Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV

[Gardner McKay]

We might need Nylander more than any other team, but unfortunately, other teams have more attractive assets for Toronto to trade him for.

What? The Rangers have (arguably) one of the top 5 prospect pools in the league. They have guys like Zucc and Kreider who would be great fits to replace Nylander for a team that is looking to win now.

We have extremely attractive assets. It is about whether Gorton believes that WN is the player that is worth giving up those assets.

 

[Trxjw]

I think Pionk has a lot of potential but I have a hard time seeing him as a centerpiece for Nylander. Nylander is a very good building block but we just don't have the pieces to acquire him.

Carolina just makes too much sense. I think all of this speculation in the media is bunk and this had always been a staring match between the Leafs and Canes.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

What? The Rangers have (arguably) one of the top 5 prospect pools in the league. They have guys like Zucc and Kreider who would be great fits to replace Nylander for a team that is looking to win now.

We have extremely attractive assets. It is about whether Gorton believes that WN is the player that is worth giving up those assets.

We may think the team has attractive assets, and Gorton may think so, but the person that counts is Dubas, and I wouldn't trade Nylander for someone like Zucc or Kreider (+ whatever else would be needed)

The best offer Toronto is going to get is from Carolina. If it's true that Pesce is on the table, I'd take him + a small forward add all day. He fits them like a glove. Top pairing defensively sound RD who is 23 and signed for 6 more years for peanuts.

The offers aren't going to get much better than that

 

[Inferno]

I think Pionk has a lot of potential but I have a hard time seeing him as a centerpiece for Nylander. Nylander is a very good building block but we just don't have the pieces to acquire him.

Carolina just makes too much sense. I think all of this speculation in the media is bunk and this had always been a staring match between the Leafs and Canes.

Pretty much agreed with all this. I love putting together wacko trade proposals more than most but honestly the fit really isn't there. Carolina makes a ton of sense.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Nylander is running out of time. It'll be December 1st before you know it. He got offered a very fair extension and he passed up on it. **** him. Pastrnak signed an extension last year. 6 years 6.66M. Nylander wants more than that.

I don't care how talented this kid is. I hope he keeps this nonsense up and misses the season.

 

[Tawnos]

Nylander is running out of time. It'll be December 1st before you know it. He got offered a very fair extension and he passed up on it. **** him. Pastrnak signed an extension last year. 6 years 6.66M. Nylander wants more than that.

I don't care how talented this kid is. I hope he keeps this nonsense up and misses the season.

Problem is that Pastrnak signed a bad deal worth far less than he is. Can't blame a player for not wanting to do that.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Pastrnak signed a contract worth 8.89% of the cap coming off a 35-35 year. If you adjust that percentage to the current cap, that breaks down to just about a $7M AAV for Nylander. With the expected cap bump next year, I’d say he’s easily worth $7M.

 

[Gardner McKay]

We may think the team has attractive assets, and Gorton may think so, but the person that counts is Dubas, and I wouldn't trade Nylander for someone like Zucc or Kreider (+ whatever else would be needed)

The best offer Toronto is going to get is from Carolina. If it's true that Pesce is on the table, I'd take him + a small forward add all day. He fits them like a glove. Top pairing defensively sound RD who is 23 and signed for 6 more years for peanuts.

The offers aren't going to get much better than that

While I respect your opinion, I 100% disagree. Dubas has a goal, to win a cup. That is how he will be judged. He has all the pieces in place right now, except a Nylander or a WN replacement. Kreider will easily put up 30 playing with the talent on Toronto and comes at a paltry $4.625 cap hit, compared to the $7-8 million Willie is rumored to want (or at least, last I saw).

A guy like Kreider + one of our youngsters would be a great deal for them.

With that being said a deal for Pesce does make a ton of sense. But that doesn't change the fact that the Rangers do have the pieces to make the deal happen and that was my original point. Saying teams have more attractive pieces is an untrue statement. When it comes to prospects as well as expendable, talented top 6 players on good contracts, we have as much as any team in the league and I believe this is a case of us undervaluing our own players and overvaluing other teams players.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Problem is that Pastrnak signed a bad deal worth far less than he is. Can't blame a player for not wanting to do that.

Sure, but he also hasn't produced as much as Pastrnak. Regardless, you're a 22 year old kid. Sign a bridge and go out and earn your next payday like every one else in the league.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I think Pionk has a lot of potential but I have a hard time seeing him as a centerpiece for Nylander. Nylander is a very good building block but we just don't have the pieces to acquire him.

Carolina just makes too much sense. I think all of this speculation in the media is bunk and this had always been a staring match between the Leafs and Canes.

sadly that says alot.

as much as we want to believe we have talent here, our talent is pending. marinating if you will.

the guys here- specifically the D, just arent that desirable because.... they just arent talented young players.

 

[Trxjw]

sadly that says alot.

as much as we want to believe we have talent here, our talent is pending. marinating if you will.

the guys here- specifically the D, just arent that desirable because.... they just arent talented young players.

I don't think it's a lack of talent but timing. A guy like K'Andre Miller could very well be worth a Nylander in the future but right now he isn't. A Pionk+ for Nylander deal could look like robbery for the Leafs in a few years but right now it looks like the opposite.

The talent is building. Just takes time.

 

[Tawnos]

Sure, but he also hasn't produced as much as Pastrnak. Regardless, you're a 22 year old kid. Sign a bridge and go out and earn your next payday like every one else in the league.

Most top youngsters aren't signing bridge deals anymore, including Pastrnak. So following "everyone else in the league" would be doing what Nylander is doing.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Pastrnak signed a contract worth 8.89% of the cap coming off a 35-35 year. If you adjust that percentage to the current cap, that breaks down to just about a $7M AAV for Nylander. With the expected cap bump next year, I’d say he’s easily worth $7M.

Pretty sure they offered him 7M as well if I'm not mistaken. Pastrnak is without question a superior player and has produced more than Nylander and played about 70 more games than Nylander despite being the same age.

Listen, I get why players hold out. In many cases I agree with them. This situation here though is ugly, and I think Nylander needs to get his ass on the ice and stop squabbling over a couple 100k.

 

[Tawnos]

Pastrnak signed a contract worth 8.89% of the cap coming off a 35-35 year. If you adjust that percentage to the current cap, that breaks down to just about a $7M AAV for Nylander. With the expected cap bump next year, I’d say he’s easily worth $7M.

Nylander is worth a 10% contract, judging by the other 10% contracts out there. So is/was Pastrnak, if not more.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Most top youngsters aren't signing bridge deals anymore, including Pastrnak. So following "everyone else in the league" would be doing what Nylander is doing.

Everyone else in the league is not holding out for more money. That's Nylander. Defend him if you want, I still see him as a piece of ****.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

While I respect your opinion, I 100% disagree. Dubas has a goal, to win a cup. That is how he will be judged. He has all the pieces in place right now, except a Nylander or a WN replacement. Kreider will easily put up 30 playing with the talent on Toronto and comes at a paltry $4.625 cap hit, compared to the $7-8 million Willie is rumored to want (or at least, last I saw).

A guy like Kreider + one of our youngsters would be a great deal for them.

With that being said a deal for Pesce does make a ton of sense. But that doesn't change the fact that the Rangers do have the pieces to make the deal happen and that was my original point. Saying teams have more attractive pieces is an untrue statement. When it comes to prospects as well as expendable, talented top 6 players on good contracts, we have as much as any team in the league and I believe this is a case of us undervaluing our own players and overvaluing other teams players.

Kreider would be great for them but then they have the same problem again in the summer of 2020. A forward that wants an 7-8 million dollar contract that may or may not be worth it. If they're pushing all their chips in for this year and next and trying to win, it makes sense, but I don't know.

I'd also take into consideration the ask from Toronto. They're allegedly looking for a package of top 4 D (RD) and top 9 winger in return for Nylander. But the main piece is going to be a RD around the same age as Nylander. The Rangers don't have that guy. I like Pionk but he's a flash in the pan at the moment, and not someone Toronto is going to bet their young star on.

I guess it depends on the package of players the Rangers would trade, but based on what Toronto wants/needs, there isn't a good fit there in my opinion

 

[NYR Viper]

Everyone else in the league is not holding out for more money. That's Nylander. Defend him if you want, I still see him as a piece of ****.

Why make it personal? He's making a business decision and none of us have all of the information. They may be forcing him to take a bridge deal and he won't have any part of it.

 

[Leetch3]

if we had the RHD that toronto is looking for that guy would be the most untouchable guy in our organization.

 

[Tawnos]

Everyone else in the league is not holding out for more money. That's Nylander. Defend him if you want, I still see him as a piece of ****.

Do you see GMs as the same when they try to put the screws to a player?

 

[bobbop]

If Torinto is fixated on a right hand defenseman, I just don't know where they are going to find (close to) equal value. I've never been a fan of Pesce. I'm not sure about Montour. Tough aisle to be shopping in.

 

[Tawnos]

If Torinto is fixated on a right hand defenseman, I just don't know where they are going to find (close to) equal value. I've never been a fan of Pesce. I'm not sure about Montour. Tough aisle to be shopping in.

RD is probably the most valuable position in the league, aside from maybe center. It's debatable between those two.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Kreider would be great for them but then they have the same problem again in the summer of 2020. A forward that wants an 7-8 million dollar contract that may or may not be worth it. If they're pushing all their chips in for this year and next and trying to win, it makes sense, but I don't know.

I'd also take into consideration the ask from Toronto. They're allegedly looking for a package of top 4 D (RD) and top 9 winger in return for Nylander. But the main piece is going to be a RD around the same age as Nylander. The Rangers don't have that guy. I like Pionk but he's a flash in the pan at the moment, and not someone Toronto is going to bet their young star on.

I guess it depends on the package of players the Rangers would trade, but based on what Toronto wants/needs, there isn't a good fit there in my opinion

I think Kreider settles on a $6 million contract or so. I don't know that he can ask for 7-8. But if you're Dubas, you sign Tavares to that deal because you know your time is now. At least, that is how I think of it.

Regarding the bottom two paragraphs, crazier things have happened but I do agree that they are not likely to bet on Pionk, even though Pionk was .5 ppg last year and is improving on that this year. However, we are 16 days away from the deadline. If Nylander sits out the entire season, Dubas looks really, really bad. He has essentially wasted a year. There is going to be a time where he has to make a decision on some of the deals on the table and if that time has not already come, it will be here soon. Dubas is losing bargaining power with each passing day. Deals don't stay on the table forever.

It is like the Trouba situation. What did Cheveldayjackass want for Trouba? An equal RD. There aren't many in the league and eventually there came a time where he had to make a decision.

And I say all of this as someone who is advocating for us to STAY AWAY from Nylander.

We will see soon enough.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Everyone else in the league is not holding out for more money. That's Nylander. Defend him if you want, I still see him as a piece of ****.

It is a business decision. I personally believe it is a very, very poor one but it is allowed and it is the path he is taking. IMO that doesn't make him a piece of ****.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Why make it personal? He's making a business decision and none of us have all of the information. They may be forcing him to take a bridge deal and he won't have any part of it.

The bridge deal worked out pretty well for Kucherov. There are multiple reports that Toronto has offered him 6 years and 6.5m+ too.

 

[Tawnos]

The bridge deal worked out pretty well for Kucherov. There are multiple reports that Toronto has offered him 6 years and 6.5m+ too.

That isn't a bridge deal.