Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLIV

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Edge

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He's played a full season (or basically a full season) 2 times in 6 seasons.

For one reason or another he's missed more than a seasons worth of games since the 2013-14 season.

So out of six NHL seasons, he's missed a combined total of a whole season.

Moving past that, how does he look on the Rangers compared to the Jets? Eh, a bit concerned about that.

How much does he cost to acquire? Eh, a bit concerned about that too.

How much does he cost to resign? Eh, there's that too.
 
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GoAwayPanarin

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In 16-17, he held out and missed 15 games to start the year and then he was suspended for 2 games in February. So he played 60 of the 65 games he was eligible to play in. That's him playing basically a full season. You can't count that one as a durability issue.

Good point, forgot about that. So 3 out of 6 years. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for his durability regardless.

This is also a player I like and think we need (or someone like him.) As other have said, the cost may just be too high at this point. It's not that we don't have the pieces, but we shouldn't really be parting with the ones that they'd probably want, especially with an injury history.

Pionk+#20? I'm down to gamble with that. Something tells me that doesn't really start a conversation though.
 
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Ola

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Winnipeg should get a lot for Trouba. One year rental or a long term contract.


Yeah, a lot for sure, but looking at deals made lately, players haven’t fetched that much. A decent 1st maybe and an OK prospect. The Stone trade returned a good deal — but I don’t know how high they held Brannstrom. Brannstrom looks extremely good at times, but the AHL game was different.

I would be surprised if Trouba returned more than an OK young player, a 1st or and a prospect. Only considering what he is due to earn, would of course be different if he was dealt 1 for 1 for someone also making a lot of money.

If Skinner gets 9m Trouba can’t be far behind.
 

RangerBoy

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The Rangers need to move Kreider for a 1st round pick in either 2019 or 2020. They need to make the move sometime in June. Rick Carpiniello asked Gorton at Rangers break up in April about having another sell off and how the players are on the team got all depressed seeing Zuccarello and Hayes traded. Gorton agreed that he would try to avoid another huge sell off at the deadline and they would address Kreider's situation this summer. If Gorton doesn't want to re-sign Kreider and he doesn't like the offers, Kreider will probably be on the team until February.

The Rangers don't really have many players left to sell off. When the Rangers lost to Pittsburgh in 2016, that's when Gorton started to change the mix of the team and eventually decided to rebuild.

The Rangers traded Brassard.
The Rangers bought out Girardi.
The Rangers traded Stepan.
The Rangers traded Nash.
The Rangers traded McDonagh.
The Rangers traded Miller.
The Rangers traded Zuccarello.
The Rangers traded Hayes.

Klein retired. His name was mentioned in trade rumors.

Nobody wants Staal. Smith was acquired in 2017. Shattenkirk was signed in 2017. Those players don't have much trade value. Same thing with Vesey, Namestnikov and Fast.

Kreider is the only player remaining with value left who hasn't been traded. The Rangers don't have many players left to sell off.
 

Tawnos

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Good point, forgot about that. So 3 out of 6 years. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for his durability regardless.

This is also a player I like and think we need (or someone like him.) As other have said, the cost may just be too high at this point. It's not that we don't have the pieces, but we shouldn't really be parting with the ones that they'd probably want, especially with an injury history.

Pionk+#20? I'm down to gamble with that. Something tells me that doesn't really start a conversation though.

3 out of 6 years, but 2 of those years are the first two of his career. That's why I said he's basically been healthy in 3 out of the last 4 years. I'm not so sure the injury question is germane at the moment.

We've been up and over this a few times, but I think it bears repeating. Winnipeg is going to be looking for 2nd pairing LD or a 2nd line center... players who are already NHLers... as the centerpiece for a trade. I can't imagine them being interested in futures. We don't have anyone who fits the 2C role, but we do have someone who fits the 2LD role.
 

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For one reason or another he's missed more than a seasons worth of games since the 2013-14 season.

So out of six NHL seasons, he's missed a combined total of a whole season.

Moving past that, how does he look on the Rangers compared to the Jets? Eh, a bit concerned about that.

How much does he cost to acquire? Eh, a bit concerned about that too.

How much does he cost to resign? Eh, there's that too.

TBH the bolded don't really worry me that much. He's a good player and I don't really have any reason that he won't be worth what ever he gets (I don't buy the 9 million a year rumors, 7.5ish is where I'd expect him to come in.)

The price to acquire? Yeah thats a bigger hurdle for me. Having that additional 1st this year gives the Rangers a leg up on other teams who may be interested (and I'm not opposed to moving it) but how much beyond that are we talking?
 

Leetch3

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Somewhat fearful the Rangers will be interested in Trouba. Just not sold on him for what he is going to demand in salary.

the rangers will and should be interested UNTIL they see the price tag...we've seen absolutely nothing to suggest that the rangers are willing to pay that kind of ransom for a player at this stage in the process. IMO they will call but won't be willing to pay the price they can get from a contending team.

I think trouba would be a near perfect fit for this team, but realistically it only happens if he signs a 1 year deal and becomes a UFA or deadline rental.
 
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3 out of 6 years, but 2 of those years are the first two of his career. That's why I said he's basically been healthy in 3 out of the last 4 years. I'm not so sure the injury question is germane at the moment.

We've been up and over this a few times, but I think it bears repeating. Winnipeg is going to be looking for 2nd pairing LD or a 2nd line center... players who are already NHLers... as the centerpiece for a trade. I can't imagine them being interested in futures. We don't have anyone who fits the 2C role, but we do have someone who fits the 2LD role.

If it were 1 for 1 I'd probably do it.

I think they'll want a mixture of now help+draft pick(s).
 

Ghost of jas

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3 out of 6 years, but 2 of those years are the first two of his career. That's why I said he's basically been healthy in 3 out of the last 4 years. I'm not so sure the injury question is germane at the moment.

We've been up and over this a few times, but I think it bears repeating. Winnipeg is going to be looking for 2nd pairing LD or a 2nd line center... players who are already NHLers... as the centerpiece for a trade. I can't imagine them being interested in futures. We don't have anyone who fits the 2C role, but we do have someone who fits the 2LD role.

Skjei and Andersson for Trouba is a fair deal for both sides.
 

JimmyG89

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Skjei and Andersson for Trouba is a fair deal for both sides.

It is, but I don't see them giving up on Andersson this early. Former 7th overall pick, two years removed from that status and it's not like his peers are lapping the field with him. Not to mention that after the three young centers we have under contract now, we don't have anyone else. Nobody is coming through the system. If Chytil or Howden don't become 2C like, we'd be in serious trouble.

I'd prefer they not go this route at all. Keep what we have and continue to progress.
 

Ghost of jas

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It is, but I don't see them giving up on Andersson this early. Former 7th overall pick, two years removed from that status and it's not like his peers are lapping the field with him. Not to mention that after the three young centers we have under contract now, we don't have anyone else. Nobody is coming through the system. If Chytil or Howden don't become 2C like, we'd be in serious trouble.

I'd prefer they not go this route at all. Keep what we have and continue to progress.

We have the upcoming draft and next year's first round. I remain unconvinced any of Andersson, Chytil or Howden becomes the 2c.
 
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DutchShamrock

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Currently this club has two first line players that are ready willing and able for primetime.

1) Zibanejad
2) Kreider

Majority of the board wants to trade one of them out.

Currently this club has 2 additional players that are top 6 forwards.

1) Strome
2) Buchnevich

Were now talking about trading one of them out as well.

Currently this club is banking on a 19 year old Center to grow into that #2C slot. The reality of it is they still don't really know what they have in Chytil.
The good thing is there is a Rookie coming over from Russia that can make the top 6 as a Winger and maybe even as a C. Can't bank on that though.
The fanbase here also seems to have Kakko penciled into the top 6 already. The Organization didn't even draft this player yet.

Currently there is no replacement in the system for #20 or for #89. For that reason i do not think either player is moved at the draft, or in the offseason unless another forward is coming back in the return which is entirely possible. I just don't think of it as probable. Moving either player for a Defenseman (For those on the Trouba train) to me seems quite unlikely.

While this club is certainly still in rebuild mode, a top 6 without #20, #89 with either Fast, Names or Vesey in their places seems to me to be something that Quinn and company will not be on board with.
This is a good take. I guess if I'm playing devils advocate I look at Columbus. They trade a 1st line center for a top 4, future #1 d. They didn't have a comparable center in the system to take over but they draft PLD shortly after. Dial back the parts in play, wings and draft picks instead of defense and center. If I take a gamble, it's best to risk a wing.

If we can get to 8 and take a top 6 center, then a top 4 d at 20, we walk out of the 1st with a great base including Kakko. It's a crapshoot, admittedly, but the outlook for Buchnevich is a tad optimistic. He went from healthy scratch to best wing by default. Not to take anything away from him, but he is far from a lock. He could be the next Prucha or Chiasson or Nichushin. He could be that player we all dreamed of draft day as well. It's just funny he went from a bust to a lock in half a season and its madness to ever think of parting from a quality wing.

Again, I'll be just as content to keep Pavel as to get into the top 10.
 

Ola

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Just for the record, I think Jacob Trouba's value is much lower than estimated out there. It is to a very large extent dependent on if Trouba is willing to negotiate with a large number of suitors. I do not think he is prepared to do that. If a team like NJ or NYI gets permission to talk to him, would he state a reasonable price and let them know that he would be willing to sign with them if they meet that price? I would not bet on that. Most players in his situation lately has only been interested in going to a very limited amount of places (which those places are have of course depended a lot on the player in question, but in large many have been the same). I am not even sure he would be interesting in signing with us if Gorton can agree on a price with him, might only be Detroit, might only be a smaller number of top contenders, might only be non-state income tax states and so forth. Who knows.

But if the teams he would consider going to easily can be counted on one hand, and you take into account the cap situations of those teams and that Trouba most likely will come in as a 8-9m D, really, who da heck would give up a bunch of top assets for him? Its important to remember that Trouba to a much larger extent can be compared to like Shatty than someone really accomplished. His pts are inflated from playing for Winny, but he has never been able to really assume a big No 1 role. He is pretty quite when you watch Winnipeg play.

The Winnipeg community has never been that impressed with Tyler Myers. Mostly due to usage, some of his metrics aren't great. But fact is that Myers has played perfectly OK for them. I don't think anyone envision him to like lose a step in the near future, he is like Chara, the big challenge isn't foot speed its becoming strong enough in the core in relation to the weight you carry on the upper body so that you can move well. He will skate like he does now for a good 6-7 more years. Big righty D that has a hard shot. Myers might resign long-term in Winnipeg, but I think he will get a big pay day if he makes it to July 1. Myers hasn't commented on it, but I do wonder if there isn't interest from him to go to Dallas as a Texas kid.

If Winnipeg loses Myers they are really bare at RD if Trouba is traded. Then some will say -- well, if Myers bolts they will keep Trouba has a self-rental. But I am far from sold on that. Look at Winnipeg, -- why -- should they win a Cup next season?? They should and will be worse next season than this year, and this year they weren't close. Myers and Hayes would be gone. Sure some kids are getting older, but Wheeler, Buff and Little are getting older too. If they lose Trouba for nothing next summer -- how would that impact the prospect of their future?? It wouldn't look great at all. I think they would want to really retool their RD position if Trouba is traded. And that should be really hard if the number of locations Trouba will broker a new deal with is very limited, consisting of maybe 3-4 locations.

Just my take.
 
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McRanger

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Skjei and Andersson for Trouba is a fair deal for both sides.

Trouba, ADA, Shattenkirk, Fox, and Pionk are certainly a healthy number of options for RD.

But what the hell do we do about LD now and over the next few years?
 

Ola

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Trouba, ADA, Shattenkirk, Fox, and Pionk are certainly a healthy number of options for RD.

But what the hell do we do about LD now and over the next few years?

DeAngelo's name could come up in discussions with Chevy.
 

Ola

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Personally, I would rather go with Pionk as a shut-down D on the right side until we can find someone at a better value than Trouba -- unless we could get him on very favorable terms.
 
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Ola

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Gorton must stop fooling around with Shatty. Has Kevin delivered his no-trade list to Gorton? It should have been requested yesterday. What is this? Why aren't reporters pushing Gorton on this???
 

NernieBichols

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The Rangers need to move Kreider for a 1st round pick in either 2019 or 2020. They need to make the move sometime in June. Rick Carpiniello asked Gorton at Rangers break up in April about having another sell off and how the players are on the team got all depressed seeing Zuccarello and Hayes traded. Gorton agreed that he would try to avoid another huge sell off at the deadline and they would address Kreider's situation this summer. If Gorton doesn't want to re-sign Kreider and he doesn't like the offers, Kreider will probably be on the team until February.

The Rangers don't really have many players left to sell off. When the Rangers lost to Pittsburgh in 2016, that's when Gorton started to change the mix of the team and eventually decided to rebuild.

The Rangers traded Brassard.
The Rangers bought out Girardi.
The Rangers traded Stepan.
The Rangers traded Nash.
The Rangers traded McDonagh.
The Rangers traded Miller.
The Rangers traded Zuccarello.
The Rangers traded Hayes.

Klein retired. His name was mentioned in trade rumors.

Nobody wants Staal. Smith was acquired in 2017. Shattenkirk was signed in 2017. Those players don't have much trade value. Same thing with Vesey, Namestnikov and Fast.

Kreider is the only player remaining with value left who hasn't been traded. The Rangers don't have many players left to sell off.
Right on RangerB

Brassard for Mika was Gort’s 1st real official move. And it was the signaling to me at least he knew he had to reshuffle at least. I calling for it after the 15-16 loss to Pitt and you were one of the 1st to mention Mika late in the season, even before the loss.

We hear the rumors that they had a deal that same summer at the draft that fell through. Maybe once that deal fell through, instead of thoroughly working trade possibilities, to pull it off the table and see what unfolded.

I personally get the feeling, they were at the same time straddling the fence of giving the guys another go and another shot at it while looking to make deals, and Smith was a rental made towards towards giving the team an infusion at a shot, and dang they should have been playing Pitt in the ECF, and we know what happened. And smith played well, he added an element and he seems like a well liked guy, so they saw him as a bridge, let’s see if these guys start 17-18 hot and maybe we get magic going again, and if not Smith could and would become part of the next wave of the team makeup.

And then shattenkirk came to them with an offer that he obviously thought he couldn’t pass up.

And so things might unfold.

But your right on about the signaling of what was coming or where gorts wanted to go
 
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effen

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For Winnipeg, Trouba's not going for a moderate downgrade defenseman who makes significant money. Just re-sign the far superior player in Trouba if you're doing that. If he goes, it's for futures or guys on ELCs given their cap.

For the Rangers, to get a top-4 D at the expense of your only other top-4 D doesn't seem very smart. Before anyone posts about him, ADA had a really nice half a year in the middle of the season. He needs to show he can do it again before much faith is put in him I would think.

I don't see a match b/t the two teams.
 

bobbop

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Just for the record, I think Jacob Trouba's value is much lower than estimated out there. It is to a very large extent dependent on if Trouba is willing to negotiate with a large number of suitors. I do not think he is prepared to do that. If a team like NJ or NYI gets permission to talk to him, would he state a reasonable price and let them know that he would be willing to sign with them if they meet that price? I would not bet on that. Most players in his situation lately has only been interested in going to a very limited amount of places (which those places are have of course depended a lot on the player in question, but in large many have been the same). I am not even sure he would be interesting in signing with us if Gorton can agree on a price with him, might only be Detroit, might only be a smaller number of top contenders, might only be non-state income tax states and so forth. Who knows.

But if the teams he would consider going to easily can be counted on one hand, and you take into account the cap situations of those teams and that Trouba most likely will come in as a 8-9m D, really, who da heck would give up a bunch of top assets for him? Its important to remember that Trouba to a much larger extent can be compared to like Shatty than someone really accomplished. His pts are inflated from playing for Winny, but he has never been able to really assume a big No 1 role. He is pretty quite when you watch Winnipeg play.

The Winnipeg community has never been that impressed with Tyler Myers. Mostly due to usage, some of his metrics aren't great. But fact is that Myers has played perfectly OK for them. I don't think anyone envision him to like lose a step in the near future, he is like Chara, the big challenge isn't foot speed its becoming strong enough in the core in relation to the weight you carry on the upper body so that you can move well. He will skate like he does now for a good 6-7 more years. Big righty D that has a hard shot. Myers might resign long-term in Winnipeg, but I think he will get a big pay day if he makes it to July 1. Myers hasn't commented on it, but I do wonder if there isn't interest from him to go to Dallas as a Texas kid.

If Winnipeg loses Myers they are really bare at RD if Trouba is traded. Then some will say -- well, if Myers bolts they will keep Trouba has a self-rental. But I am far from sold on that. Look at Winnipeg, -- why -- should they win a Cup next season?? They should and will be worse next season than this year, and this year they weren't close. Myers and Hayes would be gone. Sure some kids are getting older, but Wheeler, Buff and Little are getting older too. If they lose Trouba for nothing next summer -- how would that impact the prospect of their future?? It wouldn't look great at all. I think they would want to really retool their RD position if Trouba is traded. And that should be really hard if the number of locations Trouba will broker a new deal with is very limited, consisting of maybe 3-4 locations.

Just my take.
If Trouba is not willing to sign a long term contract, this whole exercise is moot.
 

effen

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Gorton must stop fooling around with Shatty. Has Kevin delivered his no-trade list to Gorton? It should have been requested yesterday. What is this? Why aren't reporters pushing Gorton on this???
Why on earth would anyone want Shattenkirk at 6.65m dollar hit, 20 pounds overweight, and 0 hair? come on ola

oh and he's due $8M in real money this coming year. lol.
 

Levitate

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Gorton must stop fooling around with Shatty. Has Kevin delivered his no-trade list to Gorton? It should have been requested yesterday. What is this? Why aren't reporters pushing Gorton on this???

Well, how do you know it hasn't been? Gorton has been even more tight lipped about his moves than Sather, who would at least leak some stuff now and then. No use getting indignant about things we can't know the truth behind.

That said, I don't think there is or should be a rush to dump all the vets as fast as possible and someone like Kreider might even be a player they decide to keep around.

Remember that Gorton has talked about "accelerating the rebuild" several times and it has never been their intention to be bad for a long time and slowly get better. That's part of why they targeted players like Howden, Hajek, Rykov, DeAngelo, Fox, etc. They've been looking to bring in young players who are ready to start contributing sooner rather than later.

While it wouldn't surprise me to see Kreider traded, it also wouldn't surprise me to see him kept as kind of a bridging piece (along with Zibanejad, etc). My suspicion is that Gorton wants to see this team making a push for the playoffs by the 2020 season and not be a bubble team for long after that but right back to being a contender.
 

Kovalev27

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JD won’t let Gorton sit on his hands all summer like he did last year. Moves will be made here and soon. Shattenkirk is a goner. Namestnikov and Vesey most likely as well.

I’m not sure they see value in moving Kreider to sign panarin. Kreider adds an element we don’t have a lot of. Net front presence.

I’m not convinced he’s moved.

I see us going hard for Karlsson
 
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bobbop

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Winnipeg is also navigating through a very difficult salary cap situation. They are not able to take on big money. That may or may not kill the idea of sending Skeji there. They certainly would interested in the Anderssons and Howdens of the world. I've got to think Mika, Miller, Fox, Kravtsov and probably Chytil are off limits. Beyond that, who knows.
 
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