automatically assume that he won't.

on tenacity - how much have you watched him? He isn't going to break faces but he works really hard to get the puck back when he doesn't have it and he's really good at getting it back.

Also, they track things at the NCAA level and at the NTDP level, he's basically been as responsible for creating offense as anyone beyond just raw production. Smith was actually the one who was more of the mooch than the other 2 (and no one should be surprised that it's been a bit of a struggle for him at the NHL level, it was too big of a jump to ask him to make after 1 year of NCAA hockey and on that team) and I've been pretty open with how high I am on Leonard.

Again fair to be skeptical about how they're going to handle him, but that has nothing to do with his status as a prospect and what he's been able to do and shown up to this point.

 

[Filip Chytil]

I may be in the minority here, but as much as I would love to see Perreault in a Rangers uniform - If there is a player (not Miller) who could be had that is a cornerstone type of guy and a center (and younger) to build around I wouldn't have a problem moving him in the deal.

Watching him at BC and the WJC - he is the same type of non-contact, just OK skater who is very similar to the type of veterans we are having issues with in NY.

And his value is very high. It would be a risk for sure, but given the Rangers track record in developing young forwards - lets just dangle him out there for a proven elite player who fits the mold.

Not to mention im kinda sick of watching and waiting for young forwards to blossom in the franchise. Its excruciating. Fit a winner in here with the same age path of the current youth core.

I know it's tough to answer without knowing who's available out there, but what type of guys would you have in mind?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

i don’t see how GP doesn’t align with our biggest needs, i mean what else is there to need in hockey but electric talent like he has?

 

[duhmetreE]

is it me or does Sam Bennett feel like a Drury type guy? UFA signing?

if he can get him on a Trocheck type contract, I'm all for it. That's around $6.2M per with the projected cap

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

is it me or does Sam Bennett feel like a Drury type guy? UFA signing?

if he can get him on a Trocheck type contract, I'm all for it. That's around $6.2M per with the projected cap

signing bennett to an expensive contract after other teams utilized him on the cheap would be typical rangers

 

[Guyute]

There's too much smoke around this Pettersson/Miller drama right now for nothing to happen. It feels like we're past the point of no return just like it did with Trouba 5 weeks ago. Vancouver will trade one of those guys probably sooner than later in my opinion.

 

[duhmetreE]

we need more bulls

 

[duhmetreE]

i don’t see how GP doesn’t align with our biggest needs, i mean what else is there to need in hockey but electric talent like he has?

I don’t know if I’d call him electric.

He has great hands and elite vision/game sense.

 

[LokiDog]

To say that he's got questionable compete or that it's not a part of his game is off base, it's not even close to true.

Hockey sense is the great equalizer, not size and speed. I've seen big guys fail, I've seen fast guys fail, I've seen big and fast guys fail (hello Julien Gauthier!) I haven't really seen smart guys fail. He's got that in spades, perhaps more so than any prospect on the planet. I don't think it really matters what they did with Laf and Kakko, they could have been mega stars and everyone would still be f***ing excited as balls for Perreault who not only is the NTDP single season all time leader in scoring (yes, context is necessary here, he played with other high end guys) but he's also scored more in the last 1+seasons of college hockey than...

Every other player who has played college hockey during that time span. At a certain point I think we just need to acknowledge that the guy is just f***ing good. I also don't think trying to paint the guy as Jeff Skinner is accurate on so many levels... One of which being that a prime Jeff Skinner was a terrific skater and if he moved like that he would have gone top 3-5 in his draft year. Their playing styles aren't even remotely similar and quite honestly, Skinner's been a pretty good player so even if that were the outcome, no one should be upset, thats a home run at 23 OA.

On the size - He doesn't shy away from the tough areas and has excelled there to this point in his career. I don't think it's unfair to question whether or not he can continue to do this at the NHL level, but I do think it's unfair to automatically assume that he won't.

on tenacity - how much have you watched him? He isn't going to break faces but he works really hard to get the puck back when he doesn't have it and he's really good at getting it back.

Also, they track things at the NCAA level and at the NTDP level, he's basically been as responsible for creating offense as anyone beyond just raw production. Smith was actually the one who was more of the mooch than the other 2 (and no one should be surprised that it's been a bit of a struggle for him at the NHL level, it was too big of a jump to ask him to make after 1 year of NCAA hockey and on that team) and I've been pretty open with how high I am on Leonard.

Again fair to be skeptical about how they're going to handle him, but that has nothing to do with his status as a prospect and what he's been able to do and shown up to this point.

IQ is the equalizer for guys who feasted off of speed against smaller, slower players, absolutely. For guys who didn’t have top foot speed though, getting smothered by Heiskanen or Slavin or a 6’6 Power, etc. is the equalizer. Neither Laf nor Kakko will live up to top 5 pick status, mostly because of mediocre-to-bad skating.

Again, back tracking to my response to DuhmetreE above, my point was that it’s unfortunate he checks very few of the boxes for our largest needs. We’re slow, we’re soft, we’re weak on D and at center. He may not BE soft, but at 5’10 180 he doesn’t move the needle for improving our speed, softness, depth on D or eternal hole at C.

In order to truly be untouchable at his size on the wing he would need Marner, Kaprizov or Rantanen level upside and I do not see that. Pettersson just turned 26 and is having one disappointing season (still on pace for 70) while generally not only being over point per game, but getting annual Selke votes? If you wouldn’t trade a 5’10 wing prospect straight up for him, you must think that prospect has Kaprizov potential.

I’m also not at all obsessed with Pettersson, he’s just the most realistic young center being discussed, similar to how it was with Eichel a few years ago, so I’m using him as the example. Remember when some people said things like “I wouldn’t trade Kakko/Chytil for Jack and his broken neck straight up”? Yeah… same vibes. Pettersson isn’t my favorite young C out there, but I do think 40 games in which he’s still pacing for 70 points has people lumping him in with Zibanejad pretty unfairly. I would definitely be comfortable betting on him bouncing back as soon as he leaves Vancouver. He was rumored to want out even going back a couple of years ago, and I have heard rumblings of impropriety between another Canuck and Pettersson’s SO, which would probably make anyone a little cranky in the work place.

 

[LokiDog]

i don’t see how GP doesn’t align with our biggest needs, i mean what else is there to need in hockey but electric talent like he has?

Before Lafreniere came to the NHL he was even more “electric talent” than Gabe. That’s why he went 1OA. Then he got here and the electric skill wasn’t electric enough to set him apart and it turned out that non-giant wingers who don’t skate extremely well aren’t as game breaking as one would hope. I’m not sure how the fact that we need top 3 quality LHD and a bonafide top six center under 26 years old isn’t self evident as being significantly larger needs than a smallish winger with decent but not great skating.

 

[I Eat Crow]

There's too much smoke around this Pettersson/Miller drama right now for nothing to happen. It feels like we're past the point of no return just like it did with Trouba 5 weeks ago. Vancouver will trade one of those guys probably sooner than later in my opinion.

Or they pull a Flyers circa 2012 and trade them both.