Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV

[DutchShamrock]

I think it's time based, he's gotta do 20 games or whatever on the 4th line gulag, show that he wants it, and he'll get moved up in the middle of the year. There are but so many actual explanations for this sort of behavior and we have a historical example with Chytil last year. Chytil didn't really play his way off the 4th so much as he did a buncha games there and kept trying.

That sounds like paying dues and getting opportunity based on seniority. This is the exact opposite from what Quinn said last week. I mean, he can lie to the fanbase and feed reporters crap. Being honest isn't necessarily in the job description. He can lie to the players to and tout meritocracy and then just play his favorites. But it will invite scrutiny and complaints.

It's been a week since he benched Staal for merit. He said this is our lineup until someone plays themselves out. Then this today:

He doesn't want to bench Lindgren but he feels, I don't know, obligated to play Staal?

This board has a tendancy to micro analyze every decision but Quinn is inviting the questions like I said.

 

[Tawnos]

That sounds like paying dues and getting opportunity based on seniority. This is the exact opposite from what Quinn said last week. I mean, he can lie to the fanbase and feed reporters crap. Being honest isn't necessarily in the job description. He can lie to the players to and tout meritocracy and then just play his favorites. But it will invite scrutiny and complaints.

It's been a week since he benched Staal for merit. He said this is our lineup until someone plays themselves out. Then this today:

He doesn't want to bench Lindgren but he feels, I don't know, obligated to play Staal?

This board has a tendancy to micro analyze every decision but Quinn is inviting the questions like I said.

I mean... what he said was that Staal "deserves" to get back in. Do we know to what extent Staal has really tried to bear down on things in practice? How hard he's been working on the things the coaching staff has pointed out as the things that got him scratched?

Knowing what we know about Staal in general, I would say it's very likely he's been working hard to correct those issues. The question is ultimately whether or not he can execute those changes in an NHL game, which we all have our doubts about his capability. The word "deserves" is loaded... it can mean a lot of things, but I wouldn't automatically assume it contradicts his meritocracy statement.

 

[Edge]

This board has a tendancy to micro analyze every decision but Quinn is inviting the questions like I said.

I tend to defend Quinn, but yeah he kind of does invite questions when he takes this approach.

I think the hot take nature of this board tends to drive a lot of people to hard line stances. But I believe you can have a mix and objectively question certain aspects. It’s not just perfect vs. chaos. Flaws are a thing, and they don’t necessarily have to outweigh the good.

I admit that flies contradictory to a board where no one wants to be wrong, and where in the face of defeat we tend to battle for at least a draw. But it’s okay to have shades of gray.

So Quinn can be a good coach, but have areas where his approach isn’t necessarily the best. In this particular case, I don’t think his tactics on this matter represent one of his better approaches.

 

[ZiGOODejad]

That sounds like paying dues and getting opportunity based on seniority. This is the exact opposite from what Quinn said last week. I mean, he can lie to the fanbase and feed reporters crap. Being honest isn't necessarily in the job description. He can lie to the players to and tout meritocracy and then just play his favorites. But it will invite scrutiny and complaints.

It's been a week since he benched Staal for merit. He said this is our lineup until someone plays themselves out. Then this today:

He doesn't want to bench Lindgren but he feels, I don't know, obligated to play Staal?

This board has a tendancy to micro analyze every decision but Quinn is inviting the questions like I said.

that just screams i didn't know who to sit. so lets pick the new guy

 

[Kovalev27]

Well, at least everyone has grown from sh!tting on Lias to sh!tting on Quinn

no I’m still shitting on management for the horrific pick. I like lias as a kid. But there’s no way he’d be near an nhl roster if he wasn’t a 7th overall pick of a rebuilding team.

 

[LokiDog]

Staalsie “deserves” to get back in? Why? Because he’s a good guy? And looking at the rest of the D that was the obvious decision? “Staalsie” doesn’t deserve to get back in and Hajek has not shown to be as steady as Lindgren so far. If you’re absolutely going to knee jerk react to the loss, sit Hajek for a game or two and keep riding the solid progress Lindgren is showing.

 

[Avery16]

McIlrath was just called up from the redwings.

RIP Haley

 

[Kovalev27]

To me the best solution is moving Lias at this point and Puljujarvi is the best option. We could use wing depth Edmonton could use a checking center. And us getting another young Finn could help Kakko feel more comfortable. I’d be willing to add a LD prospect like nico gross if need be. Seems like a good change of scenery move for both clubs.

 

[Edge]

Oh boy, I think the concept of Pool-Party is a hell of a lot more appealing than the reality of the last 3 years.

 

[SA16]

Why do we preach patience and development with Lias but not Puljujarvi? Both have been disappointing in the NHL so far but we do see Puljujarvi currently absolutely torching a pro league which Lias has never done. They are 5 months apart in age.

 

[NYR]

I tend to defend Quinn, but yeah he kind of does invite questions when he takes this approach.

I think the hot take nature of this board tends to drive a lot of people to hard line stances. But I believe you can have a mix and objectively question certain aspects. It’s not just perfect vs. chaos. Flaws are a thing, and they don’t necessarily have to outweigh the good.

I admit that flies contradictory to a board where no one wants to be wrong, and where in the face of defeat we tend to battle for at least a draw. But it’s okay to have shades of gray.

So Quinn can be a good coach, but have areas where his approach isn’t necessarily the best. In this particular case, I don’t think his tactics on this matter represent one of his better approaches.

Bolded..Sure does, Bro

 

[Procrastinator]

At this point Quinn is slowly starting to get on my **** list.

 

[effen]

Oh boy, I think the concept of Pool-Party is a hell of a lot more appealing than the reality of the last 3 years.

It's just boredom about the topic of Andersson, they want a new one. I don't think anyone really means it.

 

[Kovalev27]

Why do we preach patience and development with Lias but not Puljujarvi? Both have been disappointing in the NHL so far but we do see Puljujarvi currently absolutely torching a pro league which Lias has never done. They are 5 months apart in age.

JP at least showed some promise at the nhl level before being bounced around by Edmonton. But agree completely Lias has done nothing at this level is only a few months younger but he we should be patient with while Puljujärvi is a bust? Silly. This kids upside is way higher.

And I also think a very big issue he had was the hip problem. Seems like he’s much healthier now.

 

[SA16]

JP at least showed some promise at the nhl level before being bounced around by Edmonton. But agree completely Lias has done nothing at this level is only a few months younger but he we should be patient with while Puljujärvi is a bust? Silly. This kids upside is way higher.

And I also think a very big issue he had was the hip problem. Seems like he’s much healthier now.

JP actually has really good results with McDavid despite being yanked around as a teenager and while you may say he’s McDavid anyone can perform there well that’s not really the case. Alex Chiasson has got a lot of ice time with him the last two years and not be produced at all.

 

[LokiDog]

JP at least showed some promise at the nhl level before being bounced around by Edmonton. But agree completely Lias has done nothing at this level is only a few months younger but he we should be patient with while Puljujärvi is a bust? Silly. This kids upside is way higher.

And I also think a very big issue he had was the hip problem. Seems like he’s much healthier now.

I think the key differences are:

Puljujaarvi is really a top six or bust player.
Lias could pan out as anything from 2-4 C/W

Puljujaarvi ran to Europe when he didn’t like his handling.
Lias accepts whatever role and assignment he’s given and has a positive attitude.

Puljujaarvi does seem healthier now but that injury and surgery at his age is a concern.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

J.p is a legit player, we should do our best to get him, hopefully for someone not in our future plans.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Not everything this management team and coach do are to win the next hockey game, most of these moves are for the future, keep that in mind

 

[Leetch3]

Why do we preach patience and development with Lias but not Puljujarvi? Both have been disappointing in the NHL so far but we do see Puljujarvi currently absolutely torching a pro league which Lias has never done. They are 5 months apart in age.

I cringe thinking about the threads if we get JP and send him to hartford to teach him to play hockey...for a place dedicated to the 'future' there is less patience than anywhere...about everything

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I cringe thinking about the threads if we get JP and send him to hartford to teach him to play hockey...for a place dedicated to the 'future' there is less patience than anywhere...about everything

If they send him to Hartford he’s going to become a 50 goal scorer in the NHL.

#Knoblaucheffect

 

[Blazephr]

What is the status of Rykov?

 

[Leetch3]

I suppose with that outlook, none of our roster decisions can be mistakes. Player is traded, player ceases to be. Return on said trade is automatically a positive, since they appeared out of thin air. Simple enough.

this point would be valid if we were talking about a real hockey trade. it really doesn't apply when you are talking about a rebuilding team unloading veterans...I'm not sure if you are aware of this but we didn't buy out shattenkirk and trade names to make us better in the short term. we also didn't trade mcdonagh, hayes and zuke to make us better right now. and we also aren't going to trade kreider at the deadline to make us a better team right now. so no I don't care what shattenkirk has done thru 10 games...

my in-depth analysis of the moves...if we still had shattenkirk then our right side would be trouba, shattenkirk and deangelo and as a result adam fox would in hartford. and at least twice a day someone would post that its really not a big deal or anything to worry about after all ryan mcdonagh needed 1/2 a season in the AHL...adam fox was clearly NHL ready and looks like a stud. so on a rebuilding team sign me up for this move over keeping shattenkirk.

and similarly if we had kept names and made him the 2C like you suggested countless times then chytil would still be in hartford, so thats another bad idea.

 

[charliemurphy]

In theory he could re-sign with Carolina, too. Were I JG, I’d probably first try to figure out which teams could sign Kreider long-term and play matchmaker. Get a contract extension as part of the trade.

My bad, I didn’t mean for Kreider to be the sole player involved in a trade with Carolina. I honestly don’t know where he would fit in with Carolina as far their depth. Rather just pointing out who I would target if dealing with them... any one or combination of Bokk, Gauthier, Kuokakken and Toronto’s 1st.

 

[Avery16]

and similarly if we had kept names and made him the 2C like you suggested countless times then chytil would still be in hartford, so thats another bad idea.

I would be surprised if I’ve suggested that three times, but I guess three can be a lot. Chytil has looked good since he’s been up. For all three games. It’d certainly be a bad idea to have depth like Names while Chytil finds his footing.

 

[Edge]

I think the key differences are:

Puljujaarvi is really a top six or bust player.
Lias could pan out as anything from 2-4 C/W

Puljujaarvi ran to Europe when he didn’t like his handling.
Lias accepts whatever role and assignment he’s given and has a positive attitude.

Puljujaarvi does seem healthier now but that injury and surgery at his age is a concern.

There’s also the matter of JP sliding heading into the draft. Initially from two to three in most eyes, and then eventually to fourth.

Then there’s the matter of his struggles at the AHL level. A lot of people interested in JP tend to gloss over this aspect and make it sound like he’s simply struggled at the NHL. On the contrary he’s struggled to be a driver at the AHL level as well. So we’re not even talking about a scenario like Chytil, or even the much-beleaguered Andersson where they’re trying to convert to the last stop on their journey.

Edmonton has been a shit show for a while, I get that. But JP’s struggles run a bit deeper than that. Based on some of the comments I’ve seen on here concerning our own prospects, JP and the Rangers would’ve been roasted alive by some of the same people who are really intrigued by this possibility.

JP still holds a degree of appeal. But no one should assume this simply an “Edmonton thing.” If JP is going to carve out a niche, let alone touch past projections, there is still a lot of work to be done and a number of concerns.