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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV (To trade or not to trade is the question)

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JimmyG89 said:
I'd like to keep him too, but at 33 he's hitting the point where he can't be your #1 winger without an elite C. On top of that, how quickly is this turning around? Panarin is going to want to be on a contender, and not just a playoff team, but a legit cup contender.

You're not going to get better value than right now. If you wait for after this deadline, teams won't get two runs at it with him.

The only way you don't trade him is they plan on re-signing him. He'd have to take a discount from what he is currently making to have that work, and with those wingers you mentioned, and a few others on the way, you're better off making a move sooner than later.

You need young LHD and C options if you want to remake this roster for the future. Panarin can bring back pieces to do that.
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I'm hoping for a quick turnaround.

I think Cuylle, Chytil, Berard, etc etc (you know the names) is a nice start as is, and all of them are in the NHL or getting around to NHL age. Rebuilds that go longer than three years go longer than ten.

I am open to trading Panarin depending on the return, but again, I come back to this idea of trading elite talent and then hoping the rebuild replaces elite talent.
 
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Machinehead said:
We may have seen his best hockey already, but I don't know what you think is going to happen to him when he's 29, dude.

He's still one of the three best defensemen in the league right now.

If we trade Fox, we're going to spend the next two decades desperately waiting for somebody to replace him. That, I would bet my life on.
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We’ll have to agree to disagree out of respect for one another. I think Fox will decline somewhat more quickly - partially due to being overused and partially due to poor foot speed. I don’t feel good about starting the new window with a 29 year old Fox as the building block of the blue line. Again, it isn’t his fault or a criticism of Fox. I want a center who will be under 25 when the next window opens in exchange for him. I’m not trading him to be rid of him. If that return isn’t there from any team in the league, we can pass. I am trying to consciously choose to get 4-5 years younger while filling the most important position in the sport, by moving a player who is CURRENTLY a top 3-5 player at their position in the world to a team that can afford to move a guy who is CURRENTLY 22ish but who we can reasonably (obviously you can never guarantee anything) expect to be our 1C for a decade.

Yes, it’s a gamble. For me, it comes down to this: if we don’t have a genuine 1C the next window fails as well, and Fox being 29 at the start of it, regardless of how good he’s been so far in his career, isn’t going to make or break that next window. I would rather go all in on finally having an elite center to build around than gamble on Fox being as effective going forward as he was earlier in his career - and for how long? Right now, Fox is probably the only piece that even has the possibility of bringing back that type of asset. You have to give to get. I want a true 1C more than I want 29+ year old Fox being the #1D and slowest skater in the NHL during our next window.

Also, respectfully, just in my opinion, Fox has been part of the lazy complacent core.
 
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I continue to think Rantanen should be the big target this summer. He checks every box.

Great two way player
elite offensively
position of need (RW)
Leadership and playoff performer
Size and strength
only costs money and cap space

A Marian Hossa type like Rantanen would race the teams ceiling tremendously. There's a void in the room Mikko could fill as well and I think Igor makes the Rangers an attractive destination for guys in their prime, looking to win.
 
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McRanger92 said:
I continue to think Rantanen should be the big target this summer. He checks every box.

Great two way player
elite offensively
position of need (RW)
Leadership and playoff performer
Size and strength
only costs money and cap space

A Marian Hossa type like Rantanen would race the teams ceiling tremendously. There's a void in the room Mikko could fill as well and I think Igor makes the Rangers an attractive destination for guys in their prime, looking to win.
Click to expand...

We sign McDavid to league maximum, and you will enjoy over $45 million for Shesty, Mika, Laffy, and McJesus.
 
LokiDog said:
You can’t build around 27 year old Fox. We had a chance to build around him and that build failed. If you’re building around him now, you’re building for when he is 29-30 years old and skates slower than my grandma walks. I am hands down, flat out faster than Fox on the ice and I am 38 years old. That’s not even remote hyperbole; I would bet Loki’s life on a race against Fox. Fox’s value will never be as high as it is today ever again. This is the point in his career where it begins to diminish. Building around him now would be extremely foolish. If we weren’t in the situation we’re in I wouldn’t even be discussing moving him - I generally agree with you - but the entire team needs to be rebuilt and Fox is not going to be world class WHEN the new roster is ready. If he were 24 and a better skater, it wouldn’t be a discussion. He’s turning 27, he’s had injuries, he’s been leaned on overly heavily and we’ve seen his best hockey already. I would bet my life on this. You keep calling him a foundational piece but he will not be aligned with the new timeline that this core has forced us onto. He will not be foundational when the timing is right. It isn’t his fault - it’s the rest of the teams’ but now he is positioned to waste his remaining prime years on a retooling tire fire.
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The split between the top core and the kids coming up was always going to sink this fake rebuild.

Trading Igor and Fox now would be ballsy (too ballsy for the Rangers) but handled right it would create a new core that's aligned overnight.
 
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McRanger92 said:
I continue to think Rantanen should be the big target this summer. He checks every box.

Great two way player
elite offensively
position of need (RW)
Leadership and playoff performer
Size and strength
only costs money and cap space

A Marian Hossa type like Rantanen would race the teams ceiling tremendously. There's a void in the room Mikko could fill as well and I think Igor makes the Rangers an attractive destination for guys in their prime, looking to win.
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I don't know about that first one!!

He definitely checks off all of the other boxes and if you do trade Panairn, Rantanen is a must.

Imagine going from Panarin, to a bigger Panairn + assets. That's the kind of move you make.

I don't even like the word "rebuild," but I do want to remake the team. Most of us do. I just think you do that by being aggressive. Just being bad is a failure way more often than it's a success.

I don't think Gorton signing Panarin and Trouba, as a principle, was a terrible idea. It was terrible because

1) Trouba sucks
2) They got super aggressive at (at the time) positions of strength (LW and RD) and said "ah hell, we'll figure it out later."
3) They then proceeded to not do that and just never figured it out. They finally moved somebody to RW f***ing last year under Drury.

If anything, Gorton should have stayed aggressive. When Kakko wasn't immediately a factor, he should have said "f*** it, I signed Panarin to play wing, I'm trading Kakko for a center."

Shit or get off the pot like Florida did. They did a traditional rebuild to no results for several years, and then they got good when they decided on what they were keeping and aggressively filled holes, while never completely blowing their load at the deadline and keeping their 1st's (until recently).
 
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GAGLine said:
Nobody on this board, perhaps, but we aren't the ones making the trades. Do you believe Drury has given up on this season? I'm not so sure.
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I would be extremely surprised if the Rangers are buyers this year.

I think the writing is very much on the wall.
 
McRanger92 said:
www.nytimes.com

NHL mock trade proposals: One tantalizing target for each team. Could any deals happen?

The Athletic's NHL staff proposes one trade target for each team, evaluates the cost and whether a deal is realistic or even worth it.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Two mock trades involving the Rangers.

Kreider to Buffalo for Mattias Samuelsson

Marcus Pettersson to the Rangers for a 1st round pick
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God awful.

Make that a 1st coming to the Rangers in addition to Samuelsson for Kreider and I think there's something there.
 
Machinehead said:
I don't think anybody wants to make trades to save the season.
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Marcus Pettersson is a rental. The entire genesis of the "rumor" comes from an article in The Atletic which came out on Saturday morning trying to connect players to teams. Peter Baugh suggested Pettersson and James Mirtle wrote the cost is a 1st round pick. Then we saw the Rangers get destroyed by the Kings a few hours later.

The Buffalo beat writer suggested the Sabres would love Chris Kreider. Mirtle suggested Mattias Samuelsson is the price. He is signed until 2030.
 
RangerBoy said:
Marcus Pettersson is a rental. The entire genesis of the "rumor" comes from an article in The Atletic which came out on Saturday morning trying to connect players to teams. Peter Baugh suggested Pettersson and James Mirtle wrote the cost is a 1st round pick. Then we saw the Rangers get destroyed by the Kings a few hours later.

The Buffalo beat writer suggested the Sabres would love Chris Kreider. Mirtle suggested Mattias Samuelsson is the price. He is signed until 2030.
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I hate both proposals. The same GM that wouldn't give up a 1st rounder for Kane or Tarasenko will now give up a 1st for Marcus f***ing Pettersson to save a floundering season? Uh huh.

Samuelsson I like but he's a bottom pairing defenseman. Kreider is worth more.
 
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RangerBoy said:
Marcus Pettersson is a rental. The entire genesis of the "rumor" comes from an article in The Atletic which came out on Saturday morning trying to connect players to teams. Peter Baugh suggested Pettersson and James Mirtle wrote the cost is a 1st round pick.

The Buffalo beat writer suggested the Sabres would love Chris Kreider. Mirtle suggested Mattias Samuelsson is the price. He is signed until 2030.
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But here's the other side of it: Samuelsson sucks and Pettersson doesn't.

Pettersson has another year left after this one, and if it works out, you can sign him. A "rebuilding" team can sign UFA players. It doesn't have to be so black and white all the time.

I wouldn't trade a 1st for him, and if somebody offers the Penguins that, then it is what it is.

In none of these scenarios would I trade Kreider for a guy that sucks because he's signed for a long time.
 
Kreider is worth a lot in a trade. To be fair, it never explicitly says Samuelsson for him in the article.

Byram, Cozens, Power are all players that fit the team need. Buff will covet all of them. But Kreider gets you a haul-haul these days. Not the package we dealt for Nash, but not thaaat far away from it either.
 
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Machinehead said:
But here's the other side of it: Samuelsson sucks and Pettersson doesn't.

Pettersson has another year left after this one, and if it works out, you can sign him. A "rebuilding" team can sign UFA players. It doesn't have to be so black and white all the time.

I wouldn't trade a 1st for him, and if somebody offers the Penguins that, then it is what it is.

In none of these scenarios would I trade Kreider for a guy that sucks because he's signed for a long time.
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Pettersson is a UFA this summer. Rangers should extend him.
 
surlysailor said:
I could see Dru making a deal with Van. I could see Van having interest in KK. Maybe something along the lines of KK for Hoglander (IIRC wants out of Van) & Patterson(the d prosopect). Tho NYR needs would prob be more along the lines of Ratu & Willinder.
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just make the deal I said asap
zib haolf retained
for
Juusen Raty, Forbot + cap dump Descharnais

raty is decent 3rd pivot w/upside
Juulsen helps now
others are stopgap
and yes we eat half of zib = unavoidable, at least we dumped the other half now

McRanger92 said:
You can't trade Fox before Lindgren. They've never even tried a big guy who can skate with him for any prolonged period. It's cutting you nose off to spite your face. Fantilli and MacTavish are not guarantees.
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Sure you can
and if we are being objective,
Fox gets good offers now for win now teams or impatient club like Sens

no one wants Lindy, we have to pay to remove


Machinehead said:
The whole point of going all in on a rebuild is to get foundational pieces. Trading foundational pieces to do that, unless they're a year or two from their contracts, is counterproductive.
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First sentence yes, at least conceptually
Second sentence = it depends.
Not all foundational pieces are equal.
LaF was a foundational piece and we wanted to move him b'c he was subpar b'c of skating.
But there was reasonable hope that even if a yr +, that could be overcome, which has happened.
LaF = a piece that had long term upside, even when there was a gamble on his skating

Fox, otoh, was not a good skater to begin with, has worsened, and will continue to get worse.
Smart move is to sell high now
Sens should give us
Kleven + Pinto + Grieg + better pick way down the road
for
Fox and lesser pick down the road
 
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