Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV (To trade or not to trade is the question)

[CLW]

Because in some peoples minds. Being a contender means that you have to actually win the cup.

What's the difference between wanking and having sex?

 

[Machinehead]

That’s fine. Personally, I feel like the early signs are starting to show (in his skating, only) at this point. And I’m also rounding him up to 27 because his birthday is soon. And it isn’t simply about Fox at 28/29. We’re gonna win in that very first year after retooling? That’s what age he will be when the next window even begins. My concern is STARTING the next window of contention relying on a slow 29 year old to not get any slower or worn down physically as an undersized guy with a lot of deep playoff runs already on his body.

Ok, here's another way to look at it.

You let it cook for two years. Like I said, I want to make informed decisions. If we still suck, then you're staring at "ok, this guy is about to be 30, we still suck, and apparently a few things haven't gone right."

You don't think we still have a ton of value there? Hell, it might go up! Right now, it's four years at $9.5m. That's a commitment. The cap is still at poverty levels. Two years from now, the cap is going to be way up, and some f***ing clown is gonna say "oh, well if I'm getting Fox for two playoff runs, I'm winning the Cup both times" and he's not gonna care.

I definitely wouldn't do it now because it's something you can feasibly do later.

 

[Filip Chytil]

One of these days someone is going to write a book about this one season.

ChatGPT has offered us a prologue:

The New York Rangers had always prided themselves on their camaraderie and team-first mentality, but when news broke that General Manager Chris Drury had traded away Barclay Goodrow to the San Jose Sharks, the bond between key players—Chris Kreider, Mika Zibanejad, Adam Fox, and Jacob Trouba—began to crack. The decision to offload Goodrow, a gritty veteran who had been a stabilizing force in the locker room and on the ice, sent shockwaves through the team. Kreider, Zibanejad, Fox, and Trouba, all of whom had forged a deep respect and friendship with Goodrow, were livid.

They felt betrayed. Goodrow wasn’t just another player; he was a locker room leader, someone who had sacrificed personal statistics for the betterment of the team. Drury’s decision seemed callous and shortsighted. It wasn’t just a trade—it was a message that the sacrifices of players like Goodrow didn’t matter. The players felt the GM had undermined the very core values that had brought them success and unity.

In the days following the trade, whispers spread through the Rangers' locker room. There was talk of rebellion, not just against the trade but against Drury himself. Kreider, with his leadership experience, took charge of the group, while Zibanejad and Trouba echoed the sentiments of the growing resentment. Adam Fox, normally the calm, collected one, couldn’t hold back his frustration either. Together, they concocted a plan, not just to salvage the season but to send a message that would shake the foundations of the organization.

They decided to actively tank the season. It wasn’t a decision made lightly, but they were driven by a desire to show Drury just how important Goodrow had been to the team's success, and how much the GM’s cold, calculated decision had affected their trust. Kreider, who had been a consistent leader on the ice, began to play with a lack of urgency. Zibanejad, usually a lethal goal-scorer, found himself misfiring and making mistakes he would never usually make. Fox, who was normally the Rangers' best defenseman, started to lose his poise in critical moments, and Trouba’s physical game turned reckless, committing costly penalties.

It was clear—this wasn’t just a slump. It was a protest.

The fans, initially confused by the uncharacteristic drop in performance, started to take notice. The media, too, caught wind of the Rangers' struggles, and soon rumors began to swirl that the team’s star players were intentionally underperforming. Behind closed doors, Kreider, Zibanejad, Fox, and Trouba discussed the ultimate goal: forcing Drury to face the consequences of his decision. Their hope was that if they sabotaged the season to the point where it became untenable, Drury would be forced out as GM.

Their actions spoke louder than words. The Rangers’ slide down the standings was swift and decisive. The team became a shell of its former self. Games that were once competitive became routs, and soon the once-promising season seemed to be slipping away from the Rangers' grasp. Drury, for all his attempts to shore up the roster, couldn’t reverse the tide.

As the season neared its conclusion and the Rangers found themselves out of playoff contention, Kreider, Zibanejad, and Fox knew their mission was nearly complete. The press, the fans, and the front office would soon have no choice but to acknowledge the team’s complete collapse. It wasn’t just about playing poorly—it was about sending a message. The Rangers’ leadership had made a bold stand against Drury's decision, one that had sent shockwaves through the franchise.

In the end, the season was a disaster, and the repercussions were felt in every corner of the organization. Drury’s job hung in the balance, and though the players knew they had sacrificed something greater than just wins and losses, they also knew they had sent a message that would echo for years. The future of the Rangers would depend on how the front office responded to the rebellion of its own players. Would Drury be fired, as Kreider, Zibanejad, Fox, and Trouba had hoped? Or would the GM double down on his choices, leaving the team forever fractured? Only time would tell.

 

[LokiDog]

I will say this - invigorating and civil discussion from everyone I’ve engaged with today. This board is truly what keeps me glued to this team when it would be really easy to just watch Stars games. But they don’t have the community we have here, so even when the team makes me wish murder was legal, you guys keep it fun.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I’m JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK

Never heard of you. Welcome to the NYR board! Interested in a Callahan jersey?

 

[Section311]

If you asked me if I would rather have 9 terrible/bad years and one guaranteed cup or 10 straight years of making the playoffs as a wild card with a low (but of course non-zero chance) of winning the cup I would sign up for option B every time.

Think most people would take the guaranteed cup. I would take 9 years of 0-82 and one cup then 10 years of going to the finals every year and losing.

 

[Machinehead]

Guys, we need to reign in the personal shit please.

 

[CLW]

That’s fine. Personally, I feel like the early signs are starting to show (in his skating, only) at this point. And I’m also rounding him up to 27 because his birthday is soon. And it isn’t simply about Fox at 28/29. We’re gonna win in that very first year after retooling? That’s what age he will be when the next window even begins. My concern is STARTING the next window of contention relying on a slow 29 year old to not get any slower or worn down physically as an undersized guy with a lot of deep playoff runs already on his body.

I agree with this. Fox's hockey IQ is godly nobody is arguing against that, but physically he is a 26/27 year old pushing 34. Do I trust his body to hold up for deep playoff runs to the point he is a cheat code all the way? No I don't. Obviously I could be wrong but what we saw last year is much more likely to be the future playoff Fox than not. Lindgren's already broken down. Fox is not far behind him simply because he is targeted and can't always get out of the way.

If Fox comes back from an off season all shiny and sprinkly and a step or two quicker, like his first couple of seasons, I'm happy to change my mind, but I'll believe that when I see it.

 

[Mike in Houston]

Again, it is reasonable to speculate Zib does waive if it is to VAN
and that VAN agrees to a trade fully retained for spare parts as I suggest

do that now and do it first

CK, again, there is a disconnect on yr part:
"Your argument is that no team will give value because of a vague rumor about a back injury, so we shouldn't trade him because he can rehab this supposed back injury. That's absurd. Kreider has one more season left after this one. He can easily be retained down to ~$4m per. He's scored between 40 and 50 goals for the last three seasons. He's got LOADS of playoff experience, most recently playing hero-ball with the hat trick against Carolina. Teams would EASILY give up a 1st and a very good prospect for two playoff runs with Kreider."

There are laws about disclosure of private medical info, so confirmation is not possible, but are you telling me CKs own representations are a lie?
And if teams factor that in, yes they will still pay a good, but not too heavy price

my pt is we should give CK mo time to heal, and see what we have after get rid of the others first

I am final on that
It is reasonable to spec

Regardless of injury or not, I will give Kreider the benefit of the doubt that he can rebound. Perhaps this is simply a lost year for the entire team. But I think he can do it and I have confidence that he will. He isn't the only one having a poor season. And it all just depends on how one decides what makes for a poor season and what doesn't.

I will always contend that he's unfairly hated by some in the fanbase. If you're here long enough as a homegrown player, you'll eventually become the villain. But it always go deeper with him.

I believe many thought Kreider would be something he was never going to be and they've disliked them for it ever since. They perceive he doesn't work hard night in and night out. Yet he's last to leave the ice at practice so he can practice his deflections and help others who want to practice them too.

He leads a group of young players across the league in offseason training regimens. He was helping Rempe just this past summer.

I have no idea what the hell is going on with him right now. I ain't going to speculate either. Not my place. I'd probably be wrong anyway. He was good last year despite Mika continuing on his descent. I have more confidence in Chris Kreider getting his game back than I do his BFF. That's for sure.

I hope he stays a Ranger forever. If he's traded then so be it. I'd be upset, but I'd eventually get over it.

 

[Mikachu93]

Fox relies less on his physical attributes than 99% of players in the league. What makes him great is his vision, hockey IQ and gap control. None of those things are at risk of declining in the next 5-6 years markedly enough to even CONSIDER trading him.

We have pined for an elite defenseman since Leetch and yet here he is and people want to get rid of him?

I'm cool with stripping this thing down to the studs but there's 5 pieces I do not touch right now. Fox, Igor, Lafreniere, Cuylle, Perreault.

Everyone else can go.

 

[Machinehead]

Regardless of injury or not, I will give Kreider the benefit of the doubt that he can rebound. Perhaps this is simply a lost year for the entire team. But I think he can do it and I have confidence that he will. He isn't the only one having a poor season. And it all just depends on how one decides what makes for a poor season and what doesn't.

I will always contend that he's unfairly hated by some in the fanbase. If you're here long enough as a homegrown player, you'll eventually become the villain. But it always go deeper with him.

I believe many thought Kreider would be something he was never going to be and they've disliked them for it ever since. They perceive he doesn't work hard night in and night out. Yet he's last to leave the ice at practice so he can practice his deflections and help others who want to practice them too.

He leads a group of young players across the league in offseason training regimens. He was helping Rempe just this past summer.

I have no idea what the hell is going on with him right now. I ain't going to speculate either. Not my place. I'd probably be wrong anyway. He was good last year despite Mika continuing on his descent. I have more confidence in Chris Kreider getting his game back than I do his BFF. That's for sure.

I hope he stays a Ranger forever. If he's traded then so be it. I'd be upset, but I'd eventually get over it.

I definitely think Kreider is hurt. However, I also think there's some legitimacy to his decline.

He's about to be 34, and unlike a guy like Fox, he does rely heavily on athleticism that he can't afford to lose too much of.

Also unlike Fox, I think there's a much more limited window in which Kreider has a lot of trade value.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Fox relies less on his physical attributes than 99% of players in the league. What makes him great is his vision, hockey IQ and gap control. None of those things are at risk of declining in the next 5-6 years markedly enough to even CONSIDER trading him.

We have pined for an elite defenseman since Leetch and yet here he is and people want to get rid of him?

I'm cool with stripping this thing down to the studs but there's 5 pieces I do not touch right now. Fox, Igor, Lafreniere, Cuylle, Perreault.

Everyone else can go.

I would keep Schneider. One of the few young dman they have that is still young. Rangers don’t have much young d. id keep Mancini. I’d trade Kakko for a young dman. Maybe Kakko to wild for one of their young dman that is in the same situation, in and out of the lineup. Sykora I would def not trade due to his work ethic. He scored some hard working goals in the AHL. That spreads throughout the team, at least one would think. he is still young. Fortescue I not trade either. He has potential. K’Andre Miller I would trade at the deadline or draft. Try to get another 1st round pick. If they got one for Skjei, they can for Miller.

 

[Siddi]

Just get rid of Drury and Lavi. Get Fox a actual NHL caliber partner. Get back to zone-D and I promise you this team will stop moping and actually start competing.

 

[LokiDog]

Fox relies less on his physical attributes than 99% of players in the league. What makes him great is his vision, hockey IQ and gap control. None of those things are at risk of declining in the next 5-6 years markedly enough to even CONSIDER trading him.

We have pined for an elite defenseman since Leetch and yet here he is and people want to get rid of him?

I'm cool with stripping this thing down to the studs but there's 5 pieces I do not touch right now. Fox, Igor, Lafreniere, Cuylle, Perreault.

Everyone else can go.

Again - there is a substantial difference between “wanting to get rid of him” and arguing that it may be the unpopular but pragmatic thing to do. The team will undoubtedly need at least one more season to rearrange the deck and get back to being competitive. That targets 26-27 as the “back on track” year. That season Fox will be 28/29. All I have said is that if Fox could net you a center with elite potential who is currently 22 (would be 24 in 26-27) that we may be better served with an elite 24 year old 1C when the next window is first opening than we would be with a 29 year old 1D. That is all. There is no “desire” to “get rid” of Fox. I am looking as hard as I can at the question “how do we get a true, elite 1C for their entire prime to NY?” and in response to that question, I am willing to make the painful and difficult decision to move Fox if it meant finally having a center who will be in the top 10-15 in the league on the Rangers, and not staring down the final years of his prime.

 

[Filip Chytil]

Yeah, and many of us wouldnt. Sports are supposed to be uncertain, fun, exhilarating entertainment.

If you want safe and boring, stick to sunday bingo.

My Sunday bingo sessions are more exhilarating than watching the 2024-2025 Rangers play hockey

 

[Kocur Dill]

I agree with this. Fox's hockey IQ is godly nobody is arguing against that, but physically he is a 26/27 year old pushing 34. Do I trust his body to hold up for deep playoff runs to the point he is a cheat code all the way? No I don't. Obviously I could be wrong but what we saw last year is much more likely to be the future playoff Fox than not. Lindgren's already broken down. Fox is not far behind him simply because he is targeted and can't always get out of the way.

If Fox comes back from an off season all shiny and sprinkly and a step or two quicker, like his first couple of seasons, I'm happy to change my mind, but I'll believe that when I see it.

To be fair. If NYR doesnt make the playoffs. Guys like Fox and Lindgren if he sticks will have a couple extra months before next season to fully heal from anything nagging them and the opportunity to train harder before PS having had adequate time to heal that teams who play extra months of nasty PO Hockey dont get.

A part of the bigger picture that gets overlooked when we all Arm Chair evaluate these guys.

 

[bigdog16]

Regardless of injury or not, I will give Kreider the benefit of the doubt that he can rebound. Perhaps this is simply a lost year for the entire team. But I think he can do it and I have confidence that he will. He isn't the only one having a poor season. And it all just depends on how one decides what makes for a poor season and what doesn't.

I will always contend that he's unfairly hated by some in the fanbase. If you're here long enough as a homegrown player, you'll eventually become the villain. But it always go deeper with him.

I believe many thought Kreider would be something he was never going to be and they've disliked them for it ever since. They perceive he doesn't work hard night in and night out. Yet he's last to leave the ice at practice so he can practice his deflections and help others who want to practice them too.

He leads a group of young players across the league in offseason training regimens. He was helping Rempe just this past summer.

I have no idea what the hell is going on with him right now. I ain't going to speculate either. Not my place. I'd probably be wrong anyway. He was good last year despite Mika continuing on his descent. I have more confidence in Chris Kreider getting his game back than I do his BFF. That's for sure.

I hope he stays a Ranger forever. If he's traded then so be it. I'd be upset, but I'd eventually get over it.

Or perhaps he is simply getting old and declining. He will be 34 next year and I don't have much faith in him rebounding.

Sure he has been here his entire career but he's accomplished next to nothing. He's been as productive as Brayden Schenn, less productive than Nazem Kadri throughout his career. Those aren't all world players.

I think a healthy percentage of this board was advocating him for captain when it was up for grabs. He is so far from captain material it's sickening. And although Trouba was clearly not the right choice, Kreider wasn't either.

 

[Kupo]

Guys, we need to reign in the personal shit please.

Don't let this post distract you from the the fact that in 1966, Al Bundy scored four touchdowns in a single game while playing for the Polk High School Panthers in the 1966 city championship game versus Andrew Johnson High School, including the game-winning touchdown in the final seconds against his old nemesis, "Spare Tire" Dixon.

 

[Mike in Houston]

Or perhaps he is simply getting old and declining. He will be 34 next year and I don't have much faith in him rebounding.

Sure he has been here his entire career but he's accomplished next to nothing. He's been as productive as Brayden Schenn, less productive than Nazem Kadri throughout his career. Those aren't all world players.

I think a healthy percentage of this board was advocating him for captain when it was up for grabs. He is so far from captain material it's sickening. And although Trouba was clearly not the right choice, Kreider wasn't either.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

 

[Fitzy]

My Sunday bingo sessions are more exhilarating than watching the 2024-2025 Rangers play hockey

It’s been as bad as I can remember. Even the very disappointing 2015-2016 campaign had some more energy behind it.

 

[kovazub94]

Please, go put money on the Caps to even make the conference finals. The goal isn’t to be the Caps. The goal is to finally build a team that’s going to get it done in the post season. You think the Caps are a serious contender? Not just to be contrarian or play devil’s advocate, but genuinely? I’ll put $100 down right now they don’t make it beyond the second round, if that.

Top-8 team in the league is a contender.

If you're so bold in your belief that Caps are not good make it a first round exit (but I think for someone in your situation - you shouldn't be gambling at all to begin with)

 

[offdacrossbar]

Just checking in see if Lindgren or Zibanejad have been traded yet.

Doesn't look like it.

Returning to not caring now ....

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Frank Seravalli’s take:

 

[bernmeister]

I agree with this. Fox's hockey IQ is godly nobody is arguing against that, but physically he is a 26/27 year old pushing 34. Do I trust his body to hold up for deep playoff runs to the point he is a cheat code all the way? No I don't. Obviously I could be wrong but what we saw last year is much more likely to be the future playoff Fox than not. Lindgren's already broken down. Fox is not far behind him simply because he is targeted and can't always get out of the way.

If Fox comes back from an off season all shiny and sprinkly and a step or two quicker, like his first couple of seasons, I'm happy to change my mind, but I'll believe that when I see it.

Only prob there is he earns full nmc very soon, so if you don't trade him now we are very likely stuck w him; as/when he ages, that = a big prob

yes his mental shit is superior but he is not pulling any Jedi mind tricks and the more he slows down, the more he will get slammed
which = increased wear + tear
+ another smarter, better Lindgren, but still Lindgren level of beat up

 

[Machinehead]

It’s been as bad as I can remember. Even the very disappointing 2015-2016 campaign had some more energy behind it.

At least the 15-16 team had those runs where they shot 30% for a few games. That was at least winning.

We might still have them this year, but so far, blah.