Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLIX

[Avery16]

Really scared at the potential overpay for these two. Specially Lemmy. He can't get more than 1.8m imo.

Why, as a RFA, would he get a raise by more than 100%?

 

[NYblades]

NMC

Need Hank to retire that would be the best outcome for the Rangers cap.

 

[Edge]

And we're right back to the concept that some people fought tooth and nail against - that Lundqvist was unlikely to finish out this contract with the Rangers, and that either a buyout or retirement were very much on the table.

 

[kovazub94]

I understand, I just look at the situation in a larger context. Because there's the issue of what to do with three goalies, but also how to deal with freeing up cap space.

As I've said a few times, the value of moving from Staal to an average 5/6 D and keeping Hank as the backup while recouping some assets from Georgiev is likely greater than moving on from Hank to keep Georgiev and still sending out Staal. I think if we look at the goalie situation in a vacuum that it is a mistake, as there is more that needs to be considered; the goalie situation is linked to the greater cap situation, and that can be affected by other moves.

Or maybe they are looking at it a against a value from moving both Hank and Staal, keeping Georgiev (could be still moved later) and capitalizing on cap space a year earlier while more teams now are unprepared for flat cap in the next three years? I agree that the way to look at it is a part of bigger picture.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Why, as a RFA, would he get a raise by more than 100%?

What?

Maybe I'm low balling Lemmy, don't know how legit he is on the PK. But to me he's an ideal 4th line for us. Can't make more than 2m tops, imo.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Really scared at the potential overpay for these two. Specially Lemmy. He can't get more than 1.8m imo.

Oh, I wouldn’t even give him more than 1.25M. He’s nice but a realistically expendable piece. Even though I really like him as a 4LW. Fast I think we need to bring back tbh. He has an element that we sorely lack. Tenacious, effective forechecking coupled with great defensive ability. There’s a reason Panarin loves playing with him imo.

A 2.5x3 contract would be fine imo

 

[NYRFANMANI]

A 2.5x3 contract would be fine imo

Yessir. That's a really cool number, hope the Fast camp takes that. There is glory to be had.

Lemmy locks up 4LW, Fast is ultimately a bottom-6 RW. Two poised players, we need that poise badly.

 

[RGY]

The Rangers don't seem to be in as big a rush to fill that need as the people on this board do. The Rangers were almost a playoff team with him last season. Add Laf, another year of Kakko and Chytil and we're probably a wild card team. We aren't winning the cup next season - we are exiting the rebuild. Listening to JD's comments it's clear that they don't find themselves in any sort of rush. But the season after that we lose a ton of money on the books and then can go looking for that missing center piece instead of rushing to get a center just to get a center. I think people are going to be very disappointed in here when this is the plan they take.

I dont think JD or JG are in a rush. But I also think, based on their comments, they are going to explore options to upgrade and they are going to evaluate their assets in the process vs what they would bring in. If the right deal is there to strike now, theyre going to make it.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I dont think JD or JG are in a rush. But I also think, based on their comments, they are going to explore options to upgrade and they are going to evaluate their assets in the process vs what they would bring in. If the right deal is there to strike now, theyre going to make it.

I'm fine with that. But it's gotta be the right deal for the team long term. Some of the suggestions in here, in fact most I would say, don't fit that criteria.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

And we're right back to the concept that some people fought tooth and nail against - that Lundqvist was unlikely to finish out this contract with the Rangers, and that either a buyout or retirement were very much on the table.

Personally, I think there's way too much hand wringing over what to do with Hank. Nothing has happened between last offseason and this one that is going to dramatically alter what they do. They signed Panarin and they traded for Trouba knowing what Hank had left on his deal. It's not like the NTC just magically appeared or Shesterkin came out of nowhere.

 

[Avery16]

What?

Maybe I'm low balling Lemmy, don't know how legit he is on the PK. But to me he's an ideal 4th line for us. Can't make more than 2m tops, imo.

He's coming off an ELC. Even though he has arbitration rights, he's not going to double his salary on the next contract. Probably between 1.25 and 1.5, depending on term.

 

[Avery16]

Need Hank to retire that would be the best outcome for the Rangers cap.

How has needing Staal to retire for the past few seasons worked out for us? He's going to make that call and nobody else.

 

[Edge]

Personally, I think there's way too much hand wringing over what to do with Hank. Nothing has happened between last offseason and this one that is going to dramatically alter what they do. They signed Panarin and they traded for Trouba knowing what Hank had left on his deal. It's not like the NTC just magically appeared or Shesterkin came out of nowhere.

I think what's throwing them is the idea that they might need to invest money in either a LD or a center, that ADA hit rarified air with his offensive numbers, and that Kreider ended up re-signing.

Though subtle, the fact that Chytil didn't really emerge as a second line center, and Skjei didn't at least level off, and that they didn't find a buyer for Georgiev has impacted things on some level.

 

[SA16]

Unless Shesterkin gets hurt and Georgiev becomes the full time starter next season and plays at a top level his value is just going to go down no matter how well he plays due to less RFA years remaining on his deal.

 

[Avery16]

Unless Shesterkin gets hurt and Georgiev becomes the full time starter next season and plays at a top level his value is just going to go down no matter how well he plays due to less RFA years remaining on his deal.

Starting more games behind NYR defense is a great way to shrink a Gs trade value.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I think what's throwing them is the idea that they might need to invest money in either a LD or a center, that ADA hit rarified air with his offensive numbers, and that Kreider ended up re-signing.

Though subtle, the fact that Chytil didn't really emerge as a second line center, and Skjei didn't at least level off, and that they didn't find a buyer for Georgiev has impacted things on some level.

ADA is a fair point, I totally forgot about him. But they signed Kreider in Feb so they had that money accounted for. I'm still pretty high on Chytil though and think he "can" solve a lot of problems. As far as Georgiev, goalie markets are weird. They didn't get what they wanted for Talbot and I'm not sure they got what they wanted for Raanta. It's easier for me to believe they'll move Georgiev, even if it's for less than they want, than buying Hank out or hoping he'll retire. But I could be way off. Maybe JD and Gorton already know and it's just a matter of timing. For me, whether Hanks stays or get bought out, I'm just looking for the path of least resistance. If they have to suck it up for one year, so be it. I think a clean break, with no lingering cap money on the books, after next season would be the most palatable.

Anectdotely speaking, ADA is not looking to give the Rangers a break. He's looking to get paid. And have heard he's not in a hometown discount mindset

 

[SA16]

Starting more games behind NYR defense is a great way to shrink a Gs trade value.

I guess it's a good thing I included the phrase "and plays at a top level" in my statement then.

 

[Edge]

Unless Shesterkin gets hurt and Georgiev becomes the full time starter next season and plays at a top level his value is just going to go down no matter how well he plays due to less RFA years remaining on his deal.

I think that's where I am little confused myself.

I don't see Georgiev as a long-term investment that is going to increase in value. Not unless something dramatic happens to Shesterkin.

In other words, I don't see him getting into 40 games next season and taking his trade return up a tier.

I think the gamble for an interested team right now is that he could be a starter, and maybe you can grab him for a second round and maybe a little more.

But I don't know if staying with the Rangers makes him any more of "potential starter" a year from now. Even if he has a great year, I still think your return is a second and maybe slightly more than you'd get this year. I also think the odds of his value slipping, are probably slightly higher than the odds of his value increasing.

 

[Avery16]

I guess it's a good thing I included the phrase "and plays at a top level" in my statement then.

Wasnt disagreeing, just commenting.

 

[Avery16]

I think that's where I am little confused myself.

I don't see Georgiev as a long-term investment that is going to increase in value. Not unless something dramatic happens to Shesterkin.

In other words, I don't see him getting into 40 games next season and taking his trade return up a tier.

I think the gamble for an interested team right now is that he could be a starter, and maybe you can grab him for a second round and maybe a little more.

But I don't know if staying with the Rangers makes him any more of "potential starter" a year from now. Even if he has a great year, I still think your return is a second and maybe slightly more than you'd get this year. I also think the odds of his value slipping, are probably slightly higher than the odds of his value increasing.

Also factor in his age, maturity, and the instances he’s said too much to journalists already. He is not going to take a one or two-year deal on backup money knowing that he doesn’t figure into our starting plans and be cheery about it. He wants to cut his teeth, and I don’t blame him, but it probably wont be here.

 

[Savant]

On Chytil, not saying there isn’t upside there, but what does he do?
He’s not a good offense player. He’s not a good defense player. He doesn’t hit. He’s not a specialist. What keeps him relevant and why should he be untouchable if necessary?

on Georgiev, I think you try and trade him for a 2nd and use Carolina pick for veteran help, (unless AG in said deal for vet help).

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

How about Hank offering to take a pay cut? Something has to give b/c he’s not nearly the player he once was, is old, is expensive and the Rangers have his replacement. He can still be a celebrity goalie in Ny.

I don’t believe a pay cut is asking too much considering he’s been awarded multiple endorsement deals in addition to the $100 million the Rangers have paid him.

How exactly can he take a pay cut right now? His contract is his contract, you can't change it now.

 

[GAGLine]

Could Strome and Glass (Krebs) get us a quality partner for Trouba to play 1LD better than ADA?

Maybe, but I think that if we were to make that deal, it would be more about solidifying the center position than trying to flip assets for a left dman.

 

[bbny]

I think that's where I am little confused myself.

I don't see Georgiev as a long-term investment that is going to increase in value. Not unless something dramatic happens to Shesterkin.

In other words, I don't see him getting into 40 games next season and taking his trade return up a tier.

I think the gamble for an interested team right now is that he could be a starter, and maybe you can grab him for a second round and maybe a little more.

But I don't know if staying with the Rangers makes him any more of "potential starter" a year from now. Even if he has a great year, I still think your return is a second and maybe slightly more than you'd get this year. I also think the odds of his value slipping, are probably slightly higher than the odds of his value increasing.

Perhaps the Rangers view Georgiev as a high quality insurance policy who is cost controlled and worth more than a 2nd round pick today. If Shesterkin were to get hurt or if he needs more help with the workload of being an NHL starter, they have a guy there who they are comfortable leaning on at any time to perform at a reasonably high level. As great as Shesterkin looked this past year, he has played less than 40 games a season (not counting playoffs) everywhere he has been. In fact, he only had one season in the KHL where he played more than 30 games and it was 4 years ago. He has yet to endure a full NHL season.

 

[Edge]

Perhaps the Rangers view Georgiev as a high quality insurance policy who is cost controlled and worth more than a 2nd round pick today. If Shesterkin were to get hurt or if he needs more help with the workload of being an NHL starter, they have a guy there who they are comfortable leaning on at any time to perform at a reasonably high level. As great as Shesterkin looked this past year, he has played less than 40 games a season (not counting playoffs) everywhere he has been. In fact, he only had one season in the KHL where he played more than 30 games and it was 4 years ago. He has yet to endure a full NHL season.

And that's fine, I have no problem with that at all. I think that's very realistic and I very much support the concept that sometimes a guy is worth more to your roster than he is as a trade chip.

I would just caution against the belief, primarily of fans, that holding onto Georgiev is related to the belief that his trade value is likely to increase. I'd say it's more likely to stay the same, or even decrease if we're looking at it through that prism.