Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV

[rangersfansince08]

A lot of good discussion the last couple of pages. The Rangers are in the odd position right now that I don't think they're as bad as their lows so far this season, and definitely not as good as the high points this season. The wins against Buffalo, TB, and Carolina last night were nice but unexpected.

Their overall record right now, as a matter of fact, I think is the best reflection on what they are now. A young team with major flaws that battles every night. A .500 hockey club that's not an easy win on any given night. The Boston game was an anomaly. They're winning the Cup this year, IMO.

Getting Zibanejad back, good play by Buchnevich, DeAngelo, Strome, and Panarin, Hajek and Lindgren not looking out of place, and Kakko and Fox getting better and better by the game is going to be good for this team as the season goes on. It's starting to look like the Rangers are going to be in the hunt until the closing games of the season.

The Rangers can't let Kreider walk for nothing. He's looked better of late. I'm ok with keeping him but only on a 3 or 4 year deal. I would not give him 7 or 8 years. Sign him short term or trade him, but make the decision before the deadline.

The writing is on the wall for Buchnevich. He's going to command big term and big dollars in summer 2021. He's playing well. Trade him this summer when his value is highest for a premium asset. Add a LHD prospect not named Miller or Jones to make the deal happen.

Skjei or DeAngelo is the defense trade bait to go for a center. With Trouba locked in and with Fox playing well, and with DeAngelo needing a new contract this summer after holding out, I think he's the bait. His value is going to be through the roof if he finishes the year with 40 points. The Rangers will be able to get something nice for him. I don't know what to do with Skjei, but I'd be very surprised to see both he and DeAngelo on this team to start the 2020-21 season.

Deangelo is more likely to finish with 60 pts than 40 pts. In which case we are not trading a weapon like that.

 

[kovazub94]

Still very early, but if it comes down to one of Hajek, Lindgren & Skjei needing to get exposed, is it a bad idea to lose $5.25M off the cap if Skjei plays like his October's & November's?

I still think that with a guy like Skjei- you end up wanting more when he needs to do less. The right system, and the right structure is going to be good for Skjei. In other words if you put him on the Islanders, he's a top 4 consistent D. The tools are there, the thinking and decision making is not.

IMO he is a trade asset, but only after the Rangers stabilize their defense. That starts with systems and structure, not just the players. So a lot remains to be seen. This is one of the reasons why I was so miffed that the Rangers brought back the same personnel to coach their defense. 3 Years of poor defensive structure in NY, after 17 years of it in BUF and DAL should tell you that... you know maybe there are better alternatives. Gorts and Co seem to be a little slow on the uptake here.

Pretty much agree with all.
For the expansion draft his $5.25m cap works against Skjei if he continues to stay inconsistent : ) and Hajek and Lindgren (and Rykov) continue to develop. But if you take it out of this equation - this is a pretty good cap for a 2nd pair defenseman that some organization could still think is not his ultimate ceiling.

Any more imminent trade discussions could be deferred until much later this season, if not beyond.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Winnipeg for Ehlers. We add a prospect or Strome or something but they need D and Ehlers changes our look up front dramatically.

why would they ever do this?

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

I think a player like Robertson or K'andre make Skjei expendable, not Lindgren or Hajek.

The way I look at it is Skjei is making himself expendable, not anyone else

 

[Ola]

On another note. I’ve come to terms with the fact we’re going to have to trade Georgiev at the deadline or during the summer.

hank is not going anywhere next year. And frankly Shesterkin is too good for the AHL now. We can get away with it this season but he’s not going to sit there another year.

but maybe more overlooked is the fact that while we have to find money to keep some of our kids in 48 and 77 we also have to give Georgiev a raise and with the cap crunch I don’t think we’re going to want to pay a second goalie more than the 925k. Georgiev will demand More as he should especially if he continues to play well this season.

the org seems high on Huska as well as they should be. Wall is playing really well in college and should get a contract and they obviously love lindbolm although who knows if he stays healthy. They’re going to deal Georgiev from a position of strength and hopefully get a solid return. Perhaps recoup a 2nd rounder they lost on Fox.

and then there’s this. Who knows if hank even wants to retire after next season. He may want to play another year or two with Shesterkin. I’m sure the org would give him another contract on the cheap if they feel he’s capable.

I hate this but I fully believe Georgiev is definitely going. I just don’t know when but it could be soon. I keep looking at Columbus. But San Jose Minnesota Detroit even the devils to name a few others

I agree on Geo, he is gone. Probably for a 3rd round pick, maybe a 2nd round pick

I think we can keep Lemieux, because he is not going to have an insane year stat wise.

But I think both TDA and Buch are history simply because they are going to be tremendously costly to keep given that we gave them bridge deals. We will have to move them for cents on the dollar (like with all our players).

It’s to bad that Gorton can’t figure these things out. He is really carried by our amateur scouting. They add value, Gorton pisses it away..

 

[Edge]

I agree on Geo, he is gone. Probably for a 3rd round pick, maybe a 2nd round pick

I think we can keep Lemieux, because he is not going to have an insane year stat wise.

But I think both TDA and Buch are history simply because they are going to be tremendously costly to keep given that we gave them bridge deals. We will have to move them for cents on the dollar (like with all our players).

It’s to bad that Gorton can’t figure these things out. He is really carried by our amateur scouting. They add value, Gorton pisses it away..

I could see Georgiev being packed with Strome in the offseason, not unlike Stepan-Raanta.

Obviously at a lower price point, but in a similar fashion.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I agree on Geo, he is gone. Probably for a 3rd round pick, maybe a 2nd round pick

I think we can keep Lemieux, because he is not going to have an insane year stat wise.

But I think both TDA and Buch are history simply because they are going to be tremendously costly to keep given that we gave them bridge deals. We will have to move them for cents on the dollar (like with all our players).

It’s to bad that Gorton can’t figure these things out. He is really carried by our amateur scouting. They add value, Gorton pisses it away..

There's no reason to move Georgiev if the offer is just a 2nd or 3rd. We're not going to risk losing him in the expansion draft.

There's also no reason why we can't re-sign TDA and Buch. Buch is signed through next season and we'll have a ton of space available for an extension from Lundqvist's, Smith's, and Staal's expiring contract. We'll have more space this summer than last summer for ADA as well.

I'm confident Gorton can figure things out. He's not pissing anything away. That's what Sather used to do. Gorton has shown he's excellent a managing his assets.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I could see Georgiev being packed with Strome in the offseason, not unlike Stepan-Raanta.

Obviously at a lower price point, but in a similar fashion.

If Strome puts up 50-60 points, his value could be decently high. He'll be restricted and can sign a contract with a team on their terms. I wouldn't move that package of players for a lower price point, honestly. I'd want a pretty nice haul to move those guys.

 

[Ola]

There's no reason to move Georgiev if the offer is just a 2nd or 3rd. We're not going to risk losing him in the expansion draft.

There's also no reason why we can't re-sign TDA and Buch. Buch is signed through next season and we'll have a ton of space available for an extension from Lundqvist's, Smith's, and Staal's expiring contract. We'll have more space this summer than last summer for ADA as well.

I'm confident Gorton can figure things out. He's not pissing anything away. That's what Sather used to do. Gorton has shown he's excellent a managing his assets.

Geo is a RFA. He is arb eligible unless I have missed something.

What will he cost, say 40 games and solid stats. 4m per? Where is Shesty going to play? Nobody will take Hank.

I think he is gone. What are the options??

Of course we “can” resign TDA and Buch. But what would the cost be?

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Geo is a RFA. He is arb eligible unless I have missed something.

What will he cost, say 40 games and solid stats. 4m per? Where is Shesty going to play? Nobody will take Hank.

I think he is gone. What are the options??

4M for 40 games? I don't see that happening.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Let me offer a counterpoint...doesn’t Ruff deserve credit for the improved play of Hajek, DeAngelo and Lindgren? How about the steadiness of Fox?

I’ve never agreed that he is the problem. The coach sets the overall system. Ruff develops the defensemen. So far this year, he deserves a lot of credit.

This is the youngest defense in the NHL and the forwards aren’t very defensive minded. He is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

To put it simply, no Ruff does not deserve any credit for “improved play,” as he is the reason that improvement was necessary. Deangelo’s anchor was his attitude, which was fixed by Quinn. Fox was brilliant out the gate. Lindgren came up from Hartford steady right away. Hajek is wildly inconsistent and seemingly has a good game followed by a bad one each time. The defensive scheme as a whole does not work, and the development of the players has left them to fend for themselves. From experience, this seems a lot like a college course where you have to self study the material from the textbook to pass the professor’s exam. Ruff has to go.

 

[Drew4u]

Geo is a RFA. He is arb eligible unless I have missed something.

What will he cost, say 40 games and solid stats. 4m per? Where is Shesty going to play? Nobody will take Hank.

I think he is gone. What are the options??

Of course we “can” resign TDA and Buch. But what would the cost be?

Why wouldn't teams take Hank ? Maybe not at 8.5 but at 6.5 sure.

 

[Edge]

If Strome puts up 50-60 points, his value could be decently high. He'll be restricted and can sign a contract with a team on their terms. I wouldn't move that package of players for a lower price point, honestly. I'd want a pretty nice haul to move those guys.

I think the return could be good. Do I think there's a top-10 pick and a high upside defenseman to be had via that package? Eh, doubtful.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Why wouldn't teams take Hank ? Maybe not at 8.5 but at 6.5 sure.

Well there’s the whole NMC thing

 

[I Eat Crow]

I agree on Geo, he is gone. Probably for a 3rd round pick, maybe a 2nd round pick

I think we can keep Lemieux, because he is not going to have an insane year stat wise.

But I think both TDA and Buch are history simply because they are going to be tremendously costly to keep given that we gave them bridge deals. We will have to move them for cents on the dollar (like with all our players).

It’s to bad that Gorton can’t figure these things out. He is really carried by our amateur scouting. They add value, Gorton pisses it away..

I agree with your line of thinking Ola, but I think you're undervaluing our guys by quite a bit.

Georgiev will be a young goalie that will be RFA at the end of the season that has proven over a decent sized sample that he can be a starting goalie in this league. There's precedent for him to garner more in a trade than a low 2nd or high 3rd rounder.

Both Freddie Anderson and Martin Jones had similar numbers over the course of a similar sample size of games at the same age Georgiev is now. They garnered a late 1st and middle 1st rounder, respectively. I don't think it's exactly outlandish that Georgiev can net a high draft pick and a middle round pick. Maybe not a 1st rounder, but maybe a 2nd and 3rd rounder not unlike what Talbot brought back.

DeAngelo's value is going to be meteorically high this summer. RFA at 24 years old with two more years until UFA. The acquiring team can sign him to a large contract. The Rangers are packed to the brim with defense prospects. They have Trouba and Fox. Trouba got big money over many years. He's not going anywhere. Fox is 21 with two more years of an ELC cap hit after this one. DeAngelo is the odd man out. The Rangers aren't paying DeAngelo 5-6.5 million/season with the current construct of the roster and prospect pool.

The Rangers' prospect pool is embarrassingly shallow at forward outside of Kravtsov and Henriksson.

DeAngelo to Anaheim for Trevor Zegras. DeAngelo is going to be worth a lot this summer. They can acquire a blue chip center prospect or established young NHL center in return.

What happens with Buchnevich has a lot to do with how Kakko continues to progress and if Kravtsov plays better and is ready to go by next year. While it wouldn't surprise me to see Buchnevich dealt next summer, I would be more surprised by him being dealt than in would DeAngelo. Buchnevich shouldn't be dealt for futures unless its forma top 10 draft pick as was the rumor this past summer around him for Edmonton's 8th overall pick.

Upon further thinking about it, maybe there's a mega deal to be had with Anaheim.

Buchnevich and DeAngelo for Zegras and Nick Ritchie. The latter would guaranteed be a fan favorite and make this team even harder to play against. Imagine this lineup...

Kreider (extended 4 years)-Zibanejad-Kakko
Panarin-Strome-Fast (major glaring hole, but they're playing well now)
Ritchie-Chytil-Kravtsov
Andersson-Howden-Who cares

Skjei-Fox
Hajek-Trouba
Lindgren-Rykov/whoever is playing well

Lundqvist
Shestyorkin

Splitting games.

With Zegras joining 2021 after a 2nd year in college.

That team can make the playoffs next year and makes the Rangers really hard to play against, and sets the team up well for the future.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Regardless of what happens, go out and get Nick Ritchie. Want this team to be harder to play against? He's the guy to go out and get

 

[Alluckks]

I think Skjei for a good young 20s forward would be ideal
I could actually see us re-signing Strome to a reasonable contract and playing him at the 3rd line C, in a Brassard kind of role
Skjei + Lias to a team for a strong forward is something I could see

Skjei + Lias for Ehlers?
Kreider for 1st + B prospect to a western conference team

Panarin Zib Fast
Ehlers Chytil Buch
Lemieux Strome Kakko
xx Howden xx

 

[bobbop]

To put it simply, no Ruff does not deserve any credit for “improved play,” as he is the reason that improvement was necessary. Deangelo’s anchor was his attitude, which was fixed by Quinn. Fox was brilliant out the gate. Lindgren came up from Hartford steady right away. Hajek is wildly inconsistent and seemingly has a good game followed by a bad one each time. The defensive scheme as a whole does not work, and the development of the players has left them to fend for themselves. From experience, this seems a lot like a college course where you have to self study the material from the textbook to pass the professor’s exam. Ruff has to go.

You seem to know a whole lot about what happens behind closed doors. Explanation?

 

[RickChartraw]

Am I nuts (and I probably am), but getting Mika back...is this an eighth seed team? Stranger things have happened.

 

[bobbop]

We sure seem to be in a hurry to trade a lot of our younger assets. I've seen Skeji, DeAngelo, Georgiev, Buchnevich, Howden and Andersson all in proposed trades over the last several pages.

Look, I can count. Numbers make it obvious that some of these players will eventually be traded but there's no big rush right now. There are a lot of games (and in some cases seasons) to play and plenty of time to separate the cream from the ballast. Patience, boys and girls, patience.

 

[bobbop]

Am I nuts (and I probably am), but getting Mika back...is this an eighth seed team? Stranger things have happened.

They have a punchers chance.

 

[Alluckks]

Ehlers was reportedly shopped around a bit during the offseason. They re-signed Conner to a big contract and Laine has one coming up as well. Already have Wheeler and Scheif to big contracts too. Friedman reported that they very likely want a defenseman back in a deal. We have made several trades there, and with how Pionk is playing for them it isn't like they have a bitter taste in their mouth from it. Skjei + Howden/Lias makes sense here.

 

[I Eat Crow]

We sure seem to be in a hurry to trade a lot of our younger assets. I've seen Skeji, DeAngelo, Georgiev, Buchnevich, Howden and Andersson all in proposed trades over the last several pages.

Look, I can count. Numbers make it obvious that some of these players will eventually be traded but there's no big rush right now. There are a lot of games (and in some cases seasons) to play and plenty of time to separate the cream from the ballast. Patience, boys and girls, patience.

With all the dead money on the cap next year and some looming extensions needed, there is going to be a casualty or two. Not everyone you listed is going to be traded, but why not take advantage of using a high value asset like DeAngelo to address a major weakness and allow the Rangers to backfill his loss the easiest?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Am I nuts (and I probably am), but getting Mika back...is this an eighth seed team? Stranger things have happened.

If our goaltending is good we’ll be in the mix

 

[nyr2k2]

4M for 40 games? I don't see that happening.

There are barely any comparables that I can think of. I remember Niemi was awarded almost $3M and IIRC Chicago walked away from it.