Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLIV

[UAGoalieGuy]

Skinner is used as a winger in Buffalo right? I see hes listed as a center but if utilized as a winger could give a good idea of what Kreider could possibly get. More of the goals side of things a bit more in points. Also will be 2 years younger then Kreider when his new deal starts (27 VS 29).

 

[effen]

You know my feelings on this.

Shouldn’t have kept namestnikov and spooner.

Shouldn’t have kept zucc and Hayes till the deadline. They should have been dealt last summer like everyone is clamoring for in regard to Kreider if he isn’t going to be kept.

Sat on our hands last summer

Teams don't want to trade for other teams expensive depth players in the summer because they are optimistic they can develop their own inexpensive depth players.

IDK why you think there were all these deals out there to be had when optimism is high and pressure is non-existent.

 

[eco's bones]

Booby Mac says Buffalo is closing in on signing Jeff Skinner to an 8 year, $72 million contract.

Yowie Wowie.

There's a lot to like about Skinner as a player but he's had a bunch of concussions. I don't see any way he gets to the end of 8 years without either going into a major decline or being forced to retire early. It will be one or the other I would think. Not a player I would really like to gamble on for that length.

 

[Ola]

Well, how do you know it hasn't been? Gorton has been even more tight lipped about his moves than Sather, who would at least leak some stuff now and then. No use getting indignant about things we can't know the truth behind.

That said, I don't think there is or should be a rush to dump all the vets as fast as possible and someone like Kreider might even be a player they decide to keep around.

Remember that Gorton has talked about "accelerating the rebuild" several times and it has never been their intention to be bad for a long time and slowly get better. That's part of why they targeted players like Howden, Hajek, Rykov, DeAngelo, Fox, etc. They've been looking to bring in young players who are ready to start contributing sooner rather than later.

While it wouldn't surprise me to see Kreider traded, it also wouldn't surprise me to see him kept as kind of a bridging piece (along with Zibanejad, etc). My suspicion is that Gorton wants to see this team making a push for the playoffs by the 2020 season and not be a bubble team for long after that but right back to being a contender.

Well I know that nobody have asked Gorton about it at least...

And if Gorton was pushing for a deal — why keep quite about it? You let everyone know that someone is available it usually leaks. Why aren’t there any leaks?

 

[eco's bones]

Skjei is a pretty good top 4 D. Problem is when he's your best all around defenseman. The Rangers probably don't have an actual #1D coming from all their defense prospects but they do have a lot of really good prospects that should become very good defense including guys that might become first pairing (as in #2 D's). Miller and Fox are great prospects and after that Hajek, Rykov, Lundkvist, Lindgren, Reunanen, Keane, Bigras, Ragnarsson, Gross besides Skjei, DeAngelo, Pionk--there should be a lot of there there given a year/two/three years from now. Some day Skjei might fall back into that second pairing and be solid as f*** there.

 

[Ola]

I would rather keep Shattenkirk and let him try to build his value up. Worst case is that he's on the team two more years. Zaitsev has five more years at a high cap number. He's a glorified bottom pairing defenseman. A low 1st round pick isn't enough for me to eat Zaitsev's contract AND eat half of Shattenkirk for two years. Pass big time.

We also need someone that can PK at RD. So which two of Fox, TDA and Pionk sits why Shattenkirk “try to rebuild his value? Is it worth it to destroy TDA/Fox for whatever gain to Shatty’s value that we might see?

And why on earth would he improve his value? I just don’t get this. Why??

 

[Ola]

If Trouba is not willing to sign a long term contract, this whole exercise is moot.

What do you mean? Like if he wasn’t willing to resign with anyone? Why wouldn’t he? I’ve never heard of anyone not being willing to sign with anyone. You think he will retire?

 

[Trxjw]

I don't think the Leafs will have as hard a time moving Zaitsev as people think. He's not going to fetch a whole lot but there's some belief that he's been very badly misused under Babcock and as an offensive 2nd pairing option you could do much worse.

That being said I don't see the Rangers getting involved there.

 

[haohmaru]

What do you mean? Like if he wasn’t willing to resign with anyone? Why wouldn’t he? I’ve never heard of anyone not being willing to sign with anyone. You think he will retire?

I think he meant that if you're trading for him it better be almost guaranteed that he's signing with the team that's trading for him.

 

[effen]

We also need someone that can PK at RD. So which two of Fox, TDA and Pionk sits why Shattenkirk “try to rebuild his value? Is it worth it to destroy TDA/Fox for whatever gain to Shatty’s value that we might see?

And why on earth would he improve his value? I just don’t get this. Why??

Fox probably plays in HFD for a lot of the year if he doesn't brute force his way onto the roster in training camp. Since Quinn isn't blind, Pionk probably gets a few chances and blows them and is the 7th D. There's your two.

Smith probably does RD PK duties like he did last year while playing at forward.

Injuries are a thing and the Rangers were pretty darn fortunate last year with them. Depth is a good thing.

 

[Ola]

It’s very very typical of Gorts to keep Shatty and think that TDA or Fox can play at LD, just so ‘Shatty can build up his value’. We will screw the kids development, and best case scenario Gorts might be able to retain a little less on Shatty or like get a 3rd round pick or whatever.

I just hate it that the NY media always is playing along with that crap. Shatty was a bad signing to start with, half the posters at this place knew it. He shows up out of shape. Doesn’t seem like he is the biggest role model around. He is the worst possible fit for us given that he plays the exact same role as — THREE — kids we have at the same position.

But he is friends with the Maloneys. Families knows each other or whatever. He is paid a lot and is a big UFA signing — so he gets away with anything. It’s only those guys this franchise respects. Nobody ever thought twice about moving the other guys who gave their heart and soul for this team.

Players don’t recover their value, vets don’t. It never happens. How often haven’t we heard that from other places? Oh we aren’t trading X now, his value is at an all time low, let’s wait and see.

 

[Thirty One]

We also need someone that can PK at RD. So which two of Fox, TDA and Pionk sits why Shattenkirk “try to rebuild his value? Is it worth it to destroy TDA/Fox for whatever gain to Shatty’s value that we might see?

And why on earth would he improve his value? I just don’t get this. Why??

His value will improve because he'll go from being owed $10.6 million over two years to being owed $2 million for one year after his bonus is paid next July 1 and his NTC softening a bit.

Spoilers: Quinn will want to sit TDA at points next season. It didn't destroy him last year, nor will it this year. Fox played 33 games last season. Sitting out a few in a 82 game schedule will not destroy him.

 

[NYR Viper]

I’m still interested in Trouba, but, like all things we discuss, it depends on the price. Skjei + something small? Sure. I’m not trading Chytil or anything major their way. Skjei is a top-4 LD who still has room to grow. Trouba can sign a 1 year deal and make it to UFA. Does Winnipeg want to lose that asset in a years time?

Even as a top-4 RD he has value at $6-7m per season with the cap increasing on a long term deal.

 

[Ola]

Fox probably plays in HFD for a lot of the year if he doesn't brute force his way onto the roster in training camp. Since Quinn isn't blind, Pionk probably gets a few chances and blows them and is the 7th D. There's your two.

Smith probably does RD PK duties like he did last year while playing at forward.

Injuries are a thing and the Rangers were pretty darn fortunate last year with them. Depth is a good thing.

I really couldn’t disagree more, but it sounds like an extremely NYR thing to do. One Cup in 80 years, we shouldn’t be surprised.

Let’s spend our entire rebuild on not rebuilding the team, our GMs failed UFA signings Shatty and Smith must play to “build up value”. Then we stand there in 2-3 years without a defense. Smart!!! Who is Einstein, this is some clever ****.

 

[Ola]

His value will improve because he'll go from being owed $10.6 million over two years to being owed $2 million for one year after his bonus is paid next July 1 and his NTC softening a bit.

Spoilers: Quinn will want to sit TDA at points next season. It didn't destroy him last year, nor will it this year. Fox played 33 games last season. Sitting out a few in a 82 game schedule will not destroy him.

TDA was possibly our second best skater last season. Might he sit 2-3 games?

Shatty will also sit. He will not get top PP time, and without it he won’t put up points. What kind of value do you think he might gain? It can — never be worth it. Never.

What is Fox good at? Playing the point on the PP. It’s there he can shine and build up his confidence. Gorton’s plan will be to play Fox as a LD on the third pair. No PP time because TDA has earned his shot and Shatty must get his value building up time. Horrible way to develop a kid.

When Pionk sits, who plays the PK at the right side? Who hits the ice against AO and Wilson? To do it once here and there might be OK — but an 82 game schedule is really long and tough for a young team that will face its fair share of adversity.

You create all this really bad situations and really put the kids in a bad situation — like Pionk last season — just to have Shatty ‘build up his value’. It’s a joke. We should play two of TDA/Fox/Pionk in-front of a vet RD that can PK. And it’s darn important for us to find that bigger RD that can PK for the future too. If you don’t look you will never find anyone.

 

[Ola]

If we didn’t have Shatty and someone proposed that we should sign him you would be laughed off the boards. He makes — zero — sense for us. Cut your losses.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Thoughts on Kreider and Shattenkirk @ 50% for the #8, Yamamoto, Manning and a conditional #2 in 21 if Kreider resigns (3rd if he doesnt).

 

[effen]

Thoughts on Kreider and Shattenkirk @ 50% for the #8, Yamamoto, Manning and a conditional #2 in 21 if Kreider resigns (3rd if he doesnt).

Edmonton can't do that.

 

[Ola]

Retain 50% on Shatty. That puts him at 3.3m per. Be prepared to take a Belesky contract back the team trading for him is making a cap neutral trade.

Shatty only has a 10 team no trade list. Plenty of teams are looking for a RHS PPQB. They are like back-up goaltenders, you don’t want to be without them and nobody have a bunch in stock so they are often traded. He can’t fit all non-attractive locations on that list. EDM probably goes on it. Who else? Calgary, Vancouver and Ottawa. 6 left.

Gorton make a big sacrifice from a cap point of view to get rid of him — but he should be able to get a little extra in return. Teams are tight with picks. If you deal a suspect you often get best value if you take a suspect in return too.

 

[Ola]

Shatty@50% to the Islanders for Komarov and Ho-sang....

 

[Leetch3]

It certainly is. But is that group any more or less likely to succeed than ADA, Fox, Lundkvist, Keane and Pionk on the right side?

Trading Skjei for Trouba seems like making a move to solve a problem before we know where the problem is.

I think its more complicated than that though. there is alot more diversity, for lack of a better word, on the left side in terms of size, physicality, speed, offensive talent, etc so I can see guys from that group handling matching against the other teams top line, playing on the pp, killing penalties etc. but on the right side they are all very similar players in terms of size and style. so even if they all pan out and become very good dmen who from the group is going to be the match up guy? who's gonna kill penalties? maybe those guys will be able to handle those roles, but trouba adds a dimension to the blueline that the current RHD crop doesn't have

 

[Lays]

Skinner is used as a winger in Buffalo right? I see hes listed as a center but if utilized as a winger could give a good idea of what Kreider could possibly get. More of the goals side of things a bit more in points. Also will be 2 years younger then Kreider when his new deal starts (27 VS 29).

Skinner has never played C in the NHL

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Skinner has never played C in the NHL

Hockey reference for some reason has him listed as a center. Other sites have him as a winger.

 

[thethirdhockeyman91]

Shatty@50% to the Islanders for Komarov and Ho-sang....

Yuck

 

[JCProdigy]

Booby Mac says Buffalo is closing in on signing Jeff Skinner to an 8 year, $72 million contract.

Yowie Wowie.

Is right....