Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLI

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

I think the Sharks and the Leafs had much stronger groups than we do when they made their moves for Karlsson and Tavares. We have Zibanejad who has one season of top level play. Kakko hasn't touched NHL ice yet but you can reasonably expect top level play out of him, probably not in the next couple years. Lundqvist might not even be league average next year.

Everyone else is a complimentary player (Skjei, Buchnevich, resigned Kreider) or an unproven prospect (Chytil, Kravtsov, Miller, Shesty, Andersson, Fox, Howden, Lundkvist etc) that, hate to say it, isn't better than Ryan Strome or Kevin Shattenkirk were at their age.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The Rangers have made it clear they are not executing a classic tank. What some of you are advocating is exactly that. The burn the furniture strategy is fine on paper only if you can guarantee the success and health of every draft choice. There are way too many examples of teams in the NHL trying it and failing badly.

I would much prefer that the Rangers sign the one premium UFA available this summer. Panarin will make the team exciting and fun to watch. I don’t think he will singlehandidly make the Rangers a playoff team but I’ll gladly take that chance. They can still make some other moves to open up roster spots and collect a few additional assets. And I’ll continue to listen on Kreider.

Just remember the vast number of paying customers don’t post on here. And they want to see the Rangers be successfula sooner rather than later.

But they haven't "burned the furniture."

They've stripped it down iteratively. GMJG has been really, really careful about not doing things the way that you think people are calling for (too careful IYAM, but hey, we lucked out this year so perhaps he was just careful enough.)

There are other ways to add players other than free agency. If you look at the teams that remain, they've almost all stayed away from high priced UFA's completely (All except Dallas.)

They have however, all acquired a key piece (or pieces, in the case of San Jose) via trade. We have the capital to do that when the time comes, which I imagine will be this summer.

 

[Avery16]

One of the key points about Panarin that many are overlooking is his ability to provide leadership to Kravtsov, Sherstykin and Buchnevich (and at some point, Rykov) There’s a lot of value right there.

this seems more like a hope than anything we can objectively rely on. Has anyone reported on Panarin's locker room presence? Are we just going on age here? He doesn't have an A with Columbus. Buchnevich probably doesn't need much leadership at this point and would be likely as effective an example to Kravstov as would Panarin, if not more given his experience with the team, city and coach. Hank and Allaire will be fine with Igor. Panarin isn't doing anything there. Or do you just mean that he speaks Russian? 10 mill/7 years is a steep price for a translator. Lets just get some Babelfish discs.

 

[bobbop]

this seems more like a hope than anything we can objectively rely on. Has anyone reported on Panarin's locker room presence? Are we just going on age here? He doesn't have an A with Columbus. Buchnevich probably doesn't need much leadership at this point and would be likely as effective an example to Kravstov as would Panarin, if not more given his experience with the team, city and coach. Hank and Allaire will be fine with Igor. Panarin isn't doing anything there. Or do you just mean that he speaks Russian? 10 mill/7 years is a steep price for a translator. Lets just get some Babelfish discs.

Yes I have extensively. He’s a locker room leader and great team player. Same as in Chicago. If you don’t think Buchnevich could benefit from some leadership, you are not even following this team closely.

 

[Avery16]

Yes I have extensively. He’s a locker room leader and great team player. Same as in Chicago. If you don’t think Buchnevich could benefit from some leadership, you are not even following this team closely.

Saying someone could benefit from leadership right now isn't sufficient to committing to another person for seven years in the hope that he could be that leader. If he's a great leader, why doesn't he have an official leadership role? He was a locker room leader his rookie and sophomore years in Chicago? I haven't read that.

 

[Doctyl]

Saying someone could benefit from leadership right now isn't sufficient to committing to another person for seven years in the hope that he could be that leader.

Panarin isnt some bum we'd be signing for his locker room presence though. We're talking about an 80-90 point player here. Thats a sufficient reason to commit.

 

[bobbop]

Saying someone could benefit from leadership right now isn't sufficient to committing to another person for seven years in the hope that he could be that leader. If he's a great leader, why doesn't he have an official leadership role? He was a locker room leader his rookie and sophomore years in Chicago? I haven't read that.

Yeah and he’s a pretty good player too.

 

[Bluto]

I swear some of you are masochists. We had years of going out and signing the biggest free agent there was; Redden, Gomez, Drury, Richards, etc. And what good did that do us? Nothing. Now that we're finally doing it the right way and have the best set of prospects we've EVER had, you want to just revert back to the old ways because SHINY NEW TOY!!! If we wanna trade Kreider for a first and sign Panarin that'd be fine since they're both gonna be looking for long term deals with high pay. But we'll enter another decade of mediocracy if we're just going out and signing Panarin and Duchene because we can. Be patient, develop our own stars, the payoff will be great.

Everyone knew Redden was a horrible signing the second it happened. He had been declining for 3 years and Sather had a knee jerk reaction to missing on Chara.
Gomez and Drury were nowhere near the caliber of player Panarin is at any point in their careers and Drury was actually quite serviceable until he got hurt. Gomez was a terrible signing but he got us McD somehow..
Richards was our bonafide 1C and played a major role in our cup runs. Richards was a good signing. We don't make the SCF or the ECF without Richards those years.
Panarin and/or Duchene makes us better in both the short and long term.

 

[Ghost of jas]

@GeorgeKaplan @jas

Really @Everybody

Eh...he pumps the tires on Skjei and Pionk, and mentions Vesey and Fast, but leaves out Howden, Hajek and DeAngelo.

 

[Doctyl]

Really dont want anything to do with Duchene. That signing has mistake written all over it.

Panarin or nothing for me this offseason.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Panarin isnt some bum we'd be signing for his locker room presence though. We're talking about an 80-90 point player here. Thats a sufficient reason to commit.

Is he an 80-90 point player on this team? We have seen countless examples of that not being the case when a player of Panarin’s ilk puts on a Rangers’ uniform. And, you can claim this player is different until they prove they aren’t. Despite the accelerated pace of this rebuild, Panarin remains a costly luxury for a team not set up to make that kind of commitment when there is still so much that needs to fall into place.

 

[Ola]

He's just being dramatic. Obviously no one knows Panarin will decline after 30, but history isn't on his side. Most players show a clear decline once they hit 30. I mean, we should know considering we've watched it happen right around that age for a number of our players in recent years.

The guy is obviously not a good gambler, because he has no understanding of odds/likelihood, etc.

For forwards it’s actually 32, according to a research TSN did. Forwards produce within 90% of their prime numbers up to 32 on average.

But I do think it’s more risky if you have someone that changes teams.

 

[Doctyl]

Is he an 80-90 point player on this team? We have seen countless examples of that not being the case when a player of Panarin’s ilk puts on a Rangers’ uniform. And, you can claim this player is different until they prove they aren’t. Despite the accelerated pace of this rebuild, Panarin remains a costly luxury for a team not set up to make that kind of commitment when there is still so much that needs to fall into place.

Everyone said that about him when he left Kane's wing to go to CBJ. Put him with Zib and Buch or on Kravstov/Kakko other wing and I think he will be more than fine.

Gaborik and Nash were excellent Rangers. Richards was the last miss that was supposed to be "different from all those others" and he was coming with a concussion history when we signed him. Panarin could play the role Hossa did on those Hawks teams.

 

[Richard Banger]

Is he an 80-90 point player on this team? We have seen countless examples of that not being the case when a player of Panarin’s ilk puts on a Rangers’ uniform. And, you can claim this player is different until they prove they aren’t. Despite the accelerated pace of this rebuild, Panarin remains a costly luxury for a team not set up to make that kind of commitment when there is still so much that needs to fall into place.

Put him on Zbads line and he'll put up 80 pts.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Put him on Zbads line and he'll put up 80 pts.

He'd probably put up more, but signing him and putting him with Zibanejad kind of defeats the purpose of signing him.

We'd be a one line team with a ton of youth behind them. Thats not how you build a team that is going to win much of anything.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Everyone said that about him when he left Kane's wing to go to CBJ. Put him with Zib and Buch or on Kravstov/Kakko other wing and I think he will be more than fine.

Gaborik and Nash were excellent Rangers. Richards was the last miss that was supposed to be "different from all those others" and he was coming with a concussion history when we signed him. Panarin could play the role Hossa did on those Hawks teams.

He could, but those Hawks teams already had Kane and Towes....


And Keith, and Seabrook, and Byflugien, etc.

In a perfect world, Kakko fills one of those roles. Now where are you going to find the rest of those pieces?

 

[Doctyl]

He could, but those Hawks teams already had Kane and Towes....


And Keith, and Seabrook, and Byflugien, etc.

In a perfect world, Kakko fills one of those roles. Now where are you going to find the rest of those pieces?

Kakko, Kravtsov, Zib

Hopefully the young D step up with Miller and Fox leading the way.

Buff was a 30 point 3rd line winger on those teams. They got lucky that he went off in those playoffs. That could be anyone.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Kakko, Kravtsov, Zib

Hopefully the young D step up with Miller and Fox leading the way.

Buff was a 30 point 3rd line winger on those teams. They got lucky that he went off in those playoffs. That could be anyone.

Kakko has that potential for sure.

Zibanejad... I want to see him replicate his season

Kravstov may be really good, but its probably going to take him some time.

Keith is probably the 2nd or 3rd best D if this generation, and it took him a while to become what he is (I believe his age 26 season, which was the year they won the cup.)

Point is, they waited. They also signed Hossa after a run to the WCF. We finished 6th from the bottom.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Really dont want anything to do with Duchene. That signing has mistake written all over it.

Panarin or nothing for me this offseason.

Agreed

 

[eco's bones]

Ridiculous to read that Panarin is some 'shiny new toy'. He's been in the NHL 4 years now and he's been consistently excellent from the beginning. So to break down the definition--yes he shines--but no he's not really new nor would I describe him as a toy because he's not some kind of luxury item unless that's how you would go about describing your best forward which he would automatically become the moment he signed with us.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

We have Strome as our 2C.. And Skjei + ADA as our top pair next season.

Throwing 12-13% of our cap space for a winger seems like a real logical plan.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

We have Strome as our 2C.. And Skjei + ADA as our top pair next season.

Throwing 12-13% of our cap space for a winger seems like a real logical plan.

Better then entertaining resigning Kreider.

Been advocating this for last couple of months. Trade Krieder for 12-14 pick. I have a strong feeling a couple D in addition to Byram jump into the top 10 along with Caufield. One of Zegras/Newhook will be there. Use the Jets pick and (hopefully) pick 28. Sign Panarin.

Out Kreider. In Kakko, Zegras, Panarin plus whoever they pick with the Jets and Dallas picks.

 

[DutchShamrock]

There isn't a whole lot of precedent for winning with big UFAs as the early core foundation. That doesn't mean it is impossible, just a reason to be skeptical. Then take in this team's horrendous and extensive history of bombing with free agents. The failure to deliver in the pre cap era when you weren't penalized by bad financial decisions. Failures aplenty in the post cap era with buyouts and trips to Hartford. "Jump start the process with this can't miss free agent. Trust me." For decades. This one will be different though.

Remove the age stuff, tank timeline, point projection. This is all about odds and percentages. But remove those arguments that inform the gambling decisions. We are talking about adding the "missing piece" to the one position we actually have a grasp of as far as organizational depth. We have legit top 6 wings. We need a top 6 center. The defense needs an overhaul before we even understand how these defensive prospects shake out.

Cup winners added the UFA late in the build. Losers tried to create short cuts. Fine, no free agent like Panarin will ever be available ever, ever again. Great, that's not how you build winners. We don't need the next Panarin. Fill your need when you are on the verge. But build the team organically.

 

[Kravtsov420]

We have Strome as our 2C.. And Skjei + ADA as our top pair next season.

Throwing 12-13% of our cap space for a winger seems like a real logical plan.

I really don’t think the cap is a problem in this scenario. People seem to forget that we will have an 8 million dollar goalie coming off the books soon enough along with cyclops and crew. In addition the kids are still on ELCs. If you need to make space three years down the road, like I said previously, then maybe that would be a time to look at trading Panarin and recouping assets but I really just do not seem any downside right now in signing him. If anything, he can help the younglings maybe reach their potential. For me, that’s reason enough. In addition, if we get Panarin, I think that Kreider should be packaged with a pick so we can move up and pick up a center in be draft. I just think it’s ridiculous that people say you can’t sign a major free agent and still rebuild at the same time.

 

[Avery16]

Better then entertaining resigning Kreider.

Been advocating this for last couple of months. Trade Krieder for 12-14 pick. I have a strong feeling a couple D in addition to Byram jump into the top 10 along with Caufield. One of Zegras/Newhook will be there. Use the Jets pick and (hopefully) pick 28. Sign Panarin.

Out Kreider. In Kakko, Zegras, Panarin plus whoever they pick with the Jets and Dallas picks.

It isn't either/or. We can both trade Kreider for futures and not sign Panarin.