Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLVI

[Thirty One]

I do Perry + 9oa for Smith. Could retain on Smith if we got some more picks. The 9oa should give us one of the good center prospects we are craving.

I would too. Anaheim, unfortunately, absolutely would not.

 

[True Blue]

You build a foundation with the right blend. Someone needs to teach the players how to win.

JD was talking about Hartford. The big team has Zbad and Staal. And Kreider if he is not traded. Fast falls into this category. Believe it or not, from a 4th line perspective even Smith is a solid, if overpaid, vet. This is not to state that they will not sign free agents, but I would temper the enthusiasm about big spending if they choose to go the UFA route at all.

 

[True Blue]

Smith is going to be a 4th line forward next year. He was good at it last year. Not 'good for a defenseman' good, 'good for an NHL 4th liner' good. He's a big body and the team needs beef up front. Too many games the Rangers got bodied last year.

That he can competently flex as a defenseman in effect lets the Rangers ice a 12/7 squad and is a significant structural advantage that is probably worth several points in the standings even if he himself isn't a worldbeater. Think about those games where a dman gets injured in the first 10 mins, or instances where you lose 2 PK'ing defensemen and its a 5 on 3 for 2 mins.

Makes a ton of sense and is exactly how I see his presence. Good stuff.

 

[NernieBichols]

Shattenkirk needs to go. He is blocking players. The rangers are gonna try and bring in an upgrade at RD. And if ada and pionk are both still here, and you got fox. That’s 4 RD that need to play right there. That’s not including shattenkirk.

So yeah.
I wouldn’t buy him out. I’d retain and trade him

 

[kinger8998]

This post made my head spin.Giving TDA and Buch those terms are crazy.Add in offers for both Panarin and EK.Strome as 2c.This is effectively how not to rebuild and kill your cap space at the same time.Well done.

forcing Chytil to take on 2C roles he isn't ready for this season is also not how to rebuild. showcasing strome in a 2C role and then selling him off at the deadline seems like a pretty good rebuild tactic though.

as for buchnevich and deangelo, both made signifigant strides this seaosn and bridging them in not the way to go. i can see the argument on buch with kakko and kravtsov going to surpass him on RW eventually, but not with deangelo. we all got mad at management for bridging players from 2012-2015 because it created a cap crunch, but now we want them to do the same. signing young players to long-term deals that may be overpay early but steals late is how teams contend.

how to rebuild is not creating a losing culture purposely. signing karlsson and panarin to those contracts dramatically improves our team, even if we aren't contenders year 1 while our young guns still develop. karlsson gives us that elite defenseman all cup teams have have had.

panarin, zibanejad, kakko, kravtsov, chytil and possibly buch is a pretty decent bet to build around up front.

 

[Ola]

Smith doesn’t even play defense anymore - who is he blocking? Also the Rangers won’t regularly play two rookies at LD (just look at RD last season when they brought McQuaid to shelter ADA and Pionk) at least not until the later part of the season so Staal wouldn’t block anyone, at least not for 19-20. Shattenkirk became a problem when Fox was brought in and the whole right side being so homogeneous. And even there a move can be delayed til around Christmas time having Fox spent time in Hartford until then - RD are always getting a chance and if Shattenkirk even marginally improves on what he started to show from February on - he’d be tradable with some money retained.

Two rookie LDs? Staal, Skjei, Smith and Claesson are 4 vets. There isn’t room for any kids.

 

[pld459666]

Two rookie LDs? Staal, Skjei, Smith and Claesson are 4 vets. There isn’t room for any kids.

Remove Cleason, pionk and Smith from the equation.

Cleason is a 7th d

Pionk is garbage

Smith is pretty decent 4th line winger that is defensively responsible and both willing and capable to protecting the youngsters not to mention being able to step in on D if there's an injury.

I'm not seeing the glut you are.

But that's just my opinion

 

[True Blue]

Two rookie LDs? Staal, Skjei, Smith and Claesson are 4 vets. There isn’t room for any kids.

Your assumption presumes that all would be playing. There is no reason for Claesson to dress or for Smith not to be a 4th line forward. There is no reason that Staal needs to dress for all 82 games.

 

[darko]

Skinner for 8x9M is just stupid.

Mindboggling. They'll be trying to get out of that contract by year 4 or 5.

 

[darko]

Anaheim might think smith can be a top 4 dman.

They are not stupid.

 

[GAGLine]

If the Ducks use LTIR, they really don't need to worry about cap space for this season. Here's an excerpt from the same Mirtle piece that RangerBoy posted earlier about our cap space:



Mirtle: Ranking all 31 NHL team's salary-cap situations,...

They don't have any significant RFAs to sign this year, but they'll need space next season. It seems like they'll be fine, regarding the cap, for this summer and may even try to make a move or two to give Getzlaf one last kick at a playoff run. They'll have a healthy Kase this year, plus full seasons of Max Jones and Troy Terry. I don't think they need to make any stupid decisions just to clear up cap space they don't immediately need.

LTIR only matters if the team goes over the cap, which Anaheim isn't likely to do.

 

[darko]

If they would eat half his contract I'd take a flyer on Perry. He could actually play on a line with Lemieux and Anderson if it didnt work out in the top 6 and still be a real problem to play against. I'd even go for a Smith for Perry deal as long as they threw a 3rd in to compensate for the extra cap space. I may be in the minority but I think Perry needs a change of scenery to get going again, Quinn's style would suit his physical play and encourage him to use his shot more

I'd take Perry at full hit with a sweetener. We won't need cap space this year and next. If Perry somewhat rebounds we could retain on him and trade him to a contender at the deadline (his final year).

 

[darko]

I do Perry + 9oa for Smith. Could retain on Smith if we got some more picks. The 9oa should give us one of the good center prospects we are craving.

That's a horrible deal for Anaheim.

 

[Thirty One]

Why are people pencilling in Claesson? Did I miss something?

 

[Graves94]

No team is giving us a top 20 pick to take any contract. No way. The only way the Rangers get a second pick in the top 15 is Kreider plus the 20th. That’s not good value but I think it’s closer to reality in the age of elc contribution. Right now Arizona and Buffalo, Edmonton are looking for top six scorer.

So is Montreal

 

[egelband]

I can totally see Duchene get $10M per. Panarin around 11-11.5 per. EK north of $12 per.

I'd just as well stay away from Panarin at that price point. I like the player but I'd be reserving that money for a legit top dog. I see Panarin as a second banana. A great player but not a fit with this team at that price.
Stay strong, Gorts.

 

[gravey9]

That's a horrible deal for Anaheim.

Yeah, I doubt they make that trade. I doubt they trade the #9 pick unless they're getting a younger NHLer back. They have an interesting mix of young players and some older players. They're one of those teams that could easily make the playoffs next year even if they stood pat.

That said, Perry looked like a shell of his former self last season. Fairly ineffective when I saw him, just not great for possession. Last season his game looked reminiscent of the Eric Staal we had for two months. I'm not entirely sure why his game seems to have dropped off a cliff. But unless he rebounds, he's definitely not an 8.6m player anymore. Not even like a 5m player. More like 3-4m player on a 1-2 year deal.

I don't think the Rangers can touch that contract without moving out 1-2 of their own bad contracts and I'm not sure they can get much back in a trade if they need the Ducks to retain 3-4million at least.

Given the Ducks are probably going to fight for a playoff spot as early as this season, I do think they might be interested in some of our younger vets -- Vesey, Namestnikov, Pionk...?

 

[Leetch3]

I actually do not want to see kids develop on the 4th line this year. I would like to see Chityl & Howden split duties at wing and center on the second line while Andersson mans the 3C spot with Lemieux & Strome as wings. Let Nieves or whomever else be on the 4th.

I'm good with rotating them between center and wing (andersson too) because they won't all remain centers and it would be a waste of an asset to have 1 on the 4th line in the long term. but i'm less concerned about that next year. we aren't going to have a traditional 2nd, 3rd and 4th lines. if anything I'm looking at them as almost interchangeable as we try to develop the kids.

obviously quinn would have the challenge of making sure the ice time gets split properly so they get the ice time needed. but I don't think that howden or andersson playing with fast and ?? on the '4th line' will hurt there development. not sure who the other wing is but they can learn playing with fast imo

 

[Leetch3]

forcing Chytil to take on 2C roles he isn't ready for this season is also not how to rebuild. showcasing strome in a 2C role and then selling him off at the deadline seems like a pretty good rebuild tactic though.

the best rebuild tactic is developing chytil into the best player that he can be. not trying to up strome's trade value from a 3rd round pick to a 2nd round pick. if strome or another vet is the 2C it should be to protect the development of Chytil and the other young centers. if a side benefit is raising strome's trade value at the deadline thats great but thats not the real point here IMO

 

[gravey9]

I'm good with rotating them between center and wing (andersson too) because they won't all remain centers and it would be a waste of an asset to have 1 on the 4th line in the long term. but i'm less concerned about that next year. we aren't going to have a traditional 2nd, 3rd and 4th lines. if anything I'm looking at them as almost interchangeable as we try to develop the kids.

obviously quinn would have the challenge of making sure the ice time gets split properly so they get the ice time needed. but I don't think that howden or andersson playing with fast and ?? on the '4th line' will hurt there development. not sure who the other wing is but they can learn playing with fast imo

This is the kind of thing that shows just why we need to fix Hartford. We should be shuttling kids like Andersson, Howden, Chytil and Kravtsov up and down to Hartford to make sure they're getting the development time they need as they integrate into the Rangers lineup. They can get bumped down to 4th line here or there and they can sit in the press box from time to time -- but we also need a great Hartford environment so these guys can go down there and get playing time and continue to grow instead of Quinn having to continuously find ways to slot them in to the 4th line when they struggle.

 

[GAGLine]

Why are people pencilling in Claesson? Did I miss something?

Claesson is an RFA and a guy who can sit in the press box for any number of games because we don't care about "ruining" his development. He won't cost much. He can be sent down to Hartford with likely no cap penalty.

Maybe we trade his rights, or sign him and then trade him during camp if it looks like the kids are ready. There are always teams looking for depth.

I don't see a reason to just let his rights expire for nothing.

 

[pld459666]

I don't see Chytil as a center long term at all.

I think Howden fits that bill a bit better with Lias taking over 3rd line duties longterm.

He looked more comfortable on the wing this season.

I think that's where he reaches his potential.

 

[Trxjw]

The Ducks have a lot of respect for Perry. Regardless of your opinion of his antics he's one of the best players ever to wear their jersey. Seriously doubt they're attaching the 9th overall just to scuttle him. He'll go for another team's headache and then probably sign a 1 year deal with the Ducks to retire there. I'm sure some team is willing to chance that he's a better player than the 30 games after knee surgery showed.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Why are people pencilling in Claesson? Did I miss something?

There are always certain JAGs that people love

 

[bobbop]

The only solid argument for buyout I read is from @bobbop under assumption that the Rangers will be going after big names and needing cap space to bring them.

Let me amplify.

I want to have $ available to make bold moves. Panarin is a bold move. Trading for Trouba would be a bold move. There are no other high dollar free agents I would want to consider (although some will certainly want to pursue Erik Karlsson) The are likely other trades (e..g. Colin Miller, Toronto, Tampa) that might also be available. Go big or go home.

Smith couldn’t break the top six on a bad defensive team. I expect the defense will be improved this year. There is no realistic place for him on this roster. In 2 years 7-8 players will be on ELCs and burning off the last two years of his buyout will be inconsequential.