I do not disagree with you. That said, IF there is a deal out there that gets Gorton one of the prospects that he and Clark are in love with and it involves Kreider, I think he is moved without hesitation. If there is no such deal (at least not a realistic one without gross overpaying), then I believe that Gorton will explore an extension for all of the reasons that you name. At that point, it will be up to Kreider to decide if he wants to see the rebuild through and be one of the leaders or if his future lies elsewhere. I don't believe that Gorton does things willy nilly. He has specific parameters regarding a contract, more than likely. Dollars, years, NTC/NMC. If Krieder wants to fit himself within that box, he will stay. If not, he is goine.
Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XL
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How are they "locks"? Buchnevich had a good second half and the other two have never stepped a toe onto NA ice. I am sure Brian Lawton was a lock. As was Daigle.
I think that's reasonable. I also think that if there's a kid they really like in the 12-20 range they can get him without having to use Kreider. Let's be real, while we sometimes get the player right when it comes to trades, we never call who gets moved to get that player. It's never who we think. And again, if his demands are out of whack, thanks for everything Chris we'll have a nice video waiting when you come back and visit.
But I'm doing everything I can to keep him. I think him and Zibanejad as linemates would do wonders for Kakko or Kratsovs development.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Three things you can count on. Death. Taxes. And a pessimistic True Blue post posing as realism.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
Well, we never for sure know a players value until they are traded. But, in my opinion, I would think more than 1-2 teams would be inquiring about Trouba and I would bet there are more than a few he would consider.
He isn't a McD. He is an RFA and I can't imagine a team trading for Trouba without a deal being done in advance. The cost would be so great that it just isn't worth the risk. Mark Stone was a soon to be UFA, a 1st line player and just received a prospect that is comparable to Miller/Kravstov, + a roster player + 2nd. I would assume Trouba's value is at the very least equal to Stone and Stone was a soon to be UFA and Ottawa had little leverage.
Winnipeg's 1st + Miller/Kravstov + Pionk is what I would expect to be a fair price and in the middle of what I was saying in the other thread. If we were another 2 years into our rebuild, I would be a little bit more on board with paying that kind of price. I feel as if that is only the kind of move you make when you are clearly on the upswing, not bottoming out, which we are just now doing. There are too many unknowns to start making those kinds of moves. I hope Gorton feels the same way. Trading for Trouba is a bad idea in my opinion and I will lose a lot of the faith I have in JG if he makes that kind of move while we still have so many outstanding unknowns.
I think Fast would beat him out, but maybe he could pitch in on LW. Beats being 13F. Come to think of it, Smith could give him a run for his money.
Way too logical lol ... if he’s really making 2 million then yea it’s an easy contract to a cap floor team like the Yotes
- Jan 18, 2012
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define extended.
Tournaments and youtube, no where near the exposure of professional players.
In the ideal scenario, Kreider lands us a top6 talent in the draft and we sign Panarin.
He has 1 more year to UFA, McD and Miller had 1.5 years to UFA. He can sign the QO from Winnipeg and get there July 1. All that matters. And more teams than 1-2 would certainly inquire about him, but how many teams will he consider signing with? I would be a bit surprised if it was 10-15. These guys nowadays seem to have a pretty short short-list.
But who knows, I have a tendency to get into a bit of wishful thinking about these things...
But seriously though, its not like I would fall of a chair in surprise if Friedman in a week reports that Trouba trade talks are picking up but that he his agent has let suitors know that he only will consider resigning long-term with X, Y or Z team at this point. Seems almost more the norm than the exception these days. However, nor would I be that surprised if he resigned in Winnipeg either...With that said, Chevy would never give him away. But if we start to talk about Kravtsov, a 1st in a decent range and a young roster player -- its a heck of a lot for someone that never really have been a No 1 D in his career and is a year away from UFA. Then you can really ask yourself, why not wait until July 1 next season? Who is paying that for someone you have to fork up UFA money for anyway? Would Detroit trade Zadina, next year's 1st and a roster player for Trouba? Would Philly deal Patrick, and a 1st for Trouba? I am not sure if Chevy gets a deal done if that is the ask given that Trouba is a UFA in a year.
In the end I think I agree with you, I am just much more inclined to wishful thinking on this topic, and I have a hard time seeing Gorton force a deal for Trouba giving up a major package. He just isn't 'that' good.
I'll be interested to see what aggressive really means for Gorton, if it even materializes at all. We're all hoping for another top-10 pick but we need a dance partner to get there. I'm hopeful, but I feel like it really requires a lot of maneuvering or a play out of left field in order for it to get done.
I think next summer we'll have a better picture of where we need to focus our efforts to fill gaps from the outside. Kakko and Fox are big additions that can contribute as pros quickly. The Russians coming over combined with steps forward from the other kids in our pool could drastically change the cost to acquire impact players. If a few players can raise their stock this year, then the Rangers likely have to cough up fewer assets to make a deal next summer.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
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FWIW, Carp said in the comments of his Fox article that it's unlikely that they buy out Shattenkirk this summer. He's actually broken some stuff recently, maybe he's got some sources now. This just seems like common sense, but it's counter to what Brooks is suggesting.
DutchShamrock
Registered User
Lots of people falling over themselves to take on Callahan to move up 31 spots. With our cap space and cheap talent, we should be eyeing bigger prizes with all these RFAs breaking the bank.
I know I'm a broken record at this point but if someone wants me to take on dead space in this offseason, they need to make it worth passing up on the ability to add a good piece at a discount.
Everyone knows Panarin's stats and favorite NHL cities but they all forget that lopsided trade to Columbus because the Hawks were strapped. Times that by 7 teams but we want Cally for making a pick 30 spots better.
I know I'm a broken record at this point but if someone wants me to take on dead space in this offseason, they need to make it worth passing up on the ability to add a good piece at a discount.
Everyone knows Panarin's stats and favorite NHL cities but they all forget that lopsided trade to Columbus because the Hawks were strapped. Times that by 7 teams but we want Cally for making a pick 30 spots better.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
It's funny when you think about it (and I realize that Daigle was was super-hyped etc...) but I would never have thought that the guy played over 600 NHL games and had his best year when he was 28.
Beacon
Embrace the tank
- May 28, 2007
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You realize there aren't 10 guys projected as first (or even second) line players, right? In the last 20 years since 1999, only 2 guys scored 200+ career points after getting drafted 10OA, and neither was particularly special: Frolik and Kostitsyn.
In the history of the league, only 1 guy taken 10OA became a legit long term first liner and he was drafted in 1988. The median guy had 326 career games, roughly 4 seasons.
And the worst part is that unlike fans, GMs prefer safety to upside. Most of the guys drafted 7-12 are safe guys with a limited upside like our own Jay More, Sundstrom, Malhotra, Lias. Most of the surprise picks like Karlsson and Hossa tend to go in the teens after the safe guys are gone.
egelband
Registered User
- Sep 6, 2008
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Exactly. Getting guys in the right cap slots is key. I imagine the Rangers have a template listing how high they can go for each roster role. If Kreider and the Rangers agree on his role and the years, they should be able to come to an agreement. But if he is, for example, demanding to be paid above the spot the Rangers see for him, they'll have to trade him.
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n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
I think we could do better taking Horton's ancient contract off of Toronto's hands. No one is gonna take Cally at the TDL unless he like goes on a comeback year and has 20 goals fir us by TDL.
Agreed 100%
But if they decide to trade him, we will spend the next five seasons trying to find the next guy just like him.
"But it’s kind of a soft rebuild (for the Rangers), if you want to call it that." -McKenzie, March 11th
"A lot of things will happen this summer ... We will do whatever we can to advance that" -Gorton, April 7th
"He scored 28, on pace for 35, he's pretty consistent, looked like he was going to have a career year." -Gorton, April 7th
"Chris is a goal scorer, and they're hard to find." -Gorton, April 7th
Take it for what it's worth -- posturing or not. After listening to the recent post season closer, it's quite persuasive. It sounds like the Rangers will try to do whatever they can to win sooner than later. I really do believe they will push hard for Panarin, sign Kreider, and move forward with Panarin, Zibanejad, and Kreider. Whether you think that is wrong or impatient is a separate discussion.
"A lot of things will happen this summer ... We will do whatever we can to advance that" -Gorton, April 7th
"He scored 28, on pace for 35, he's pretty consistent, looked like he was going to have a career year." -Gorton, April 7th
"Chris is a goal scorer, and they're hard to find." -Gorton, April 7th
Take it for what it's worth -- posturing or not. After listening to the recent post season closer, it's quite persuasive. It sounds like the Rangers will try to do whatever they can to win sooner than later. I really do believe they will push hard for Panarin, sign Kreider, and move forward with Panarin, Zibanejad, and Kreider. Whether you think that is wrong or impatient is a separate discussion.
Glen Sathers Cigar
Sather 4 Ever
Seems like Brooks really has an axe to grind with Shattenkirk. He totally would have trade value, even if minimal. I feel like his deal is fair and only 2 years left so you add in retention the idea of buying him out is crazy to me.
I get that Shatty has been underwhelming but the constant shots from the teams one major beat reporter doesn’t sit right with me. Dude took less term and less money, against all common sense and advice from his agent I’m sure, all because he wanted to be a Ranger. Not saying that should make him immune to criticism, definitely not. But it seems like Brooks has gone harder on him than has seemed warranted. Especially after years of barely critiquing tiger overpaid and underperforming D while the team was actually good.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
The real issue with this post is that it makes what I think is the wrong assumption about what it will take to acquire Trouba. Not the ultimate value, which you’ve probably pegged right, but the type of deal we’re looking at. It isn’t going to be an asset trade, where Winnipeg deals Trouba for futures. It’s going to be a hockey trade, where Winnipeg deals Trouba for players who can help them now.
And being a hockey trade, if it’s with the Rangers likely going to involve players the Rangers can afford to move. They can afford to move Skjei because the LD pipeline is so solid. They can afford to move Kreider because he’s likely not going to be part of the long-term solution anyway. There are pieces the Rangers have to offer that would appeal to a win-now organization like Winnipeg.
Why buy out a tradeable asset? If anybody gets bought out it is Staal. Shatt at 50% retained is very tradeable.
Thirty One
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