Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLII Time for Curtis Lazar?

[bobbop]

The mid-career rise of Miller and Strome are two excellent examples of chemistry. Sometimes it's a case of playing with the right guy(s) to bring out your talent. Ratelle and Gilbert come to mind as a great example.

That's why teams will always take a chance on a player with talent.

 

[SA16]

The mid-career rise of Miller and Strome are two excellent examples of chemistry. Sometimes it's a case of playing with the right guy(s) to bring out your talent. Ratelle and Gilbert come to mind as a great example.

That's why teams will always take a chance on a player with talent.

It's not chemistry. It's called playing with superstars.

 

[romba]

Yep. The path is important. He may have developed, but it took those two trades to wake his ass up.
Can't assume JT Miller is the same player he is now we're he still with the Rangers.

Same with Mika. LOlottawa is a HF meme but he himself said he didn’t train as hard as he should have in his summers with Ottawa. He was a highly touted center prospect with all the tools but he took it for granted and focused too much on extra curriculars instead of training. He progressed ‘ok’ his first few seasons with Ottawa but you can see the difference in him after the trade. It woke him up to the fact that nothing is guaranteed in this league and he put the effort in training to match his god given talent.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Same with Mika. LOlottawa is a HF meme but he himself said he didn’t train as hard as he should have in his summers with Ottawa. He was a highly touted center prospect with all the tools but he took it for granted and focused too much on extra curriculars instead of training. He progressed ‘ok’ his first few seasons with Ottawa but you can see the difference in him after the trade. It woke him up to the fact that nothing is guaranteed in this league and he put the effort in training to match his god given talent.

Yup for as much as everyone saying it's harder to play in NY and rips it as a region with too many distractions and nonsense (I do all the time) some players will be more motivated playing in larger markets and having a bigger role. Brassard was like that. Mika. Even going back a decade ago Paul Mara got his career on track for a few seasons here.

 

[Fitzy]

It's not chemistry. It's called playing with superstars.

There are a fair number of players who wouldn't have contributed the way Miller and Strome did under similar circumstances, however.

Christensen was force fed tons of even strength minutes with Marian Gaborik, and it didn't do much for his production.

The Caps didn't have a center who excelled with OV until Backstrom made the NHL.

Additionally, doesn't someone here have the fancy stats showing what players assist on other's goals? Doesn't Strome have quite a bit of solid production without Panarin the past two seasons?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

It's not chemistry. It's called playing with superstars.

Partly, yes. But it's not a guarantee. If it was, GMs would just sign AHL caliber players for league minimum to play with their superstars

 

[Ola]

Same with Mika. LOlottawa is a HF meme but he himself said he didn’t train as hard as he should have in his summers with Ottawa. He was a highly touted center prospect with all the tools but he took it for granted and focused too much on extra curriculars instead of training. He progressed ‘ok’ his first few seasons with Ottawa but you can see the difference in him after the trade. It woke him up to the fact that nothing is guaranteed in this league and he put the effort in training to match his god given talent.

Yup, to some extent, I think he was due a bit of a breakout. But he quickly figured out that he wouldn’t be long in NY if he didn’t perform and matched the commitment of those around him.

 

[SA16]

There are a fair number of players who wouldn't have contributed the way Miller and Strome did under similar circumstances, however.

Christensen was force fed tons of even strength minutes with Marian Gaborik, and it didn't do much for his production.

The Caps didn't have a center who excelled with OV until Backstrom made the NHL.

Additionally, doesn't someone here have the fancy stats showing what players assist on other's goals? Doesn't Strome have quite a bit of solid production without Panarin the past two seasons?

Didn't Ovechkin play with Zubrus his first two years who had 57 points in 71 games and 52 points in 60 games? Christensen also had a great production with Gaborik. 2.12 points/60 over 3 years in about 600 mins. He just didn't do anything with anyone else. Strome's produciton the last two years without Panarin are actually terrible -26 points in ~1260 mins.

Partly, yes. But it's not a guarantee. If it was, GMs would just sign AHL caliber players for league minimum to play with their superstars

There is obviously a difference in competent NHL players being seriously elevated by elite players and players who aren't even good enough to play in the NHL in the first place. Playing someone like Tanner Glass or Cody McLeod with Panarin would of course not work. Playing someone with some ability like Strome or Fast can.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

TLDR;; Panarin is an other-worldly NHL superstar.

Feels good to say.

 

[egelband]

Yup for as much as everyone saying it's harder to play in NY and rips it as a region with too many distractions and nonsense (I do all the time) some players will be more motivated playing in larger markets and having a bigger role. Brassard was like that. Mika. Even going back a decade ago Paul Mara got his career on track for a few seasons here.

I totally agree. It's impossible to make blanket statements. Even a place like Edmonton gets a bad rap. I would think many players would be very happy in a place like that. Not everyone for sure, but probably more than we think.

 

[egelband]

TLDR;; Panarin is an other-worldly NHL superstar.

Feels good to say.

Also nice that he chose The Rangers and will presumably end up being most associated with the Rangers.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

We need to get this thread back on the rails.

Anyone think the Rangers might sign Morgan Barron and bring him to wherever as part of their playoff roster? (official hint; I do)

I think the only reason it hasn’t happened yet has way more to do with Morgan and his maybe wanting to get one more crack at a National Championship than it does with the Rangers...

 

[Ola]

Great stuff in the debate on Strome and the importance of linemates!

I always want to look at these things from a very structured point of view. And this viewpoint really affects my opinions on a very wide range of questions.

How does the world work?
(a) A unit of 5 on the ice must be able to accomplish certain things to be successful.

(b) What those things are depends on how the unit plays.

Right? If we sat down a handful of coaches in a room I am sure they fairly quickly could map out which styles a unit can play, say 5-7 maybe, and what each of those styles must have to be successful -- with an intervall catching like 90% of reality.

(Note that we to simplify things will disregard how the play of a unit isn't constant, but of course equally will be impact on whatever unit they face, but I don't think it changes the big picture of this viewpoint in this perspective.)

How does a super special player like Panarin fits into this equation?
A unit with a super special player like Panarin, will check a lot of boxes in this perspective almost per default. That is why players like him should be valued so high. Erik Karlsson, Pat Kane and the likes, centers like McD, Crosby and co.

A player like this gives you a shot at carrying players that are weak in many areas but very strong in others. Strome is a player like that.

For this reason, I am also very skeptical to invest in players that does not help checking the boxes that is necessary to get a unit up ice.

 

[eco's bones]

It's not chemistry. It's called playing with superstars.

There's still plenty of history for that. Vic Hadfield with Gilbert and Ratelle. Clark Gillies with Trottier and Bossy. John LeClair gets to play with Eric Lindros. Kevin Stevens with Mario Lemieux. Graves with Messier. Nylander with Jagr. Jake Guentzel and Bryan Rust with Crosby and Malkin respectively and Tom Wilson on a line with Ovechkin.

I wouldn't run down Miller for getting a chance with Pettersson or Strome with Panarin. Both of them have gotten an opportunity and run with it.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

All this debate on Strome and both him and Panarin had career years, maybe Panarin wants to play with him, anyone think of that?

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

I totally agree. It's impossible to make blanket statements. Even a place like Edmonton gets a bad rap. I would think many players would be very happy in a place like that. Not everyone for sure, but probably more than we think.

Anson Carter loved his time in Edmonton from interviews that I read. He had two of his three most productive seasons there.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

The mid-career rise of Miller and Strome are two excellent examples of chemistry. Sometimes it's a case of playing with the right guy(s) to bring out your talent. Ratelle and Gilbert come to mind as a great example.

That's why teams will always take a chance on a player with talent.

A lot of times more rugged players find the right chemistry with highly skilled guys. They just stay out of the way and go to where they're supposed to be on the ice. Mikael Renberg. Guy was a different player with the LOD. Bates Battaglia in Carolina. Chris Simon hulking his way to the front of the net and being gifted the wizardry of Adam Oates passing. We even saw it a little here with Marcel Hossa. He went from being barely an NHL player to somewhat functional just cleaning corners for Nylander-Jagr when called to.

 

[Avery16]

All this debate on Strome and both him and Panarin had career years, maybe Panarin wants to play with him, anyone think of that?

No… no I have not thought of that.

 

[Edge]

There's still plenty of history for that. Vic Hadfield with Gilbert and Ratelle. Clark Gillies with Trottier and Bossy. John LeClair gets to play with Eric Lindros. Kevin Stevens with Mario Lemieux. Graves with Messier. Nylander with Jagr. Jake Guentzel and Bryan Rust with Crosby and Malkin respectively and Tom Wilson on a line with Ovechkin.

I wouldn't run down Miller for getting a chance with Pettersson or Strome with Panarin. Both of them have gotten an opportunity and run with it.

I think what’s interesting is that when it happens with someone we traded, we get upset at management. But when it happens with someone we acquire, we almost hold it against the player.

The stories of Miller and Strome really aren’t all that different. Former first round picks from the 2011 draft; guys who showed flashes of their talent earlier in their career before falling out of favor with two teams and having career years with their third team; guys who are flawed enough not to be drivers on their own but talented enough to take advantage of playing with an elite linemate; both have a tendency to do something downright braindead on the ice, especially when they try to be a line driver; etc.

Basically, Ryan Strome occupies the conversation space that would’ve been reserved for JT Miller if he was still on the Rangers.

 

[Fitzy]

Also nice that he chose The Rangers and will presumably end up being most associated with the Rangers.

If he stays healthy and isn't traded he will possibly end up top 5 in career points with the Rangers. More if he extends.

 

[eco's bones]

I think what’s interesting is that when it happens with someone we traded, we get upset at management. But when it happens with someone we acquire, we almost hold it against the player.

The stories of Miller and Strome really aren’t all that different. Former first round picks from the 2011 draft; guys who showed flashes of their talent earlier in their career before falling out of favor with two teams and having career years with their third team; guys who are flawed enough not to be drivers on their own but talented enough to take advantage of playing with an elite linemate; both have a tendency to do something downright braindead on the ice, especially when they try to be a line driver; etc.

Basically, Ryan Strome occupies the conversation space that would’ve been reserved for JT Miller if he was still on the Rangers.

I never really got the Miller hate from a lot of our fanbase. He never really took that next step leap with us but he was always a pretty good player though prone at times to making some brain dead plays. He also was a bit of a playoff underachiever but it's not like he was the only one. Hayes wasn't great and neither was Nash. I didn't like expanding the McDonagh trade with him for Namestnikov and still think that was dumb. But saying that if he hadn't moved he might be pretty much the same 45/50 point guy.

Sometimes that change of scenery can make all the difference in a player's career. John LeClair was like a 40 point a season guy until he went to the Flyers and after Philly put him with Lindros he became a perennial all star and until the concussions started coming Lindros's way that line was pretty much unstoppable. Crosby and Malkin have been regularly turning their linemates into bigger time players--whether Kunitz, Dupuis, Neal, Hornqvist, Guentzel or Rust.

 

[Ola]

All this debate on Strome and both him and Panarin had career years, maybe Panarin wants to play with him, anyone think of that?

Yeah for sure, but I don't think the real issue is whether Strome could center a top 3 line with Panarin for us in NY. It is that we will have cap causalities here in NY, and if we keep Strome we will lose someone else.

Ziba got 2 years left than he is a UFA. We don't have a single good long-term contract on the books. In the Cap era NHL, the hard part is not to get hold of talent, its about having good contracts.

 

[Leetch3]

I totally agree. It's impossible to make blanket statements. Even a place like Edmonton gets a bad rap. I would think many players would be very happy in a place like that. Not everyone for sure, but probably more than we think.

i'm sure that winters in edmonton aren't the greatest but that is also an excuse for why they can't get players. the bigger issue is that the team has sucked for 30 years more or less and despite getting countless top picks they continue to stink...why would players want to live there and also miss the playoffs? if the oilers were good I think more players would be open to it as an option.

 

[Fitzy]

All this debate on Strome and both him and Panarin had career years, maybe Panarin wants to play with him, anyone think of that?

The priority for me is getting a sniper on the right wing of that line, rather than upgrading Strome.

Even a Prucha/Cheechoo/Moulson type that really only know how to score could pot 40 goals on that line.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Hes using being close to EdJovo as motivation.

The poster or the player?