Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV (To trade or not to trade is the question)

[I Eat Crow]

It's like this.

Foundation pieces: Fox, Shesterkin, Schneider, Perreault, Cuylle, Jones (but barely)

Players with value that should be on the block: Kreider, Panarin, Trochek, Chytil, Lindgren, Miller, Quick

Players with negative value that should be launched into the sun: Zibanejad

IDGAF: Vesey, Carrick, Vakkanainen, Borgen

It's time. This core isn't going to bring a Cup. You can kick start the rebuild by making some tough calls and waving the white flag on the next two seasons by trading Panarin, Kreider, Trochek, Chytil, and Miller. Pieces with value that don't fit the team's plans moving forward. The IDGAF guys can bring back 4 to 5 day two picks over the course of the next two drafts. You need to find a way to get Zibanejad off the team also.

I agree with the consensus in the PGT that they need to find a way to find indisputable, elite talent. It works sometimes like with the Devils. But Buffalo is the other example of how it can still fail with Dahlin, Power, and Eichel.

Trade the guys with value this deadline and this summer and kick start a new era. This one is over.

 

[DanielBrassard]

It's like this.

Foundation pieces: Fox, Shesterkin, Schneider, Perreault, Cuylle, Jones (but barely)

Players with value that should be on the block: Kreider, Panarin, Trochek, Chytil, Lindgren, Miller, Quick

Players with negative value that should be launched into the sun: Zibanejad

IDGAF: Vesey, Carrick, Vakkanainen, Borgen

It's time. This core isn't going to bring a Cup. You can kick start the rebuild by making some tough calls and waving the white flag on the next two seasons by trading Panarin, Kreider, Trochek, Chytil, and Miller. Pieces with value that don't fit the team's plans moving forward. The IDGAF guys can bring back 4 to 5 day two picks over the course of the next two drafts. You need to find a way to get Zibanejad off the team also.

I agree with the consensus in the PGT that they need to find a way to find indisputable, elite talent. It works sometimes like with the Devils. But Buffalo is the other example of how it can still fail with Dahlin, Power, and Eichel.

Trade the guys with value this deadline and this summer and kick start a new era. This one is over.

I agree with the sentiment but honestly outside of Fox and Perreault there are no pieces in the organization who would be off limits for me. Fox because he’s still elite and Perreault because he’s the only prospect who has 1st line upside. I’d like to keep Berard as well.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Best case scenario now is free fall, trading Lindgren and Kreider at the deadline.

Panarin should irrefutably, unequivocally, also be approached about waiving at the deadline. I'm looking at a team like Dallas that's in a "win now" mindset looking to make a move to try and come out of the West and try to win a Cup.

Bischel and Stankoven for Panarin at 50% retained for this year and next. Get picks back for Kreider, Lindgren, Vesey, and Borgen.

 

[McRanger92]

It's like this.

Foundation pieces: Fox, Shesterkin, Schneider, Perreault, Cuylle, Jones (but barely)

Players with value that should be on the block: Kreider, Panarin, Trochek, Chytil, Lindgren, Miller, Quick

Players with negative value that should be launched into the sun: Zibanejad

IDGAF: Vesey, Carrick, Vakkanainen, Borgen

It's time. This core isn't going to bring a Cup. You can kick start the rebuild by making some tough calls and waving the white flag on the next two seasons by trading Panarin, Kreider, Trochek, Chytil, and Miller. Pieces with value that don't fit the team's plans moving forward. The IDGAF guys can bring back 4 to 5 day two picks over the course of the next two drafts. You need to find a way to get Zibanejad off the team also.

I agree with the consensus in the PGT that they need to find a way to find indisputable, elite talent. It works sometimes like with the Devils. But Buffalo is the other example of how it can still fail with Dahlin, Power, and Eichel.

Trade the guys with value this deadline and this summer and kick start a new era. This one is over.

How has it worked with the Devils? They missed the playoffs last year and have never even gone to an ECF.

 

[bleedblue94]

Bunting is a good player with some bite which people will love.

Bunting is a complete bitch. He's a Sean Avery wannabe, but lacks Avery's "toughness"

Their second contention window was when *this* happened but Kakko, Laf, Chytil, Miller, and Schneider all stepped up into top roles on the club.

None of that happened. It's over.

Both can be true. They aren't rebuilding but they can't move forward with that group carrying on like a new core. So they will probably try to restructure on the fly whether that's the correct thing to do or not...

 

[I Eat Crow]

I agree with the sentiment but honestly outside of Fox and Perreault there are no pieces in the organization who would be off limits for me. Fox because he’s still elite and Perreault because he’s the only prospect who has 1st line upside. I’d like to keep Berard as well.

Berard I didn't count because I don't consider him full time yet, but definitely. Sykora too. Keep those guys with piss and vinegar to their game. I was in favor of trading Othmann, but now I'm inclined to keep him unless it's for a franchise talent like Tkachuk that may become available.

Edstrom I'm "meh" on. He skates well but he's been a bunch of nothing since he made the team out of camp. I realize I forgot Lafreniere. I don't know on him. In the right deal, I think I'd deal him, but he's probably going nowhere.

How has it worked with the Devils? They missed the playoffs last year and have never even gone to an ECF.

That's going to change this year unless a team like Tampa or Washington matches up well against them and plays spoiler.

 

[CasusBelli]

Management and coaching staff need to go.

 

[bleedblue94]

I legitimately don’t know what this team is gonna do. I can’t f***ing believe Drury have Igor that contract.

Whether you think it is right or not the org is ripping out it's most marketable players and the team has been competitive due to goaltending. Dolan isn't going to can Drury for resigning the biggest thing that keeps this team competitive despite its flawed roster construction.

The thing is some fan aim for a cup, a business aims to keep the corporate machine rolling. In all likelihood they aren't going. To gut things again and go through that. This season is an embarrassment enough, I would imagine the mandate is to fix this mess as quickly as possible.

What "fix" means to you, me, Dolan, and Drury can all be different things but at the end of the day it matters what the owner defines it to be more than anyone else. So far he is backing Drury but that may very much matter on how Drury navigates the next round of exiles.

My assumption (to be clear this is not knowledge) is that Dolan is going to let Drury process the cleaning of the locker room and depending how that does he will allow him to present a new direction and pursue it. If Drury cannot manage this cleansing then he will be gone. Dolan does not respect weakness, so that may very well be playing into him having patience with the pr shit show over the past month, the fact it's been a shit show but his manager has flexed his muscle and gotten his goals done. if the mess happened with trouba and Drury didn't get what he wanted out of it (trouba gone and salary off the books) then things might be different.

 

[jaywills1020]

It's like this.

Foundation pieces: Fox, Shesterkin, Schneider, Perreault, Cuylle, Jones (but barely)

Players with value that should be on the block: Kreider, Panarin, Trochek, Chytil, Lindgren, Miller, Quick

Players with negative value that should be launched into the sun: Zibanejad

IDGAF: Vesey, Carrick, Vakkanainen, Borgen

It's time. This core isn't going to bring a Cup. You can kick start the rebuild by making some tough calls and waving the white flag on the next two seasons by trading Panarin, Kreider, Trochek, Chytil, and Miller. Pieces with value that don't fit the team's plans moving forward. The IDGAF guys can bring back 4 to 5 day two picks over the course of the next two drafts. You need to find a way to get Zibanejad off the team also.

I agree with the consensus in the PGT that they need to find a way to find indisputable, elite talent. It works sometimes like with the Devils. But Buffalo is the other example of how it can still fail with Dahlin, Power, and Eichel.

Trade the guys with value this deadline and this summer and kick start a new era. This one is over.

I know you said “barely” but Jones is a “foundational piece?” He is a dime a dozen undersized defenseman who’s offensive game is not good enough to make up for his lack of everything else. I’d throw him on the players to trade list.

 

[McRanger92]

Berard I didn't count because I don't consider him full time yet, but definitely. Sykora too. Keep those guys with piss and vinegar to their game. I was in favor of trading Othmann, but now I'm inclined to keep him unless it's for a franchise talent like Tkachuk that may become available.

Edstrom I'm "meh" on. He skates well but he's been a bunch of nothing since he made the team out of camp. I realize I forgot Lafreniere. I don't know on him. In the right deal, I think I'd deal him, but he's probably going nowhere.

That's going to change this year unless a team like Tampa or Washington matches up well against them and plays spoiler.

I mean, we'll see. They had to trade a 1st for Markstrom and give Dillon and Pesce 10 mil in cap space to be able to keep the puck out of their net. They also didnt feel the need to blow it up after taking a step back. We dont support Lafreniere or Fox on this ice so obviously they've struggled compared to the Devils young core. Adam Fox has more accolades than Jack Hughes, we're just content to let him get the shit kicked out of him playing with Ryan Lindgren.

 

[bleedblue94]

Short?
Our best prospect is a top 10 in the nhl according to most sources.
We have 2 defenseman who are nhl projected.
One additional forward who might make it.
For a team that should’ve been a playoff team again, with youth on the roster, that’s a deep prospect pool.

When you have roster spots locked in you don’t need 15 prospects, you need 5-6.


There are valid reasons to shit on Drury.
But his prospect pool isn’t really one of them, nor is his drafting. I wish he’d take centers early but the boards have fallen in a way that we’d have railed at him if he did.

This would make sense if his roster wasn't old and he didn't know it. He has known that this core was all aging at the same timeline. He's done a good job aligning a bunch of contracts to end at about the same point, but the plan to backfill those spots had to be better than signing ufas, and he has no tradable assets to acquire players other than those ones you listed that you're already planning to have in the roster. Trading all those 2nd round picks doesn't seem like a big deal until you realize you have no organization depth.

 

[McRanger92]

What moves need to be made in order to put Adam Fox, Alexis Lafreniere and Igor Shesterkin in the best position to maximize their abilities? This is the question the Rangers need to be asking themselves. They have plenty of talent that has value around the league to trade.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Panarin should irrefutably, unequivocally, also be approached about waiving at the deadline. I'm looking at a team like Dallas that's in a "win now" mindset looking to make a move to try and come out of the West and try to win a Cup.

Bischel and Stankoven for Panarin at 50% retained for this year and next. Get picks back for Kreider, Lindgren, Vesey, and Borgen.

I’m sorry bischel and stankoven for panarin at 50 percent retained. That is one of the worst returns I’ve ever seen for a superstar. If we are trading him at 50 percent retained I want 2 firsts, their top prospect and more.

 

[bleedblue94]

The sad thing that is happening around this team is you have battlers that are starting to become defeated. Trocheck is still in. He's still battling but how much more can a couple of players keep fighting without the rest of their teammates in the fight with them? How long until the ones battling just give in? This is all cultural

What moves need to be made in order to put Adam Fox, Alexis Lafreniere and Igor Shesterkin in the best position to maximize their abilities? This is the question the Rangers need to be asking themselves. They have plenty of talent that has value around the league to trade.

In fox's case it's a trade somewhere else...

 

[McRanger92]

The sad thing that is happening around this team is you have battlers that are starting to become defeated. Trocheck is still in. He's still battling but how much more can a couple of players keep fighting without the rest of their teammates in the fight with them? How long until the ones battling just give in? This is all cultural


In fox's case it's a trade somewhere else...

No. Get him a a real partner before you trade him for magic beans. We know his upside.

 

[Machinehead]

What moves need to be made in order to put Adam Fox, Alexis Lafreniere and Igor Shesterkin in the best position to maximize their abilities? This is the question the Rangers need to be asking themselves. They have plenty of talent that has value around the league to trade.

Fox needs a partner.

Lafreniere needs a better NHL player who can pretend to be him.

 

[bleedblue94]

No. Get him a a real partner before you trade him for magic beans. We know his upside.

We also know his issues, they aren't going to get any better when he turns 27 in a couple months. This is supposed to be his prime, he is regressing. His skating is going to continue to get worse and his already as strong as a pool noodle. This isn't going to get any better and this summer is your last chance to move on until the nmc kicks in.

 

[I Eat Crow]

I’m sorry bischel and stankoven for panarin at 50 percent retained. That is one of the worst returns I’ve ever seen for a superstar. If we are trading him at 50 percent retained I want 2 firsts, their top prospect and more.

A top 6 forward and 21 year old defenseman with legitimate top pairing potential is definitely a fair return.

 

[stan the caddy]

Wow, now we're trading Fox, our best defenseman since Leetch, because he's too old at 27?

 

[Longterm]

lol, youve described a 5 year cycle. Ive been a fan since about 1981, so multiply all that by 8-9 times and you’ll come to appreciate being a NYR fan, strap in for the long haul.

Could be worse, try 1961. I still haven't gotten over Ratelle and Park being traded, and now this.

 

[NYR Viper]

So where are we trading Kreider? I doubt he waives for Buffalo.

Dallas

 

[IDvsEGO]

This would make sense if his roster wasn't old and he didn't know it. He has known that this core was all aging at the same timeline. He's done a good job aligning a bunch of contracts to end at about the same point, but the plan to backfill those spots had to be better than signing ufas, and he has no tradable assets to acquire players other than those ones you listed that you're already planning to have in the roster. Trading all those 2nd round picks doesn't seem like a big deal until you realize you have no organization depth.

The thing is though, the roster isn't really that "old"
The oldest in the top 6 (at the beginning of the season) are panarin, smith, and ck at 33.
Mika is 31
Trocheck is 31

We had multiple players in our top 9 in their early 20's (upside of their development curve)

Our defense the oldest player was again Trouba at 30.
Multiple players in their early 20s.

Mika's slide down at 30/31 is insane.
Ck's slide down at 33 is still crazy fast considering his numbers last year and especially 2 years ago.

Mika's numbers when he signed that deal were fundamentally very strong. It was both even strength production and PP production.
Ck's 50+ goal season was an aberration but still was a solid year even with accounting for the pp anomaly.

I get that the discussion is on the team being old, but the theory was ( and it was sound) that they had another year, and then you could slowly build younger pieces, you would be able to have younger players slowly fill in rolls, and Mika might slow down, but playing with high end wingers could keep him generating.

The depth wasn't needed if the team didn't somehow drop off a massive cliff, which no one expected.

 

[NYR Viper]

Getting more draft picks and prospects doesn’t mean the team needs to wait for them all to mature or even be chosen. Acquire assets that can be used when the opportunity presents itself. It’s the same thing with cap space. Use it as a weapon

 

[NYR Viper]

This is what I mean by using cap space as a weapon:

Dallas wants to go for it this year and next. They just signed Dumba who hasn’t worked out at all. $3.5m for this year and next.

Kreider af $3.5m cap hit for this year and next for Dumba + Bourque + DAL 1st ‘25 + DAL 1st ‘26

It’s an even cap swap for Dallas. The Rangers take on Dumba and gain 2 1st’s

 

[LOFIN]

This is what I mean by using cap space as a weapon:

Dallas wants to go for it this year and next. They just signed Dumba who hasn’t worked out at all. $3.5m for this year and next.

Kreider af $3.5m cap hit for this year and next for Dumba + Bourque + DAL 1st ‘25 + DAL 1st ‘26

It’s an even cap swap for Dallas. The Rangers take on Dumba and gain 2 1st’s

The problem here is that I highly doubt Drury is looking for futures. He might've convinced Dolan not to fire him now, but he's not going into another rebuild and still be in charge of this thing lol.