Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV

[True Blue]

Or Shattenkirk for that matter.

Oh, yeah. How could I leave him out? Poor play, bad injury and a high salary does not a good trading partner make.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Who? And don't say Staal.

No, I would hope McQuaid but the short term target would probably be Claesson. Less commitment and better play. It wouldn't be a move for assets on my end. I want to free up the log jam. Anaheim is looking for a stop gap until the injury bug passes. I don't see a move to improve the team, but a move to stop the bleeding.

 

[Edge]

Hayes will actually finish with that amount though. 50 points is a lot for a rookie.

I continue to not find myself completely sold on him actually finishing that high though.

For starters, if he did, that would actually mark a career high. There seems to be talk about Hayes as if he's been a consistent 25 goal, 50 point player, but he's never actually hit that 50 point level and has only topped 17 goals once. This year he is on pace for exactly 50 points --- primarily based on 6 points in his last 5 games. Prior to that I think he was on pace for about 35 --- which would've been a career low.

So if we split the difference between potential career lows (including his current goal pace), and potential career highs, we end up with just about where he's always been --- around 17 goals and 45 points.

That's a good player; a very good third line center. But I feel like there continues to be a narrative to push him a little higher than he actually is.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Yeah, not seeing how the Rangers can help the Ducks, unless Skej is the trade. Staal is not tradeable and neither really is Smith.

Disagree. I think he's very tradeable to the right team, with retention of course.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Hayes is insanely underrated on here. He's obviously not going to get the same package as McDonagh, considering McD is a much better player relative to his position, but a 3rd liner on a good team? That's just absolutely ridiculous. Except for a few teams, most don't have 2 centers better than Hayes and those teams are stacked offensively.

Please tell me which 25 goal-50 Point centers play on their teams third lines.

Not that I'm against trading him, but you're acting as if he's going to get peanuts, he is easily worth a 1st + good prospect. The package should easily be better than Nash's.

I'd say similar to Nash as I think everyone would agree we robbed Boston on that trade. Off the top of my head teams hayes would be 3rd line on, Toronto, Pittsburgh,Edmonton, Florida, L.A, Tampa, Anaheim, Philadelphia, San Jose and Washington all have better options in the top 2 spots now, that's just off the top of my head and that's not even exploring teams that have prospects who can come up next year and fill a 2 spot. Hayes is a good player but hes not elite at anything. Teams I think would be a fit for Hayes would be Winnipeg, Vegas and St.Louis, and I haven't even looked at the caps of those teams to see if he would be more than a rental for them.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I continue to not find myself completely sold on him actually finishing that high though.

For starters, if he did, that would actually mark a career high. There seems to be talk about Hayes as if he's been a consistent 25 goal, 50 point player, but he's never actually hit that 50 point level and has only topped 17 goals once. This year he is on pace for exactly 50 points --- primarily based on 6 points in his last 5 games. Prior to that I think he was on pace for about 35 --- which would've been a career low.

So if we split the difference between potential career lows (including his current goal pace), and potential career highs, we end up with just about where he's always been --- around 17 goals and 45 points.

That's a good player; a very good third line center. But I feel like there continues to be a narrative to push him a little higher than he actually is.

I agree, I'm not unhappy with him but his hold on the 2c isnt going to be long with Chytil, Andersson and Howden coming along. More importantly we need young players on the wings as our wing prospect depth is lacking while our center is good and d as well.

 

[Tawnos]

Hayes is insanely underrated on here. He's obviously not going to get the same package as McDonagh, considering McD is a much better player relative to his position, but a 3rd liner on a good team? That's just absolutely ridiculous. Except for a few teams, most don't have 2 centers better than Hayes and those teams are stacked offensively.

Please tell me which 25 goal-50 Point centers play on their teams third lines.

Not that I'm against trading him, but you're acting as if he's going to get peanuts, he is easily worth a 1st + good prospect. The package should easily be better than Nash's.

See, I think he's overrated around here. He scored 25 goals exactly once and, since he's more of a playmaker and last season had more goals than assists, that's a pretty good indication that his goal total was the result of circumstantial success. Hayes is a better player, but think about Brian Boyle in 2010-11. Same concept.

He's 59th in the league in P/G over the last two seasons among 198 centers who have played 60 or more games. Admittedly, some of those players probably aren't playing center regularly, but are listed as centers. 55th in P/60 in the same period of time, all situations. Among forwards with at least 500 5v5 minutes, he is 116th out of 456 players in P/60 at 5v5 over those 2 years.

This is a very good player, but not a special one. He's on that cusp between 2nd and 3rd line centers where you legitimately make the case that he's clearly a 2nd liner on a team like the Rangers, but a 3rd liner on a lot of better teams. In other words, he's going to put up around 50 points when he's getting 2nd line minutes in cases where teams don't have better options, but will put up low 40s when getting 3rd line minutes in cases where teams do have better options.

Is that player worth a Martin Hanzal type of rental package? Sure. Is he worth more? I don't think so.

 

[aufheben]

I continue to not find myself completely sold on him actually finishing that high though.

For starters, if he did, that would actually mark a career high. There seems to be talk about Hayes as if he's been a consistent 25 goal, 50 point player, but he's never actually hit that 50 point level and has only topped 17 goals once. This year he is on pace for exactly 50 points --- primarily based on 6 points in his last 5 games. Prior to that I think he was on pace for about 35 --- which would've been a career low.

So if we split the difference between potential career lows (including his current goal pace), and potential career highs, we end up with just about where he's always been --- around 17 goals and 45 points.

That's a good player; a very good third line center. But I feel like there continues to be a narrative to push him a little higher than he actually is.

Sure, my point was really about Howden. 45+ points is a pretty big deal for a rookie, although I realize Hayes ironically did the same thing, and Stepan.

 

[NYRKing]

See, I think he's overrated around here. He scored 25 goals exactly once and, since he's more of a playmaker and last season had more goals than assists, that's a pretty good indication that his goal total was the result of circumstantial success. Hayes is a better player, but think about Brian Boyle in 2010-11. Same concept.

He's 59th in the league in P/G over the last two seasons among 198 centers who have played 60 or more games. Admittedly, some of those players probably aren't playing center regularly, but are listed as centers. 55th in P/60 in the same period of time, all situations. Among forwards with at least 500 5v5 minutes, he is 116th out of 456 players in P/60 at 5v5 over those 2 years.

This is a very good player, but not a special one. He's on that cusp between 2nd and 3rd line centers where you legitimately make the case that he's clearly a 2nd liner on a team like the Rangers, but a 3rd liner on a lot of better teams. In other words, he's going to put up around 50 points when he's getting 2nd line minutes in cases where teams don't have better options, but will put up low 40s when getting 3rd line minutes in cases where teams do have better options.

Is that player worth a Martin Hanzal type of rental package? Sure. Is he worth more? I don't think so.

It will be very interesting to see the return on him. Very difficult to predict. He's not a scoring threat but a great passer, very good defensively, big-bodied center, entering the prime of his career, and has a consistent work-ethic. It will really come down to the market at the deadline, but I see a 1st and a B prospect. I can't think of similar young Centers on the market this year. A lot of wingers, but not alot of centers.

 

[Tawnos]

It will be very interesting to see the return on him. Very difficult to predict. He's not a scoring threat but a great passer, very good defensively, big-bodied center, entering the prime of his career, and has a consistent work-ethic. It will really come down to the market at the deadline, but I see a 1st and a B prospect. I can't think of similar young Centers on the market this year. A lot of wingers, but not alot of centers.

I think it will be more along the lines of 1+2+B prospect, but yeah.

Something people need to keep in mind too, regarding Hayes being a 2nd or 3rd line C... whatever he is with the Rangers, he's likely to be a 3C among the teams who are in the market, so his value will be more along the 3C lines anyway.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Disagree. I think he's very tradeable to the right team, with retention of course.

What team

 

[aufheben]

No, I would hope McQuaid but the short term target would probably be Claesson. Less commitment and better play. It wouldn't be a move for assets on my end. I want to free up the log jam. Anaheim is looking for a stop gap until the injury bug passes. I don't see a move to improve the team, but a move to stop the bleeding.

The Ducks are weak on the left side. Personally I am totally against trading Claesson at the moment, he looks like the closest thing the Rangers have had to another Michael Sauer.

I don’t think Brendan Smith is an easy fit there. Even salary retained I don’t know how the Ducks would fit in Fowler when he comes back, and even still, Smith is on the books for another 2 seasons, and even stiller, he has the 15-team trade list now, which becomes 10-teams next season.

I don’t think they have much in the way of cap dumps, just Patrick Eaves I guess. No 2019 3rd & 7th round picks. Murray did trade for Bieksa though lol

Side note: I disagree with Smith having a poor season. He had that one huge f***-up against Detroit the other day.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

The Ducks are weak on the left side. Personally I am totally against trading Claesson at the moment, he looks like the closest thing the Rangers have had to another Michael Sauer.

I don’t think Brendan Smith is an easy fit there. Even salary retained I don’t know how the Ducks would fit in Fowler when he comes back, and even still, Smith is on the books for another 2 seasons, and even stiller, he has the 15-team trade list now, which becomes 10-teams next season.

I don’t think they have much in the way of cap dumps, just Patrick Eaves I guess. No 2019 3rd & 7th round picks. Murray did trade for Bieksa though lol

Side note: I disagree with Smith having a poor season. He had that one huge ****-up against Detroit the other day.

Smith is carried by Shatty. I would love to jettison Smith and get out his commitment long term and have Claesson play with Shatty, those 2 have been a real good pairing.

As for Claesson being Sauer, he's impressed me with some of the breakouts he's made, like this one. Most dman chip off window there but he held onto it and made a great play.



He's a journeyman bottom pairing guy right now so Anaheim probably wouldn't give anythign other than a late round pick for him. Would rather hang onto him and see if he can do these things more consistently and see if he can be anything more.

 

[Off Sides]

Claesson I'd actually consider keeping, he's 25, his next contract is likely going to be cheap, and while his production is not likely to ever be very good he is a pretty decent, solid but unspectacular type player in my opinion.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Claesson is a fine 6-7.

He is what Staal should be at a fraction of the price

 

[Edge]

Sure, my point was really about Howden. 45+ points is a pretty big deal for a rookie, although I realize Hayes ironically did the same thing, and Stepan.

I think 45 points for Howden is possible. The question becomes where he goes from there. You have those guys who come in at an NHL-ready level, and it can become easy to project what they'll be with a few additional years under their belt, only to find that the growth is somewhat modest because they came in closer to what they were going to be.

Having said that, I projected Howden as a 50-55 point player at his peak and would love it if he managed to reach even higher levels.

 

[True Blue]

Disagree. I think he's very tradeable to the right team, with retention of course.

His play may have been better, but it has hardly been great. Considering his salary and its length, what team are you trading him to and how much are you retaining?

 

[True Blue]

Personally I am totally against trading Claesson at the moment, he looks like the closest thing the Rangers have had to another Michael Sauer.

You think that highly of him?

 

[Kovalev27]

I don't see much of a reason to move smith at this point. first off doubt anyone wants him. secondly he's not blocking anyone. Quinn is sitting him for claesson right now. neither lindgren nor hajek is really knocking down the doors yet to get up here. he's a fine veteran dman just does some stupid shit sometimes. he's fine. we haven't had many injuries yet especially on the back end. he'll come prove useful and maybe build up his trade value with a year or two left on his deal. more so than now

 

[Off Sides]

Claesson is a fine 6-7.

He is what Staal should be at a fraction of the price

That is kind of why I'd consider keeping him and maybe extending him, a cheap 3rd pair defender is one less they need to figure out. If a prospect over takes him it's not going to be, he has giant contract, clause, and is a leader, he'd just be replaced and likely traded at that point.

 

[SA16]

Hayes has been ~45 point player 3 years already playing 13,16:30,17:20 mins a game. He also missed a few games each year (obviously would have had 50 the year he has 49 in 76 games). Now he is in the 19-20 min range. Most of the extra ice time is from the PP (averaging 2:22 this year. Previous career high was 1:32). He has also been shooting in a bit of bad luck this year or he could have even more points (shooting 3.5% at 5v5 when he is usually around 12). If he were to play a full 82 games and didn't get traded I would be very surprised if he did not hit 50 points.

 

[aufheben]

You think that highly of him?

Moreso his style. I would like the Rangers to keep using him, even if it’s rotating with Smith. Seems like a pretty smart defenseman, and is not seriously lacking skill or anything. Focuses entirely on defense, just solid plays, nothing frantic. He’s not old, was on the same WJC team with Zibanejad, spent a good deal of time with Erik Karlsson last season. RFA after this season too.

Nothing wrong with one more Swede on the team lol

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I don't see much of a reason to move smith at this point. first off doubt anyone wants him. secondly he's not blocking anyone. Quinn is sitting him for claesson right now. neither lindgren nor hajek is really knocking down the doors yet to get up here. he's a fine veteran dman just does some stupid **** sometimes. he's fine. we haven't had many injuries yet especially on the back end. he'll come prove useful and maybe build up his trade value with a year or two left on his deal. more so than now

If someone will take Smith you absolutely have to trade him, I doubt there is anyone looking for him though with his contract.

 

[bobbop]

Disagree. I think he's very tradeable to the right team, with retention of course.

No chance.

And no chance he accepts a trade in season. He has a family and a NMC. Maybe in the offseason.

 

[bobbop]

Right now, Hayes is playing better than his stats. Which is one reason I suspect he is in demand. I would assume interested parties are scouting him heavily. On a good team he's a third line center. There are several teams that would be just fine with that. You can go deep into the playoffs with three good centers.