Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV (To trade or not to trade is the question)

[TGWL]

Trading Miller for Provorov?

He's a UFA, so there would have to be some agreement here in place. And are you comfortable giving out 6/7 years? Do you feel he earned a pay raise or are you going to try and get that cap closer to 6? I don't think his play has lived up to his last contract and at times looked like a cap dump, so I'd hesitate to give him term.

 

[Machinehead]

I like it but we have to fix the defense too. We agree on Pettersson and I love the kid Kesselring on Utah you mentioned a few weeks back. Hidden gem.

Miller-Fox and Pettersson-Schneider is a good top four.

I would like to do even more but the market for defensemen just isn't there right now.

That's why I'm coming around on overloading at wing and having the rest be passable.

 

[McRanger92]

The rangers have over 4 million in present day cap space. The ability to add salary is a huge advantage.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

fyi Igor's contract is listed as full NMC!

Mazel tov!

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Mancini

Good to know we’re setting the expectations bar so low with him lol

 

[McRanger92]

Miller-Fox and Pettersson-Schneider is a good top four.

I would like to do even more but the market for defensemen just isn't there right now.

That's why I'm coming around on overloading at wing and having the rest be passable.

I dont like Miller's game or attitude this year, but he and Fox have worked as a pair together, and you dont need to throw a theoretically talented kid out with the bathwater (Lindgren). If it works with K'Andre and Fox its the best possible outcome. Might as well explore it when hes healthy. The team has literally nothing to lose. Schneider needs stability in a partner first and foremost.

I could see Dru making a deal with Van. I could see Van having interest in KK. Maybe something along the lines of KK for Hoglander (IIRC wants out of Van) & Patterson(the d prosopect). Tho NYR needs would prob be more along the lines of Ratu & Willinder.

Soucy? Maybe throw in Lindgren or Jones. Expand it to include Hoglander. I see the fit.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

He's a UFA, so there would have to be some agreement here in place. And are you comfortable giving out 6/7 years? Do you feel he earned a pay raise or are you going to try and get that cap closer to 6?

Provorov would either be a revelation or immediately fizzle out into mediocrity once sets foot on NY soil.

Certainly a huge asset on the market. But hell, I'm not sure he's as good as advertised. We'll surely overpay him.

Sergachev was another similar trade. Huge trade for UTAH, maybe?

 

[TGWL]

fyi Igor's contract is listed as full NMC!

Mazel tov!

Just wait until you look at the buyout... or should I say, the lack of being able to buy it out. But, hey, this is what some fans wanted.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I know it won’t happen and I know most of you are against it, but guys like Fox and Shesterkin before their trade protections

Aside from the fact that Drury is the king of largely middling moves, this will never happen from a pure optics perspective.

The team already seemingly is developing an image problem with players about being too cut throat. If they do this, it does even further damage to that reputation.

All this cut throat talk is great message board conversation fodder, but not anywhere aligned with reality. Especially when you come down to it, this is still a job. Why would people want to work for a job that treats their employees as disposable?

 

[Machinehead]

I dont like Miller's game or attitude this year, but he and Fox have worked as a pair together, and you dont need to throw a theoretically talented kid out with the bathwater (Lindgren). If it works with K'Andre and Fox its the best possible outcome. Might as well explore it when hes healthy. The team has literally nothing to lose. Schneider needs stability in a partner first and foremost.

Schneider is the next Kevin Klein.

Solid, effective RHD who is low-key more of a puck-mover than anything else.

He needs a good defender on his left side to allow him to embrace that even more.

 

[LokiDog]

The #1 thing this team needs right now is more defenseman and any defenseman that comes in for Fox is a downgrade. It just doesn't make any sense to trade Fox.

I would be very here for Igor but something like that has never happened on any team.

I don’t think Fox’s best days are ahead of him. I think that our team needs a year or two of transition before we rebound from where we are now. Another 1-2 years on Fox and he will have diminished in value and efficacy. It’s not about upgrading Fox. It’s an intentional downgrade while his value is at its peak to acquire the “unacquirable” young 1C to build around. In my example I had Fox returning something like Fantili or McTavish (+) and then Shesterkin returning something like Power. Power is a downgrade from Fox, but a massive young D with big upside who could still become the building block of the back end.

The point is to build a new core where Laf and Kakko and Chytil and Schneider are the veterans and the pieces that are brought in more closely align with Berard and Perrault’s ages. Fox is 27 in February, Shesty is 29 this month. They were part of the Zibanejad/Kreider/Bread window. When this team is ready to contend again Fox will be 30 and Shesty will be 32. It’s not an argument about whether or not you can upgrade or downgrade Fox. It’s about creating a genuine window for the younger core that we need to transition to.

 

[LokiDog]

Aside from the fact that Drury is the king of largely middling moves, this will never happen from a pure optics perspective.

The team already seemingly is developing an image problem with players about being too cut throat. If they do this, it does even further damage to that reputation.

All this cut throat talk is great message board conversation fodder, but not anywhere aligned with reality. Especially when you come down to it, this is still a job. Why would people want to work for a job that treats their employees as disposable?

It hasn’t stopped Vegas at all… if anything, players that want to win go to Vegas and players that just want comfort avoid them now. I watched the Amazon show from last year and they focused on Eichel going to Vegas and he flat out said “we know they’re cut throat, but we don’t care, we only care about one thing - they want to win, we want to win”. I’m fine with developing a reputation that you don’t come here to take it easy and coast. Zero problem.

 

[McRanger92]

I don’t think Fox’s best days are ahead of him. I think that our team needs a year or two of transition before we rebound from where we are now. Another 1-2 years on Fox and he will have diminished in value and efficacy. It’s not about upgrading Fox. It’s an intentional downgrade while his value is at its peak to acquire the “unacquirable” young 1C to build around. In my example I had Fox returning something like Fantili or McTavish (+) and then Shesterkin returning something like Power. Power is a downgrade from Fox, but a massive young D with big upside who could still become the building block of the back end.

The point is to build a new core where Laf and Kakko and Chytil and Schneider are the veterans and the pieces that are brought in more closely align with Berard and Perrault’s ages. Fox is 27 in February, Shesty is 29 this month. They were part of the Zibanejad/Kreider/Bread window. When this team is ready to contend again Fox will be 30 and Shesty will be 32. It’s not an argument about whether or not you can upgrade or downgrade Fox. It’s about creating a genuine window for the younger core that we need to transition to.

You can't trade Fox before Lindgren. They've never even tried a big guy who can skate with him for any prolonged period. It's cutting you nose off to spite your face. Fantilli and MacTavish are not guarantees.

 

[Machinehead]

I don’t think Fox’s best days are ahead of him. I think that our team needs a year or two of transition before we rebound from where we are now. Another 1-2 years on Fox and he will have diminished in value and efficacy. It’s not about upgrading Fox. It’s an intentional downgrade while his value is at its peak to acquire the “unacquirable” young 1C to build around. In my example I had Fox returning something like Fantili or McTavish (+) and then Shesterkin returning something like Power. Power is a downgrade from Fox, but a massive young D with big upside who could still become the building block of the back end.

The point is to build a new core where Laf and Kakko and Chytil and Schneider are the veterans and the pieces that are brought in more closely align with Berard and Perrault’s ages. Fox is 27 in February, Shesty is 29 this month. They were part of the Zibanejad/Kreider/Bread window. When this team is ready to contend again Fox will be 30 and Shesty will be 32. It’s not an argument about whether or not you can upgrade or downgrade Fox. It’s about creating a genuine window for the younger core that we need to transition to.

You don't get the elusive thing to maybe build around by trading the elusive thing you can definitely build around. 1D isn't any easier to find or any less important. Fantilli and McTavish are nice fliers, but we know Fox is world-class.

Drury already has a decent young foundation and it shouldn't take that long to get back into contention if he's aggressive about pursuing change. Making the team much worse today, for the next couple of years, and probably for good unless the trade is a complete homerun is not the kind of change to pursue. It's the Buffalo Sabres school of rebuilding.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

You don't get the elusive thing to maybe build around by trading the elusive thing you can definitely build around. 1D isn't any easier to find or any less important. Fantilli and McTavish are nice fliers, but we know Fox is world-class.

Drury already has a decent young foundation and it shouldn't take that long to get back into contention if he's aggressive about pursuing change. Making the team much worse today, for the next couple of years, and probably for good unless the trade is a complete homerun is not the kind of change to pursue. It's the Buffalo Sabres school of rebuilding.

I can trade Fox for the mystery box. The mystery box can be anything! It could even be Adam Fox

 

[Machinehead]

I can trade Fox for the mystery box. The mystery box can be anything! It could even be Adam Fox

The whole point of going all in on a rebuild is to get foundational pieces. Trading foundational pieces to do that, unless they're a year or two from their contracts, is counterproductive.

 

[LokiDog]

You don't get the elusive thing to maybe build around by trading the elusive thing you can definitely build around. 1D isn't any easier to find or any less important. Fantilli and McTavish are nice fliers, but we know Fox is world-class.

Drury already has a decent young foundation and it shouldn't take that long to get back into contention if he's aggressive about pursuing change. Making the team much worse today, for the next couple of years, and probably for good unless the trade is a complete homerun is not the kind of change to pursue. It's the Buffalo Sabres school of rebuilding.

You can’t build around 27 year old Fox. We had a chance to build around him and that build failed. If you’re building around him now, you’re building for when he is 29-30 years old and skates slower than my grandma walks. I am hands down, flat out faster than Fox on the ice and I am 38 years old. That’s not even remote hyperbole; I would bet Loki’s life on a race against Fox. Fox’s value will never be as high as it is today ever again. This is the point in his career where it begins to diminish. Building around him now would be extremely foolish. If we weren’t in the situation we’re in I wouldn’t even be discussing moving him - I generally agree with you - but the entire team needs to be rebuilt and Fox is not going to be world class WHEN the new roster is ready. If he were 24 and a better skater, it wouldn’t be a discussion. He’s turning 27, he’s had injuries, he’s been leaned on overly heavily and we’ve seen his best hockey already. I would bet my life on this. You keep calling him a foundational piece but he will not be aligned with the new timeline that this core has forced us onto. He will not be foundational when the timing is right. It isn’t his fault - it’s the rest of the teams’ but now he is positioned to waste his remaining prime years on a retooling tire fire.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

The whole point of going all in on a rebuild is to get foundational pieces. Trading foundational pieces to do that, unless they're a year or two from their contracts, is counterproductive.

If he was 33 then yeah I could get behind it. He’s 26, signed long term, and there’s nothing coming to replace him

The best defensive prospect they have is the kid they drafted this summer. Who on the broadcast, they said will top out as a very good 3/4 defenseman. Oh, and he’s allergic to offense

I’m not trading Fox for magic beans, I’m sorry

 

[Machinehead]

You can’t build around 27 year old Fox. We had a chance to build around him and that build failed. If you’re building around him now, you’re building for when he is 29-30 years old and skates slower than my grandma walks. I am hands down, flat out faster than Fox on the ice and I am 38 years old. That’s not even remote hyperbole; I would bet Loki’s life on a race against Fox. Fox’s value will never be as high as it is today ever again. This is the point in his career where it begins to diminish. Building around him now would be extremely foolish. If we weren’t in the situation we’re in I wouldn’t even be discussing moving him - I generally agree with you - but the entire team needs to be rebuilt and Fox is not going to be world class WHEN the new roster is ready. If he were 24 and a better skater, it wouldn’t be a discussion. He’s turning 27, he’s had injuries, he’s been leaned on overly heavily and we’ve seen his best hockey already. I would bet my life on this.

We may have seen his best hockey already, but I don't know what you think is going to happen to him when he's 29, dude.

He's still one of the three best defensemen in the league right now.

If we trade Fox, we're going to spend the next two decades desperately waiting for somebody to replace him. That, I would bet my life on.

 

[CLW]

Aside from the fact that Drury is the king of largely middling moves, this will never happen from a pure optics perspective.

The team already seemingly is developing an image problem with players about being too cut throat. If they do this, it does even further damage to that reputation.

All this cut throat talk is great message board conversation fodder, but not anywhere aligned with reality. Especially when you come down to it, this is still a job. Why would people want to work for a job that treats their employees as disposable?

King of Largely Middling Moves

With so many Kings around you can see why a civil war is brewing.

 

[McRanger92]

NHL mock trade proposals: One tantalizing target for each team. Could any deals happen?

The Athletic's NHL staff proposes one trade target for each team, evaluates the cost and whether a deal is realistic or even worth it.

www.nytimes.com

Two mock trades involving the Rangers.

Kreider to Buffalo for Mattias Samuelsson

Marcus Pettersson to the Rangers for a 1st round pick

 

[Machinehead]

NHL mock trade proposals: One tantalizing target for each team. Could any deals happen?

The Athletic's NHL staff proposes one trade target for each team, evaluates the cost and whether a deal is realistic or even worth it.

www.nytimes.com

Two mock trades involving the Rangers.

Kreider to Buffalo for Mattias Samuelsson

Marcus Pettersson to the Rangers for a 1st round pick

Us trading a 1st right now is so f***ing brutal. Hard pass on that one.

 

[McRanger92]

Us trading a 1st right now is so f***ing brutal. Hard pass on that one.

Agreed, it's too risky because the longer this season goes with the losing, we may just need to write it off. Shit happens (shoutout 93 Rangers). Id try to dangle kakko and a defenseman in front of PIT.

I dont know much about Samuelsson.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm not trading Fox but I'm still taking my 1st rounder this year, hoping it's as high as possible, and putting it in the slot machine.

 

[JimmyG89]

I've said it before, I wouldn't trade Panarin because I like scoring goals

I'd like to keep him too, but at 33 he's hitting the point where he can't be your #1 winger without an elite C. On top of that, how quickly is this turning around? Panarin is going to want to be on a contender, and not just a playoff team, but a legit cup contender.

You're not going to get better value than right now. If you wait for after this deadline, teams won't get two runs at it with him.

The only way you don't trade him is they plan on re-signing him. He'd have to take a discount from what he is currently making to have that work, and with those wingers you mentioned, and a few others on the way, you're better off making a move sooner than later.

You need young LHD and C options if you want to remake this roster for the future. Panarin can bring back pieces to do that.