Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV

[kovazub94]

I should also say that if they’re both close in the Rangers eyes, but Edmonton has a clear preference that could be a deciding factor in who goes

Could play out this way too but I hope the Rangers have a good idea who they want to keep and make Edmonton blink first.

 

[Avery16]

IMHO it’s likely only one of Andersson or Howden will be kept as part of the long term core and so far the evidence from the Rangers consistency points out to who their preference to keep would be.

I suggested this about three months ago and the thread lost their shit. But it’s looking more likely all the time that neither Howden nor Andersson will be a competitive 2C. There’s nothing wrong with that, but there isn’t much reason to hold on to both while the rest of the league figures that out too.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

See I don't think I'd trade either for JP. I think that there is something really off about JP. The hockey sense isn't there.

He is a reclaimation project, but due to his pedigree I'm willing to give up a player who won't see a Ranger sweater in 4 years in Robertson, and that's an if with a bunch of LHD prospects ahead of him. With Howden and Lias, you are at least getting a 3rd and 4th line center.

I would like to see how both those players do under a new coaching staff. A guy like John Cooper or Pete DeBoer is going to be available in July imo. I would hold off on trading either for a big maybe until some better NHL coaching comes along.

The kicker for EDM would be an NHL piece that helps them today.

Robertson & Fast helps them today and gives them a kid that they probably had as a high pick last year.

I don’t think I’d trade either of them for JP either and I agree about JP’s hockey sense. To me I think JP can carve out a Kreider-like role/career, and if they’re getting rid of Kreider, there’s a young (potential) one available for cheap, so makes sense they’re continuing to linger around this

 

[Trxjw]

Howden or Andersson do make a lot of sense for Edmonton. I'd be surprised if it was Howden that got moved, but you never know. The coaches could have a different take on things than the front office, but it does seem like Andersson is the odd-man out right now.

 

[Avery16]

You aren’t sure if you’d give up a 2nd round pick straight up to get puljujarvi?

Pulu will be 23 when that pick is drafted...we might still be in a rebuild. Who knows how deep the 2021 draft is?

 

[Avery16]

Howden or Andersson do make a lot of sense for Edmonton. I'd be surprised if it was Howden that got moved, but you never know. The coaches could have a different take on things than the front office, but it does seem like Andersson is the odd-man out right now.

I could see us moving Howden and splitting those C minutes between Chytil and Andersson. I think thered have to be a small add on their side, either in a late pick or them taking on salary like Beleskey.

 

[Avery16]

Can you trade retained salary cap hits? Like what we retained on namestnikovs?

 

[kovazub94]

Pulu will be 23 when that pick is drafted...we might still be in a rebuild. Who knows how deep the 2021 draft is?

2nd round pick who makes it is probably about 3 years from joining the team after his draft year, 5 years to make a difference. You worried the Rangers still be finishing rebuild in 6 years?

 

[Avery16]

2nd round pick who makes it is probably about 3 years from joining the team after his draft year, 5 years to make a difference. You worried the Rangers still be finishing rebuild in 6 years?

I’m just saying a low 2nd has maybe more value than a 23 year old question mark.

 

[Waivers]

Tricky part is Edmonton has 0 cap space, so I would imagine given the fragile McDavid situation, they need both, a controlled asset who helps them now, and one that is cheap preferably on an ELC.

 

[Trxjw]

I could see us moving Howden and splitting those C minutes between Chytil and Andersson. I think thered have to be a small add on their side, either in a late pick or them taking on salary like Beleskey.

I just have a hard time seeing Howden being the guy the Rangers elect to trade given how everything has played out thus far. Andersson and Puljujarvi have enough overlap that it makes more sense from a purely transactional aspect. Two former high picks; six months apart in age; both fill position of need with their new club; both have had trouble establishing themselves in their current organization.

I really don't think the value is as far apart as we'd like to believe.

 

[Avery16]

I just have a hard time seeing Howden being the guy the Rangers elect to trade given how everything has played out thus far. Andersson and Puljujarvi have enough overlap that it makes more sense from a purely transactional aspect. Two former high picks; six months apart in age; both fill position of need with their new club; both have had trouble establishing themselves in their current organization.

I really don't think the value is as far apart as we'd like to believe.

I think it'll just come down to us trying to move whichever the FO believes is topping out.

 

[Avery16]

Tricky part is Edmonton has 0 cap space, so I would imagine given the fragile McDavid situation, they need both, a controlled asset who helps them now, and one that is cheap preferably on an ELC.

They have so much coming off after this season though. It could be 2/3 a new team next season. But yes, that points to a salary neutral deal. Of course, Pulujarvi isn't on their cap right now, so any contract they take back is going to require another move, or get buried

 

[Waivers]

They have so much coming off after this season though. It could be 2/3 a new team next season.

They do which is great but if Edmonton makes a trade this season then they still need to be cap compliant after the trade is made.

 

[AntNYR]

I'm wary of Puljujärvi. Being finnish I've watched several of his games through the years and he's never once impressed me when playing against adults. He has a lot going for him but something seems to be missing. I feel like Pulju's best game I've seen was equal to Kakko's worst. Were we to get him I bet he'd butt heads with DQ in no time, and Pulju's stubborn behaviour in Edmonton doesn't exactly bode well if that happens. That said, if a coach could get through to him and get Pulju to play an NHL game, he definately might carve a Kreider like career like someone suggested. Maybe he could even become a more skilled version of CK.

 

[aufheben]

The thing that intrigues me re: Poolyparty is the youth environment the Rangers have going on right now as opposed to...whatever the Oilers were doing. We have a good group with a lot of kids battling for spots and a focus on player development. Is this kid really so far gone at 21 that he couldn't yet be molded into a top-6 forward?

 

[Ola]

A few thoughts:

*So if we keep Panarin-Strome-Fast together, and Strome at the deadline has say 70 pts in 61 games and Fast maybe say 60 pts in 61 games — what would they return respectively as rentals?

Panarin can become to forwards what Allaiare is to goalies.

*Even if we play really well and get a lot of pts — making the POs in the East is going to take a lot.

*Is there any way we can get Denis Malgin from Florida??

*I am sorry, but if you want to Moneyball this league, forget about Corsi.

Focus on which areas of a team you should spend your Cap on. Create a strict guideline and never deviate from that. Spoiler alert: Cost for Goalies and LDs should never go north of 5m.

*Fact: When the cap isn’t going up a lot more players become available. The cap cost for a team with a lot of good players will grow faster than the cap, and they have to divest players. The good teams are also more attractive to UFAs, but they will have little to no room to hit the UFA market.

Result: With good players available to get, it becomes more valuable to be able to sign good players.

How? It seems apparent to me how to accomplish this. Lock up young players before they have reached their ceiling.

It isn’t only we who use Bridge-Deals. Winnipeg did it with Neal Pionk. He is playing 30 minutes a night for them, he is their best CF% D and he scores pts. Do you think Chevy is going OMG OMG OMG? After next season he has to resign Pionk in lieu of arbitration, that contract will NEVER be good in terms of contribution/cost.

*But then many are going ‘but Gorton is saving the long term deals for the kids we have that is REALLY good’, that must be smart!!

No. No. No. No. Those guys will always get paid anyway. If there is anyone you should bridge deal, it’s like Austin Matthews or Connor McDavid (if you aren’t afraid of losing them to UFA, ie if you are an attractive team to play for).

The players you should give long-term deals are the ones who haven’t quite broken out yet and don’t have a super strong pedigree.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers weren't mentioned as one of the teams interested in Puljujarvi. Elliotte Friedman reported TB and Carolina were the two teams. Edmonton wants a combination of a player/prospect and a draft pick. Both of those weren't comfortable giving up both assets for Puljujarvi.

12. Jesse Puljujarvi knows what he has to do in Finland — play hard and play well. He’s off to the right start. The Oilers talked with Carolina (Julien Gauthier) and Tampa Bay (Alexander Volkov was someone they liked), but didn’t get to where they felt comfortable.

31 Thoughts: Tense RFA waiting game hits final stages - Sportsnet.ca

Elliotte discussed this topic on the NHL Network. He needs to grow back his beard.

 

[RangerBoy]

Edmonton has those Detroit Red Wings connections with Kenny Holland and Tyler Wright. Craig Custance reported Detroit was interested in selecting Lias Andersson at #9 in 2017 but the Rangers selected him at #7. Wright ran the Red Wings draft department and is now the Oilers director of amateur scouting. Wright joined Holland in Edmonton.

Kevin Cheveldayoff was the Hawks AGM in 2010 when the Hawks selected Kevin Hayes. Which GM acquired Hayes as a rental? Cheveldayoff.

These connections do exist.

Puljujarvi is a risk. Kekkelainen passed him over for Dubois. The player struggled in Edmonton. He could never establish himself as a NHL player. JD was in Columbus at the time. I am sure he knows why Jarmo passed on Jesse. Dubois is an excellent young player but the Finn was supposed to be a notch below Laine.

Time will tell.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The Rangers weren't mentioned as one of the teams interested in Puljujarvi. Elliotte Friedman reported TB and Carolina were the two teams. Edmonton wants a combination of a player/prospect and a draft pick. Both of those weren't comfortable giving up both assets for Puljujarvi.



31 Thoughts: Tense RFA waiting game hits final stages - Sportsnet.ca

Elliotte discussed this topic on the NHL Network. He needs to grow back his beard.

That article was back in August when the Oilers werent sure what they were. On Saturday headlines on cbc hockey night in canada last night they said the Rangers were the team that keeps coming up in conversations around Puuijarvi. I'd say they would be more willing to add a roster player with the way they have played. I mean if there is a franchise that really needs to make the playoffs this year its Edmonton. I really feel like Puuijarvi and Kakko were on similar paths, I mean Kakko doesnt exactly look good right now, but everyone knows he will be. Edmonton was in full on panic mode with Puuijarvi and basically crapped all over him for not being the next Jari Kurri right away. I believe we could make something out of him, and as long as it's something like Puuijarvi and a pick/prospect for Kreider I'd take that gamble. Edmonton can ask the moon for him but its 3 months now and nobody bit, they will have to lower their ask.

Headlines: What's going on with Dustin Byfuglien? - Sportsnet.ca

 

[egelband]

That prob makes sense but if the Oilers front office believes they can keep up their current form and go on a playoff run wouldnt it make sense from them to acquire a Kreider? Especially with their scoring depth being horrendous besides Mcdavid Draisaitl and Neal

Kreider's value right now has to be pretty low. He's playing right now like a kind of butch Michael Grabner.

 

[GAGLine]

Kreider's value right now has to be pretty low. He's playing right now like a kind of butch Michael Grabner.

Kreider has been very good the last 2 games. Whatever the reason for his slow start, he seems to be coming out of it. There's still a lot of season left before the TDL for him to establish his value. He still has 6 points in 11 games despite the slow start, so he's not far off his usual production.

 

[Mikos87]

One of the biggest red flags I have for a kid is if he regresses a year or two before becoming a full time NHLer. Usually that means a guy will have to find a new role or game to play in the NHL.

So that 4th overall upside, that WJC player that was dominant, the size speed and skill that was on display 4 years ago with JP isn't something I believe will translate well into the NHL. IMO you are looking at a Brett Connolly at best if he turns things around, or a Sam Bennet type of player. A kid who lit up juniors, but has to transform his game in the NHL. I think the thing with Jesse was that it was more than just one thing.

1. He didn't mature physically.
2. Was rushed. Didn't learn to play in all three zones.
3. Foreign kid with a language barrier who was yo-yoed for 3 years without much support. We've seen what that can do to a kid.
4. Doesn't know how to forecheck, misses backchecks.
5. Isn't strong enough to cycle and win board battles.
6. Has had issues with team and management.

None of those things say you give up a premium asset for him. The Bolts Volkov, and Gauthier are guys who are deeper in their team's pools where they won't see NHL ice. The Rangers have defensive prospects like that, but not forwards.

It sounds like EDM is looking for a cost controlled checking line center that's young and reliable, or a RH shooter that can get some goals off of some McDavid and Draisaitl time.

You have to think that JP is going to be a 20-20 guy that can slot in your top 9 if you want to give up Anderson or Howden. Not because that's what you expect Lias to Brett to be, but because you are going to give up a viable NHL player for a big maybe.

 

[Mikos87]

Strome is definitely in play for a longer stay with the Rangers - especially if he also performs on the right wing when they give that a shot.

They like him. He's a good stabilizing presence on the team. You need guys like that who will take care of his teammates, and show the kids the ropes. Strome brings a veteran leadership that I don't think is abundant on the roster.

Strome's a really good guy. He'll have a letter on his chest if he sticks around.

 

[Good Intentions]

They like him. He's a good stabilizing presence on the team. You need guys like that who will take care of his teammates, and show the kids the ropes. Strome brings a veteran leadership that I don't think is abundant on the roster.

Strome's a really good guy. He'll have a letter on his chest if he sticks around.

I don't doubt that he's a "good guy" - but strikes me more of a middle-of-the-pack soldier than a leader. Don't think he should be near any letter, for a variety of reasons.