Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XV (Light em up!)

[lakeshirts37]

don't f***ing trade trocheck.

I love him but it would probably be smart actually. The rest of his contract is ages 32-35. Could get a really nice return for him now and get out before his decline. He’s a complementary piece anyway and the Rangers don’t have the studs he should be complementing.

 

[kovazub94]

Anyone should be considered, even Fox, though I personally wouldn't trade him. The offer would have to be huge for me to trade Fox.

Guys on the other side of 30? Trade them all. It's not like we can get worse than what we're seeing right now.

I disagree with this approach (moving all vets). because it proved to be the direct path to forever rebuild. Of course if you get an outsized return you’d do it but in general there must be a proper mix of vets and youth.

 

[lakeshirts37]

The Kakko defenders need to hear Boyle talk about making it in the league. No one got yo-yo'd more as a Ranger and it did nothing but make him a better player that was coveted by contenders around the league. Kakko never bought into the team game.

Different generation of players. There are some exceptions but most are soft and expect everything right away.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

There's no evidence that "this won't be a long meandering rebuild" wasn't Gorton's plan, and his actions support that.

No owner is going to be happy with the prospect of bottoming out for a long time, and most meandering rebuilds not only don't work, but lead to long-term rot.

The issue is that we're using Dolan as an excuse to absolve Gorton and even the current regime because "something something impatience!" Our GM's have failed independent of the owner.

Gorton is just a moron. Montreal is currently going absolutely nowhere. Gorton's problem isn't ideology -- Gorton's problem is he can't f***ing draft.

Nobody said it was and nobody is arguing that the Knicks did that. They didn't sell Julius Randle until they were well into contention.

I'm taking issue with the notion that Dolan pulled the plug by firing Gorton and forcing the team into contention.

Gorton pulled the plug, Dolan fired him for being a moron, and PDO luck forced the team into contention.

What you suggest could be true, but it is far from definitive.

The way Drury 1) stepped into the job and 2) has operated since he got here (shortest of short term vision and decision making) I see as possible further evidence to support the position that Dolan is involved with setting a mandate. But the team has also performed well in the standings over that time, so admit this is not definitive and could just be Drury operating to win as best as he sees fit.

The proof to me will be what Drury does in the next 6 months or so. This is a team that IMO objectively needs to be blown up. So many pieces are missing. Does Drury look to the future or try to continuously patch holes? The latter would be pretty convincing evidence that there is a "do not bottom out" mandate or just some sort of softer "organizational culture" coming down from Dolan.

Igor extension and targeting Borgen certainly point towards patching to get back into the playoffs next year as a 7 seed vs truly rebuilding the org to compete for a Cup.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Hagens has pretty much cemeted first overall. Unless we win the lottery or trade for the 1st overall, we won't get him.

Trade for 1st overall ... hahahaha.

With what? We have two bags of pucks and maybe a pick in the top 10. We could offer Laf +++ and our 1st, whoever holds the 1st OA pick will just laugh in our faces.

I'm ready for another 10 years of no mans land, then another letter and maybe then, we'll finally tank for 5 years + and maybe end up with a proper core, to go to war with.

 

[lakeshirts37]

I disagree with this approach (moving vets). because it proved to be the direct path to forever rebuild. Of course if you get an outsized return you’d do it but in general there must be a proper mix of vets and youth.

you get new vets. might as well sell off assets with positive value until you build youth core - which is lacking

 

[LORDE]

Everyone should be available at this point... including Trocheck, especially if the return is fantastic.

I know we can't trade everyone (tho many would love that) but even the guys like Tro & Fox should be available.

That's where we are now.

 

[lakeshirts37]

I think it's far more absurd to assume Dolan was completely willing to do whatever the hockey people wanted even if what they wanted was a long, patient, ground up rebuild. You think Dolan wasn't putting pressure on NYR management to not fully bottom out, even since the original "letter"? I think thats pretty naive.

1/26/2018 just before "the letter"

Exclusive | Rangers going to blow it all up

There is no ambivalence within management. The Blueshirts, we’re told on good authority, view the Feb. 26 trade deadline as a unique opportunity to refresh the roster and replenish the organization…

nypost.com

The Rangers plan, because of course it was, was always to try to "contend while rebuilding". You don't think Dolan is influencing that? HF interpreting the letter as "Wow! The Rangers are actuall going to rebuild!" was us hearing what we wanted to hear.

Further evidence of this was obviously JD & Gorton's firings. From an article titled "Jim Dolan’s Rangers vision clashed with John Davidson-Jeff Gorton blueprint" (pretty direct...)

Jim Dolan’s Rangers vision clashed with John Davidson-Jeff Gorton blueprint

The Letter is in the past. The past is in the rearview mirror with Davidson and Gorton. This is all about the future. Development has left Penn Station.

nypost.com

Now certainly, the specifics of "accelerating the rebuild" like keeping Kreider, signing Panarin and dealing for Trouba were on JD and Gorton. I just think it's wild to suggest that Dolan had no influence on the overall approach to team building, when every piece of evidence we had (as well as common sense that the owner of the team would set guardrails and objectives for the org) would indicate he did.

I just dont understand how Dolan is so dumb. Isnt it more enticing to be patient for a few years and build a long term contender? At least give it a try and if its Buffalo 2.0 then Dolan can push for some big UFA signings. I just dont get how this is a better alternative

Trading Trocheck would be a big mistake unless its a huge overpayment. Even if he isnt at his peak anymore he is exactly the type of vet you would want to bring in to set the tone for a young locker room.

If they clean house of all the other dead weight, there will still need to be vets on this team that personify the way the team wants to play. To me thats Vinny to a T.

I agree but I think a team will overpay. Also, you can find another vet to fill that role

 

[Machinehead]

I'd be open to dealing Trocheck but I'm not into the whole "he's a vet therefore get rid of him."

I'd have to impressed by the return.

 

[TGWL]

I'd be open to dealing Trocheck but I'm not into the whole "he's a vet therefore get rid of him."

I'd have to impressed by the return.

The most likely return is going to be futures, so it won't blow anybody away.

 

[Machinehead]

The most likely return is going to be futures, so it won't blow anybody away.

The return for Nash was really good, and it was centered on futures.

 

[zlev]

if you can fleece someone for Trocheck then do it

but i ordered his jersey customization from EPS so please dont trade him for nothing

 

[TGWL]

The return for Nash was really good, and it was centered on futures.

I'm not saying it won't end up being good. But it'll be a wait and hope for the best, so i doubt the package is going to blow anybody away.

 

[kovazub94]

you get new vets. might as well sell off assets with positive value until you build youth core - which is lacking

Sure. Goodrow, Trouba, Kakko. Lindgren, Miller (very possibly Kreider and newly acquired D) is that type of the move. You don’t move ALL of vets just to go out to get new (more expensive) ones.

I'd be open to dealing Trocheck but I'm not into the whole "he's a vet therefore get rid of him."

I'd have to impressed by the return.

Yup. It has to be something that sounds unrealistic.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

You don't like restaurant critic supreme Tanner Glass?

Yeeesh, tough crowd

chacun à son goût, as they say ...

 

[Machinehead]

I'm not saying it won't end up being good. But it'll be a wait and hope for the best, so i doubt the package is going to blow anybody away.

Being "blown away" is a meme.

It would have to be something like a 1st, a roster player, and a prospect, which not everyone gets, but it has happened.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

dunno if you made this up or where you got it but it's incredible

LMAO I swear I didn’t steal it. Been saying it to my friends for years

 

[GlasgowNewYorkRanger]

chacun à son goût, as they say ...

No saxy talk please, I'm Egyptian (disclaimer) I'm actually British.

 

[JCProdigy]

All this talk about Dolan. It's amusing. One sobering thing that I don't find amusing:

Dolan has had full control of the Knicks and Rangers since 1997

Not including this season, that's 53 total seasons:

0 Championships
2 Finals appearances
27 non-playoff seasons

For whatever reason you want to give. It doesn't seem to be working...

 

[NYR Viper]

Being "blown away" is a meme.

It would have to be something like a 1st, a roster player, and a prospect, which not everyone gets, but it has happened.

It would need to be something very good and, at least in my eyes, I would want to do right by him as well. I would have to discuss it with him the direction of the team and the proposed trade taking him somewhere. Trochek has been a good Ranger. If it meant taking a bit less to send him somewhere he would prefer to go with his family I would lean in that direction. this isn't a guy with 1-2 years left on his deal. It's where he and his family will be for the next 4-5 years.

 

[McRanger92]

All this talk about Dolan. It's amusing. One sobering thing that I don't find amusing:

Dolan has had full control of the Knicks and Rangers since 1997

Not including this season, that's 53 total seasons:

0 Championships
2 Finals appearances
27 non-playoff seasons

For whatever reason you want to give. It doesn't seem to be working...

Screw Dolan but I feel like its more of a NY thing than him being a "bad" owner. He's had the rep of a good NHL owner for at least the last 20 years. Even the Rangers 1 Cup win in 80 years went against all conventional wisdom (handing the reins to a 31 year old star and trading half the team at the 94 deadline).

Winning a championship hasn't been the only goal for an owner in NYC since Steinbrenner croaked. Steve Cohen has been the closest thing since.

 

[Machinehead]

Screw Dolan but I feel like its more of a NY thing than him being a "bad" owner. He's had the rep of a good NHL owner for at least the last 20 years. Even the Rangers 1 Cup win in 80 years went against all conventional wisdom (handing the reins to a 31 year old star and trading half the team at the 94 deadline).

Winning a championship hasn't been the only goal for an owner in NYC since Steinbrenner croaked. Steve Cohen has been the closest thing since.

We were spoiled with George.

Most owners in any city don't give a toss if the team makes them a few cents.

 

[Guyute]

 

[McRanger92]

We were spoiled with George.

Most owners in any city don't give a toss if the team makes them a few cents.

It's why I love Cohen as a mets fan. yes spending money is amazing for once but he bought the team and said the Mets are a public trust and thats how he'll treat them. The fans opinion matters and should.

The Rangers (and sports as a whole real) issue is that they are more beholden to corporate interests than what the average fan wants. the lower bowl will always be filled. Wait until JD and the Straight Shot see the Gotham Sports App subscriber numbers over the holiday's, or when their building is filled with opposing fans and blue seaters booing the shit out of the players (as they should). That's how real change comes about.

 

[RangerBoy]

EF said on 32T Vegas will be active at the deadline. EF mentioned Vegas/Kelly McCrimmon will go get a winger or two. One of The Athletic guys mentioned Vegas will look at add two forwards. I think was Chris Johnston.

Kreider would be perfect for them. Kreider has two more seasons remaining. They like players with term like Hertl. Eichel.

Suzuki for Pacioretty with one year remaining and they gave him a new contract.

Vegas doesn't like rentals very much. When Vegas trades for a potential rental, they intend to sign the player. Stone. Barbashev. Hanifin. They acquire the player for a rental price and sign the player long-term.

One of their players would need to come up with an injury for LTIR for the money to work. Stone and Barbashev have missed time with injury this season. Vegas has already traded their next two first round picks. 2025 for Hertl and 2026 for Hanifin.

What would Vegas send to the Rangers?