Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLIV

[eco's bones]

Ristolainen is 24 with size and skill. He's not a afraid to play physical. He's had 4 straight years in Buffalo of over 40 points. I wouldn't have an issue taking him on for the right price. Maybe it's going to take some work defensively but when we're talking about a team that's going through a lot of development what's the big deal of adding one more? DeAngelo and Pionk are relatively the same size with defensive issues too and this guy is bigger and been a more offensively productive player.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

There are players you are willing to trade and there are players you want to trade. There’s a lot that goes on that we are not privy to.

Teams know things we don’t. More importantly, teams know their own players better than other teams do. That’s why sometimes surprising trades fall out of the sky.

I’ve always watched Buchnevich and usually left wanting a little more. I thought he was turning a corner in the last six weeks of the season. We will find out what management thinks in the next few weeks.

I wonder if this same argument can be made for DeAngelo too

 

[bobbop]

I wonder if this same argument can be made for DeAngelo too

I think it’s already been made by a few of his teams.

Of course, much of this was known when he was draft eligible.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

I think it’s already been made by a few of his teams.

Of course, much of this was known when he was draft eligible.

Absolutely, I just wonder what’s going on behind the scenes. Seems like he needs to be babysat.

 

[bobbop]

Which team is trading for Buch as a pending arbitration eligible RFA with two RFA year left?

Help me understand why the Rangers don’t have three years of control over Buchnevich. He just turned 24.

 

[McRanger]

Ah the ol' moving of the goal posts.

OV's best offensive seasons occured in his 20's. You can point to improved defensive play or what ever, he scored 60+ and won an art ross + hart at 22.

True, though (to put it in a Panarin-ish time frame) the 4 years from ages 25-28 Ovie scored less goals per game than he did during the 4 years he was 29-32. (153 in 283 games vs. 185 in 324) though his overall points per game dropped a bit during the same time frame (285 in 283 vs. 308 in 324).

Actually if you add a year on both sides he scored more goals per game from 29-33 than he did from 24-28, (though the points disparity widened) which is weird. I would like to attribute it to Kuznetsov bumping up his PP goals but it looks like by the time EK broke out Ovie's PP goals actually dropped, so who knows.

Anyway if the argument is about late 20's/ early 30's vs. peak years, Ovie is a bad choice. But if the argument is about maintaining production from mid 20's to late 20's/ early 30's (which is usually the topic of convo when it's about Panarin) Ovie isn't a bad example. Kessel isn't either, from 29-31 his goals dropped but his points went up compared to 26-28 (he's only 31, so theres less data).

Of course this is in a vacuum. Ovie is a generational player and freak athlete and Kessel played with 2 generational players. The reality is that there is probably not a good comparison out there. Every player is different.

 

[Trxjw]

Fans look at Buchnevich's final six weeks and see a guy turning the corner. It's totally possible that the Rangers see that as a player building up enough trade value to return a piece they like more. I think it's unlikely but it's all a matter of perspective.

Too often fans look at a guy being traded as an indict that the team didn't like them when quite often it's just about liking the other piece more.

 

[Off Sides]

Help me understand why the Rangers don’t have three years of control over Buchnevich. He just turned 24.

I think you are correct, I had him as 25 already.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Help me understand why the Rangers don’t have three years of control over Buchnevich. He just turned 24.

Buchnevich is RFA eligible for 3 more years. A player hits UFA eligibility either after 7 NHL seasons or if he's 27 on July 1st (start of the season). Buchnevich is 24 at the moment and has accrued 3 NHL season

 

[Edge]

Fans look at Buchnevich's final six weeks and see a guy turning the corner. It's totally possible that the Rangers see that as a player building up enough trade value to return a piece they like more. I think it's unlikely but it's all a matter of perspective.

Too often fans look at a guy being traded as an indict that the team didn't like them when quite often it's just about liking the other piece more.

I do think Buch is definitely on the table for discussions. I think it's more a matter of finding a scenario they feel is worth the risk.

Does that mean shopping him to Edmonton? Does that mean dangling him for a defenseman? Does that include moving him and Kreider out in the same span of time? I'm not sure.

While he very well could be moved, I'm not sure they're quite going into the summer with the mindset of using him as bait.

 

[Ola]

Buffalo is another team like EDM that are really poor managed. I think EDM understood what to look for in many ways, but they screwed up the balance with Lucic and Kassian and Maroon, besides mainly couldn’t support and develop their kids.

Buffalo is way to slow. Eichel is extremely immobile and is a floater. Reinhart is a poor skater, just a little better than Ryan Strome. Okposo can’t skate. Sobotka isn’t exactly a dynamo. Girgenson is pretty immobile. Skinner plays with his head looking down and under his arm and with blindfolds on. He is so lost that it’s almost a strength because he is impossible to read... Its just a bad mix they have up front.

 

[Trxjw]

I do think Buch is definitely on the table for discussions. I think it's more a matter of finding a scenario they feel is worth the risk.

Does that mean shopping him to Edmonton? Does that mean dangling him for a defenseman? Does that include moving him and Kreider out in the same span of time? I'm not sure.

While he very well could be moved, I'm not sure they're quite going into the summer with the mindset of using him as bait.

I would bet that the rumblings are because teams are calling about him. He's the one player on the team who has sniffed some of his potential but is also still under team control for several more years because he's just a RFA.

I think to get into the top 10 or 12 or for a foundation piece on the blue line he could be had. I don't expect the Rangers are looking for the best offer out of the fray but rather the one team who is willing to meet, or come close at meeting their asking price.

Edmonton does seem to me like a team who would be interested.

 

[Ola]

Fans look at Buchnevich's final six weeks and see a guy turning the corner. It's totally possible that the Rangers see that as a player building up enough trade value to return a piece they like more. I think it's unlikely but it's all a matter of perspective.

Too often fans look at a guy being traded as an indict that the team didn't like them when quite often it's just about liking the other piece more.

Agreed, I am really not in favor of moving Buch. He is perfect in many ways coming off his ELC without quite finding his way at 23 which means that we can get all of his prime years cheap.

But it Kakko plays the same role as anyone else on this team — it’s the same role as Buch plays. 5 on 5 and on the PP. But we have invested a lot in Buch and will have to wait a long time to get another shot at a real pay-off like he can bring. But if the return is right — sure.

 

[RangerBoy]

Winnipeg should get a lot for Trouba. One year rental or a long term contract.

 

[Lion Hound]

Currently this club has two first line players that are ready willing and able for primetime.

1) Zibanejad
2) Kreider

Majority of the board wants to trade one of them out.

Currently this club has 2 additional players that are top 6 forwards.

1) Strome
2) Buchnevich

Were now talking about trading one of them out as well.

Currently this club is banking on a 19 year old Center to grow into that #2C slot. The reality of it is they still don't really know what they have in Chytil.
The good thing is there is a Rookie coming over from Russia that can make the top 6 as a Winger and maybe even as a C. Can't bank on that though.
The fanbase here also seems to have Kakko penciled into the top 6 already. The Organization didn't even draft this player yet.

Currently there is no replacement in the system for #20 or for #89. For that reason i do not think either player is moved at the draft, or in the offseason unless another forward is coming back in the return which is entirely possible. I just don't think of it as probable. Moving either player for a Defenseman (For those on the Trouba train) to me seems quite unlikely.

While this club is certainly still in rebuild mode, a top 6 without #20, #89 with either Fast, Names or Vesey in their places seems to me to be something that Quinn and company will not be on board with.

 

[Trxjw]

Agreed, I am really not in favor of moving Buch. He is perfect in many ways coming off his ELC without quite finding his way at 23 which means that we can get all of his prime years cheap.

But it Kakko plays the same role as anyone else on this team — it’s the same role as Buch plays. 5 on 5 and on the PP. But we have invested a lot in Buch and will have to wait a long time to get another shot at a real pay-off like he can bring. But if the return is right — sure.

I'm admittedly Luke warm on Buch but I'm in no way trying to push him out the door. However, if I put myself in the Rangers shoes, I can see the case for moving him. If the team sees him long term as their 3rd or 4th best winger, perhaps even right winger specifically, and have the opportunity to move him in a deal that nets them their best or 2nd best center or defensemen, well, that's a deal you need to make. It just might take some time for that result to come to fruition and there's an inherent risk involved as well.

 

[RGY]

Winnipeg should get a lot for Trouba. One year rental or a long term contract.

Somewhat fearful the Rangers will be interested in Trouba. Just not sold on him for what he is going to demand in salary.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Somewhat fearful the Rangers will be interested in Trouba. Just not sold on him for what he is going to demand in salary.

Hes a good player.

The issue with him is durability which is something that needs to be taken into consideration though.

 

[Tawnos]

Hes a good player.

The issue with him is durability which is something that needs to be taken into consideration though.

I think this is overstated. He's missed significant injury time once in the last 4 years.

 

[bobbop]

The chance to acquire a 25 year old top pair defenseman doesn’t come along very often. Hard to make the argument that he is too old for the future contending window. This is not a shortcut in any way shape or form.

I’m cautious about moving too many assets in a situation like this but I am listening. The $ doesn’t bother me. No matter what we or anyone else pays, the board will call it an overpayment.

Also intrigued that Brooks dropped Trouba’s name into an article when Fox was acquired.

Bottom line though, I don’t know if the Rangers have that one asset Winnipeg would want as the centerpiece. I think they may be better deals out there for the Jets.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think this is overstated. He's missed significant injury time once in the last 4 years.

He's played a full season (or basically a full season) 2 times in 6 seasons.

 

[kinger8998]

On Kreider: there is a tweet cirulating today about him being among an elite group of two way wingers. If he is willing to go 5x6.5 on an extension I do it, the 6th year is what scares me. If that sixth year is boiling point, or his salary is @ 7M +, I bite the bullet and get a haul that includes either a high first, prospect + young roster player OR go for the top 50 prospect, mid/late first and roster player
On Buch: In my opinion, there is only one sensible way to handle this. It's very clear with Kakko and Kravtsov incoming, while Buch may be our best RW next season, he won't be for long. So, I propose a 2-3 year deal, and should he break out next year we trade him at high value and we won't owe him his next deal. The receiving team gets him for 1-2 more years cheap and they can deal with his next deal. If he breaks out and is able to play LW, that works perfectly fine too and we keep him on LW in top-6 with kreider/replacement.
On Panarin: Would be great at 7x11, best FA in a while. That being said, I wouldn't say this is a do or die situation. Don't be forced higher in a bidding war.
On Mika: Sure, if it turns into a Stepan trade situation in 2 years, do it. But he is our #1 center and it would be stupid to trade him away without a backup plan going into the years where we contend. There are still plenty of players who contribute during ages 33-35, so I don't know what the huge fear is with potentially signing a our #1C, who doesn't play a rough game (like Kreider) to a deal.
On Pionk: get him out of here
On Tony DeA: long term deal please

that is all. do not @ me

 

[Levitate]

I'd love Trouba, I just worry about the cost to acquire him. It may not be something we want to pay

 

[Tawnos]

He's played a full season (or basically a full season) 2 times in 6 seasons.

In 16-17, he held out and missed 15 games to start the year and then he was suspended for 2 games in February. So he played 60 of the 65 games he was eligible to play in. That's him playing basically a full season. You can't count that one as a durability issue.

 

[Edge]

Somewhat fearful the Rangers will be interested in Trouba. Just not sold on him for what he is going to demand in salary.

I like Trouba. I don't love Trouba.

So then you start factoring in the cost to trade for him, and the cost to resign him, and it starts adding up quickly for a player I'm not head over heels for.

Having said that, I suspect the Jets are going to want to ready to roll NHL talent.