Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XL

[Matt4776]

19 and AG for 13 and Reimer?

The value from 19 to 13 is probably a late first.

Georgie's value isn't a 1st, even with taking back Reimer.

 

[Mikos87]

Here's what I'll say about trading down: you don't see it happen early in drafts much anymore. Teams will take their guy even if its a concerns us reach instead if trading down and risking losing him.

But, if a teams guy gets taken before they can pick, then they will trade down. Usually happens in the 20-40 range.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I think the bigger question is why would Panarin sign with a non-contending team for what will boil down to a discounted price.

The question nobody seems to have an answer for apparently.

 

[Off Sides]

Here's what I'll say about trading down: you don't see it happen early in drafts much anymore. Teams will take their guy even if its a concerns us reach instead if trading down and risking losing him.

But, if a teams guy gets taken before they can pick, then they will trade down. Usually happens in the 20-40 range.

Agreed, teams are going to have their list/tiers/favorites and they probably like at least someone where they are at, which is why I think an overpay would be required to move up.

 

[Ola]

I wonder what value Neal Pionk might have on the trade-market if Gorton could find someone high on him.

Friedman wrote this about Ristolainen:

We’ve mentioned on the 31 Thoughts podcast rumblings that Buffalo and Tampa Bay seriously considered a Ristolainen deal and planned on revisiting it. But another team that poked around him thinks GM Jason Botterill is asking candidates how they can work with Ristolainen and improve his game. I’m a big believer in that. Always easier to solve your issues instead of trading them — if you can.

Pionk does a lot of things well and when a coach/GM see him play they will like what they see in many areas. There is a reason for why two separate NHL coaches brought up the tiny guy from the AHL with poor stats and made him their No 1 D; why he played for US in the WCHs last season and so forth.

I think Pionk's problems affecting his possession numbers are pretty obvious -- he takes too much time with the puck when he gets it in his own end. When there is no option available, its awesome to have a D that can skate himself out of trouble. If a team backs down, its also awesome to have a D that can get past the first fore-checker, because then you blow the middle of the ice open. Pionk does that really well. He also has superb mobility defensively, and he is really good at staying with his guy preventing them from getting open completely. Might not suppress the shot, but it keep prime scoring chances against down, at least if everything else is working.

He should be able to improve a lot of those areas.

 

[Edge]

Here's what I'll say about trading down: you don't see it happen early in drafts much anymore. Teams will take their guy even if its a concerns us reach instead if trading down and risking losing him.

But, if a teams guy gets taken before they can pick, then they will trade down. Usually happens in the 20-40 range.

I also think that's why you have to factor in two things:

1. The ability to identify a unique situation that could make it worth it for another team. That's why you see Arizona come up, and that's why I think Anaheim is a dark horse as well. If you can get reasonably close to the latter's draft position, perhaps using the former, and they like several guys in the "will they or won't they go in the top 10" category, you can potentially try and sell them on the idea of trading down five spots, but picking up additional picks (be it the Jets, Dallas, Tampa, some combo). That would give them three firsts, including as many as two additional picks in the top 60 for their troubles.

2. Speaking to the above, you're going to pay a premium to make a move --- and the Rangers do have the capital. It's more a question of how much of it are they willing to spend. But make no mistake, any move would not come cheap.

 

[RangerBoy]

Rick Carpiniello wrote about the Rangers prospects

“He’s a core building block,” the scout said of Andersson. “There’s not a chance he’ll be a bust. He’s playing as an 18-19 year old. He’s 20 now. He’s got so much ahead of him. It’s the long haul. Look at Sean Couturier (the Flyers’ annual Selke consideration who averaged 13 goals, 22 assists his first five full seasons, then 32 and 44 in each of his age 25-26 seasons). “That’s who Andersson might be. It might take him five years of being a No. 7 forward and be a top third-line center, and then he takes a step offensively. And that’s fine. You’ve just got to be patient.”

Andersson is going to be judged by where he was taken, where impact offensive players normally go off the board. But really there’s not a high-impact player who was taken after Andersson making much noise yet.

An NHL scout added, “I had (Andersson and Chytil) both projected to be top-two line players. They just need some time. I like both of those guys.”

An NHL scout said, “I saw Kravtsov at the World Juniors. He’s going to be a good player. He’s a prospect, a high-end prospect. It might take a while. He’s going to be a top two line player. From what I saw, he’s a high-skill guy. He’s got a lot of things that he needs to learn, but there’s a lot of guys who do, too.”

This quote is about Adam Fox

“Just elite hockey sense is the first thing that comes to mind when anybody talks about him,” Drury said. “He’s extremely smart. Has great vision, is a great puck-mover, a really high-end power-play guy that could probably step right in and run an NHL power play fairly soon.

Ranking the top prospects in the New York Rangers' system

 

[Edge]

Rick Carpiniello wrote about the Rangers prospects

It's always interesting to me to talk to people in the industry and hear which guys have higher value on here than the rest of the league, and which guys have higher value around the league than most people realize on here.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

"But it’s kind of a soft rebuild (for the Rangers), if you want to call it that." -McKenzie, March 11th
"A lot of things will happen this summer ... We will do whatever we can to advance that" -Gorton, April 7th
"He scored 28, on pace for 35, he's pretty consistent, looked like he was going to have a career year." -Gorton, April 7th
"Chris is a goal scorer, and they're hard to find." -Gorton, April 7th

Take it for what it's worth -- posturing or not. After listening to the recent post season closer, it's quite persuasive. It sounds like the Rangers will try to do whatever they can to win sooner than later. I really do believe they will push hard for Panarin, sign Kreider, and move forward with Panarin, Zibanejad, and Kreider. Whether you think that is wrong or impatient is a separate discussion.

It's financially irresponsible and unrealistic to have both Panarin and Kreider signed to long term deals on this team that doesn't have a clear view of what it's center depth is going forward and has a defense that is filled with question marks and useless players. Not happening.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Roughly half the league is green with envy over how well our rebuild is going, there is nothing to bicker about regarding past moves. Constructive debate over how to stay the course is the only debate worth focusing on right now. Colorado isnt giving us the 4th OA for Kreider, Jets arent giving us Trouba for Lias or Kreider either. In terms of an offer sheet, I see us trying to get Johnsson or Kapanen from Toronto, but thats about it in terms of creative options. Maybe we make a deal for Callahan or another bad contract, but it is unlikely that other teams have anything particularly great to offer us for taking their trash. Our #1 priority right now needs to be improving the Hartford Wolfpack. Having a top 5 prospect pool wont matter if you cant develop those kids.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

19 and AG for 13 and Reimer?

Interesting, but being a Rangers homer wants more for AG. Like 13 and Reimer for AG straight up or the Dallas pick.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

It's always interesting to me to talk to people in the industry and hear which guys have higher value on here than the rest of the league, and which guys have higher value around the league than most people realize on here.

I feel like it's pretty easy to discern:

1. Guys who are loved on here are over-hyped, no matter their skill level.

2. Guys who are loathed are undervalued (sans a few like Glass).

I should add that draft picks almost always seem to be extraordinarily overvalued. And we are seeing this play out now in the Fox thread. Whereas everyone should be ecstatic (or withholding their excitement until the signing is made official), you see a good amount of people thinking we gave up too much or should have waited a year until he inevitably signed with us for free.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Interesting, but being a Rangers homer wants more for AG. Like 13 and Reimer for AG straight up or the Dallas pick.

Come on. Geo is not worth that. When was the last time a goalie was traded for a first round pick? Let alone one that was in the top 15.

 

[True Blue]

Three things you can count on. Death. Taxes. And a pessimistic True Blue post posing as realism.

What are you talking about? I am a little ray of sunshine around here.

And there is no posing. I am simply warning about dangers of penciling someone in before they every step a toe onto NA ice.

 

[True Blue]

It's funny when you think about it (and I realize that Daigle was was super-hyped etc...) but I would never have thought that the guy played over 600 NHL games and had his best year when he was 28.

Daigle got dragged out on a lot of teams. I think it's the belief that they would be the ones to get him to play to his talent level. Which let's face it, was sky high.

 

[romba]

Interesting, but being a Rangers homer wants more for AG. Like 13 and Reimer for AG straight up or the Dallas pick.

It was already homerfied, you just made it EA sports circa 2005 esque. If you keep adding 5th rounders it might go through...

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Come on. Geo is not worth that. When was the last time a goalie was traded for a first round pick? Let alone one that was in the top 15.

They would be taking back a bad contract while trading a late first as well. Its not AG straight up for the 13.

Also Schneider was moved for the #9 straight up. So it's not without precedent. AG is not at the same level of Schneider at the time that trade went down.

 

[True Blue]

I think that's reasonable. I also think that if there's a kid they really like in the 12-20 range they can get him without having to use Kreider. Let's be real, while we sometimes get the player right when it comes to trades, we never call who gets moved to get that player. It's never who we think. And again, if his demands are out of whack, thanks for everything Chris we'll have a nice video waiting when you come back and visit.

But I'm doing everything I can to keep him. I think him and Zibanejad as linemates would do wonders for Kakko or Kratsovs development.

It will come down to what kind of deal is on the table and what kind of cards Gorton has been dealt. It also comes down to where the Jets pick is and where the Dallas pick is.

I am with you as far as Kreider and ZBad. Both can be on the other side of the rebuild as leaders. I think the dominoes line up when the Jets and Dallas picks are finalized and when Gorton sees how the draft is developing.

 

[Ori]

Is`t time to move Jesper Fast or Vesey to open up some spots for some youth, thoughts?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Rick Carpiniello wrote about the Rangers prospects







This quote is about Adam Fox



Ranking the top prospects in the New York Rangers' system

This article is the best thing carp has ever done.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

You think the Panthers will be better than the Rangers in three years? Five years? If another rebuild in South Florida fails, you reckon that will be a fun place to play? There are fifty hypotheticals on the table and I'm sure Panarin will spend a lot of time deliberating. To present it as a fait accompli is... not realistic.

Players don't really look that far when signing a contract. Florida is warm, they have a better team now, they have established star players and no state or local taxes.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

They would be taking back a bad contract while trading a late first as well. Its not AG straight up for the 13.

Also Schneider was moved for the #9 straight up. So it's not without precedent. AG is not at the same level of Schneider at the time that trade went down.

I forgot about Schneider, good call. I also didn't see we were trading one of our firsts as well. Makes more sense. My bad.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Is`t time to move Jesper Fast or Vesey to open up some spots for some youth, thoughts?

Yes. I was surprised we didn't move one or both of them this deadline.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

I like Adam Fox better than Evan Bouchard, but I think their value should be pretty close. I would have dealt two 2nds for Bouchard. JMHO.

Me too, he is bigger and younger.

 

[Tawnos]

What are you talking about? I am a little ray of sunshine around here.

And there is no posing. I am simply warning about dangers of penciling someone in before they every step a toe onto NA ice.

Yeah, you're a regular bundle of joy

I call it posing because I don't really believe there's another way for a rebuilding team to operate except as if their rebuild is going to go according to plan. Rebuilds by their very nature are optimistic endeavors.