Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLII

[FIRE DRURY]

Lavoie would be a nice pickup for us with Winnipegs pick. Can play center or wing. Been watching him a lot this year and he has continued to get better all year.

Not a fan of Lavoie at all.

We're gonna go after Panarin hard. Of course there's lots of talk of him going to Florida with coach Q, but the allure of NYC is nothing to scoff at. Many have expressed that signing Panarin would be a "huge mistake", that it would cut the rebuild short and prevent this franchise from being able to select multiple top 5 picks. I disagree with this on so many levels.

First being, there is so much parity in the league these days that one player is NOT the difference from a bottom feeder to being a bubble team. Before the season started you wouldn't have guessed that LA and NJ would be bottom of the barrel teams. They ended up there due to the injury bug and/or some pretty **** years from their star players.

The other method of "tanking for the best pick possible" has instilled a culture of losing and reeks of mismanagement for the likes of Buffalo and Edmonton. Those franchises have dug themselves in such a hole that they are still wondering if they have hit rock bottom yet. Ironically, these teams have some of the most talented young players in the entire league, but I'm supposed to believe that Panarin will stop the Rangers from suffering the same fate?

Which leads me to my next point. You need to surround your youth with talented veterans so they aren't thrown to the wolves and can develop at healthy pace. Part of the reason why Edmonton and Buffalo has floundered with so many #1 picks is they expected these kids to come in and crush the league without too many difficulties. Expecting players like Kakko, Kravtsov, Fox, Chytil, Andersson, Howden etc to step right in and play big minutes will stunt their growth big time. Sure they are definitely talented kids, but adjusting to the NA/NHL game will still cause unforseen difficulties that these kids will need to tackle without also being wholly depended on for the teams success at the same time.

The amount of talented vets the team has lost over the past half season, and will continue to lose will not be entirely offset by just signing Panarin. But establishing a veteran foundation for the team to build around will be vital to the success of rebuild and the franchise going forward.

We have Vets, so I completely disagree that we need Panarin for his leadership.

If 1 player won't be the difference maker between being a bubble team/bottom feeder, then you don't sign him? You pay that kind of contract to someone who is a difference maker.

Chytil has had a season and a 1/2 here. Howden won't see big minutes. K+K might very well start in Hartford. Fox can be sheltered since we have options on Defense.

Zbad, Kreider, Buch, Fast, Strome, Names. Even if you remove Kreider from that group we're not a team composed of pubescent teenagers. Staal, Shatty, Smith, Skjei. Lunqvist.

This team has vets.

 

[Leetch3]

get dallas' 2020 pick...trade kreider for another 2020 pick from a bubble team...and then next year we'll have 3 1st and can root for the triple tank. 3 times the chance to complain about loser points. i'm ready...

 

[Edge]

I would prefer Dallas's 1st next year over this year, assuming it happens.

There's a chance its a much better pick and allows us to spread out the ELCs a bit.

We can spend all next season hoping they fall apart and we end up with two lottery picks.

Break with tradition and come away with Lafreniere and Barron.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

get dallas' 2020 pick...trade kreider for another 2020 pick from a bubble team...and then next year we'll have 3 1st and can root for the triple tank. 3 times the chance to complain about loser points. i'm ready...

Not gonna lie, if we trade Kreider, part of me wants it to be for a 2020 1st round pick.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

We can spend all next season hoping they fall apart and we end up with two lottery picks.

Break with tradition and come away with Lafreniere and Barron.

God damn do I love Justin Barron

 

[Barnaby]

I am listening to the SportsNet Hockey Centreal Radio Show on the NHL Network. Nick Kypreos said it's his understanding that Zuccarello will re-sign with the Stars. Jeff Marek. John Shannon. Brian Burke. Kyper is on the phone discussing the Stars series. Kyper said Zuccarello was a great pick up and he will be staying in Dallas so the Rangers will get one first rounder out of the trade.

I could see the Islanders overpay him to repair offensive depth while screwing the Rangers

 

[apoptygma]

Our 3 internal candidates for a future 2. line center just finished their d+2 or d+3 seasons. While looking trough tons of decent centers on eliteprospects they usually broke the 0,5 ppg treshold between their d+4 and d+6 season. Just dont feel viable to throw a ton of assets into trading up to get a prospect that we hope will become a 2. line center. 1 year ago we all penciled in Chytil in as out future 1C. Even with a normal progress a Zegras or Newhook might have a similar d+2 season like Andersson or Chytil. Just a normal seanon for a young player making normal progress. Im sure if Andersson/Chytil/Howden was toying with NCAA/SHL/etc. at this point there would be no panic regarding the future. Most of their compareables had in their d+2 seasons no or very little NHL experience. There arent many non-top3 picks making huge waves in NHL until their d+4 season.

 

[Tawnos]

Our 3 internal candidates for a future 2. line center just finished their d+2 or d+3 seasons. While looking trough tons of decent centers on eliteprospects they usually broke the 0,5 ppg treshold between their d+4 and d+6 season. Just dont feel viable to throw a ton of assets into trading up to get a prospect that we hope will become a 2. line center. 1 year ago we all penciled in Chytil in as out future 1C. Even with a normal progress a Zegras or Newhook might have a similar d+2 season like Andersson or Chytil. Just a normal seanon for a young player making normal progress. Im sure if Andersson/Chytil/Howden was toying with NCAA/SHL/etc. at this point there would be no panic regarding the future. Most of their compareables had in their d+2 seasons no or very little NHL experience. There arent many non-top3 picks making huge waves in NHL until their d+4 season.

While I do think the abandonment of having one of those three guys as a potential 2C is way premature, I also understand why people might want to shore up the position organizationally. It's not like they're a lock at this point.

What's more likely: finding a 1C or 2C out of Chytil/Andersson/Howden or out of Chytil/Andersson/Howden/ZegrasNewhook?

 

[Barnaby]

Newport Sports represents Zuccarello. They are based in Mississauga, Ontario which is a suburb of Toronto. Kyper lives and works out of the same area.

Maybe Newport is his source. They would know.

Why would Newport leak that info? It only weakens Zuccs negotiating power.

 

[Cag29]

We can spend all next season hoping they fall apart and we end up with two lottery picks.

Break with tradition and come away with Lafreniere and Barron.

Or Lucas Raymond.

 

[mas0764]

Gonna be a great off season for the Rangers regardless of Dallas not advancing to the WCF. Them resigning Zucc would be the cherry on top.

Kreider will be moved at the draft or after July 1 with an extension. Either way, I expect at least a 1st round pick out of a Kreider trade, and even more assets if he is extended & traded.

Gorton also has 4 more expiring assets he can use as ammo for more picks, prospects, or draft capital. Expect him to shop those aggressively.

We're gonna go after Panarin hard. Of course there's lots of talk of him going to Florida with coach Q, but the allure of NYC is nothing to scoff at. Many have expressed that signing Panarin would be a "huge mistake", that it would cut the rebuild short and prevent this franchise from being able to select multiple top 5 picks. I disagree with this on so many levels.

First being, there is so much parity in the league these days that one player is NOT the difference from a bottom feeder to being a bubble team. Before the season started you wouldn't have guessed that LA and NJ would be bottom of the barrel teams. They ended up there due to the injury bug and/or some pretty **** years from their star players.

The other method of "tanking for the best pick possible" has instilled a culture of losing and reeks of mismanagement for the likes of Buffalo and Edmonton. Those franchises have dug themselves in such a hole that they are still wondering if they have hit rock bottom yet. Ironically, these teams have some of the most talented young players in the entire league, but I'm supposed to believe that Panarin will stop the Rangers from suffering the same fate?

Which leads me to my next point. You need to surround your youth with talented veterans so they aren't thrown to the wolves and can develop at healthy pace. Part of the reason why Edmonton and Buffalo has floundered with so many #1 picks is they expected these kids to come in and crush the league without too many difficulties. Expecting players like Kakko, Kravtsov, Fox, Chytil, Andersson, Howden etc to step right in and play big minutes will stunt their growth big time. Sure they are definitely talented kids, but adjusting to the NA/NHL game will still cause unforseen difficulties that these kids will need to tackle without also being wholly depended on for the teams success at the same time.

The amount of talented vets the team has lost over the past half season, and will continue to lose will not be entirely offset by just signing Panarin. But establishing a veteran foundation for the team to build around will be vital to the success of rebuild and the franchise going forward.

Home run post.

 

[True Blue]

This is my argument for signing Panarin.

I definitely think Kreider will be moved, regardless if he signs a new contract or not. Unless, they don't end up getting Panarin.

That is an argument in keeping Krieder. If Kreider resigns, he is not going anywhere. People have got to let go of this Panarin thing. That is not what rebuilding teams do. And aside form Brooks and some clamoring fans, there is NOTHING to indicate ANYTHING that comes close to Gorton wanting to bring on such a large contract at this point.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Home run post.

I liked it until it became Pro-Panarin.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

That is an argument in keeping Krieder. If Kreider resigns, he is not going anywhere. People have got to let go of this Panarin thing. That is not what rebuilding teams do. And aside form Brooks and some clamoring fans, there is NOTHING to indicate ANYTHING that comes close to Gorton wanting to bring on such a large contract at this point.

With that argument, Kreider isn't here long-term if he's going to want a big contract.

Yes, they are rebuilding, but it doesn't mean being devoid of talent either.

 

[DanielBrassard]

That is an argument in keeping Krieder. If Kreider resigns, he is not going anywhere. People have got to let go of this Panarin thing. That is not what rebuilding teams do. And aside form Brooks and some clamoring fans, there is NOTHING to indicate ANYTHING that comes close to Gorton wanting to bring on such a large contract at this point.

And Carpiniello, and Friedman, and McKenzie and on and on.

 

[apoptygma]

While I do think the abandonment of having one of those three guys as a potential 2C is way premature, I also understand why people might want to shore up the position organizationally. It's not like they're a lock at this point.

What's more likely: finding a 1C or 2C out of Chytil/Andersson/Howden or out of Chytil/Andersson/Howden/ZegrasNewhook?

The latter clearly. But compared to Chytil/Howden/Andersson/19.+the price needed to trade up?
Say we got 19. and Newhook is there at 12? The price for trading up is atleast or 2 late 2.s.
Is the chance for Zegras/Newhook to reach the plateu of a 2. line C so much higher then Suzuki/Nikolayev/Tomasino/Beecher/McMichael/Lavoie/Mastrosimone?
It is true that 2. rounders have a pretty low chance to amount anything, but the chance for a middle 1. rounder isnt 100% either.
I just believe that when we pass the first few picks our odds increase more with added tickets to the lottery then putting everything on one lucky number.
The guys we draft are just 17/18 year old, and there is so much more development for them until they becomes the player they can be.

 

[True Blue]

With that argument, Kreider isn't here long-term if he's going to want a big contract.

No, Krieder is a life long Rangers. He is also a leader and has lots of respect in that room. There is a difference between that and a UFA

Yes, they are rebuilding, but it doesn't mean being devoid of talent either.

They are not devoid of talent. Most of their talent needs to be cultivated and grown. What you are truly stating is that they are devoid of instant gratification superstar talent. There is a difference.

By your logic, why not go all in on Karlsson as well? And bring back Hayes and Zucc while we're at it? Let's not be devoid of talent!

Don't want to go down the road and regurgitate the reasons why Panarin is not coming here, but again, rebuilding teams do not go out and sign UFAs to 7 years/$77m contracts with NTC/NMC while they are only 1.25 years into the rebuild. Just does not happen.

 

[True Blue]

And Carpiniello, and Friedman, and McKenzie and on and on.

Have you seen ANY indication that Gorton is looking to abandon rebuilding and start to splurge on UFAs?

 

[Edge]

And Carpiniello, and Friedman, and McKenzie and on and on.

Keeping in mind that this is going to be the second summer of pundits speculating about what Gorton will do, with Gorton himself having actually indicated nothing of the sort.

 

[mas0764]

Not gonna lie, if we trade Kreider, part of me wants it to be for a 2020 1st round pick.

Depends.

I'd like to get up from 19/20 for one more impact player in this draft. Can I do it without moving Kreider?

 

[DanielBrassard]

Have you seen ANY indication that Gorton is looking to abandon rebuilding and start to splurge on UFAs?

One could interpret his comments about accelerating the rebuild as that. How many GM's spell out their plans for the offseason anyway to the public? Plus my post was moreso about your minimizing the amount of people who have mentioned Panarin and UFA in general and how the Rangers will be involved, it wasn't just Brooks reporting on it but a number of credible insiders. Whether it comes to fruition or not remains to be seen.

 

[aufheben]

Center is an important position, but at the end of the day, the bottom line is having better players than the other team. Who were Chicago’s #2C’s? Bolland, Handzus, Richards? Then defensive centers like Madden and Vertseeg?

Not a big deal when your wingers are Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Saad. This continued with Anisimov centering Kane.

It’s like what people say about the draft: take he BPA, and go from there.

Keeping in mind that this is going to be the second summer of pundits speculating about what Gorton will do, with Gorton himself having actually indicated nothing of the sort.

While true, it would not be unprecedented. The Bruins finished 2005-06 with a 29-37-16 record, Gorton signed Chara and Savard that summer. They had another losing record the following season, but a couple years later... 53-19-10; another couple years... well...

Maybe he surprises us all and goes after Duchene. Brock Nelson and Anders Lee are UFA’s too. The Rangers have a ton of money coming off the books after this upcoming season.

 

[LORDE]

One could interpret his comments about accelerating the rebuild as that. How many GM's spell out their plans for the offseason anyway to the public? Plus my post was moreso about your minimizing the amount of people who have mentioned Panarin and UFA in general and how the Rangers will be involved, it wasn't just Brooks reporting on it but a number of credible insiders. Whether it comes to fruition or not remains to be seen.

OR... and hear me out on this...

He was referring to acquiring past picks who are further along in their development but who aren't in the NHL. For example a Fox type of acquisition. One who fits the timeline of the rebuild, but who slots in well after having simmered in the NCAA a bit longer.

Not splurging for expensive UFAs when we don't know what we have yet. Once we have a good idea then he may go shopping.

 

[Edge]

While true, it would not be unprecedented. The Bruins finished 2005-06 with a 29-37-16 record, Gorton signed Chara and Savard that summer.

And he very well could.

But, I think that's somewhat separate from where we are now. There's a lot of speculation as to what people "think" Gorton will do (or in some cases what they want him to do). But there's really nothing pointing back to Gorton's approach to indicate it's really a thing.

Even now, the JD thing is something you hear about.

The wanting to move up in the draft chatter is something you hear about.

The Panarin thing seems to be more of a product of pundits than behind the scenes chatter that's out there. And for the people who really want Panarin, I think it kind of takes on a life of its own.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

And he very well could.

But, I think that's somewhat separate from where we are now. There's a lot of speculation as to what people "think" Gorton will do (or in some cases what they want him to do). But there's really nothing pointing back to Gorton's approach to indicate it's really a thing.

Even now, the JD thing is something you hear about.

The wanting to move up in the draft chatter is something you hear about.

The Panarin thing seems to be more of a product of pundits than behind the scenes chatter that's out there. And for the people who really want Panarin, I think it kind of takes on a life of its own.

It would be tampering if Gorton brought his name up before he's officially an UFA.