Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV (To trade or not to trade is the question)

[Shesterkybomb]

Yeah I don’t think it’s unreasonable to move players first and then find a new coach. I wouldn’t necessarily go hire a new coach and bring him in if I was going to immediately start moving out the veteran group of players. That’s not a good spot for any coach to walk in to and it’s not really fair to them.

I’m looking squarely at Kakko, Kreider and Smith.

Problem is you can't trade your way out of this, the culture and the style of play needs to change and it starts with the coach. I don't think Dolan has the patience for another tear down so it's likely a couple of trades and a coach, not a bunch of trades for draft picks and prospects.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Caps have been very good this season. Brian MacLellan had a good summer. Trading Kuemper for PLD who is having a good season after being awful in LA. Jensen and 3rd to Ottawa for Chychrun who is also having a good season. He is just happy to be playing for a winning team. Signing Roy as a free agent. 3rd round pick for Logan Thompson who is also having a good season. Some of their young guys like Protas and McMichael have taken that next step. I love Protas. He is a beast of a man. McMichael has 15 goals. Fifteen!!!! If Kakko had 15 goals. We would be planning a parade down the Canyon of Heroes. Tom Wilson is having a great season. Love that guy. Wiish he played for the Rangers. Ryan Leonard will be joining them next season. Another stud. Spencer Carbery seems like a very good coach. They moved on from Laviolette and hired a young guy. Carbery would have probably failed here with the egos on this team. The Rangers always hire the big name experienced coach. The Caps trade picks for players who play on their team for longer than two months. What a novel concept!!!!

First place in the East. OV should be back after Christmas.

 

[RangerBoy]

Problem is you can't trade your way out of this, the culture and the style of play needs to change and it starts with the coach. I don't think Dolan has the patience for another tear down so it's likely a couple of trades and a coach, not a bunch of trades for draft picks and prospects.

Wrong my friend. Some of the players have big egos. How does the style of play change when the players are uncoachable? How many times have the Rangers changed the coach? The Rangers need to blow it all up. New core group. New coach. These players are the bigger problem.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Problem is you can't trade your way out of this, the culture and the style of play needs to change and it starts with the coach. I don't think Dolan has the patience for another tear down so it's likely a couple of trades and a coach, not a bunch of trades for draft picks and prospects.

It starts with James Dolan.

1) As soon as a player signs a contract to play with this team, he's given the best of everything. The best practice facilities. The best charter flights. The best hotel rooms. The best food. It breeds entitlement.

2) Dolan doesn't give a shit about winning a cup. He wants playoff revenue. If a genie offered him the choice between a decade of 2nd round exits or 2 cups and 8 years of no playoffs, which do you think he would choose?

 

[mas0764]

It starts with James Dolan.

1) As soon as a player signs a contract to play with this team, he's given the best of everything. The best practice facilities. The best charter flights. The best hotel rooms. The best food. It breeds entitlement.

2) Dolan doesn't give a shit about winning a cup. He wants playoff revenue. If a genie offered him the choice between a decade of 2nd round exits or 2 cups and 8 years of no playoffs, which do you think he would choose?

Yeah point 2 is a real problem for this franchise and the fan base takes its cue and follows along.

No commitment to building a winner means a winner is never built and the fans slop up the ruse under the lie that “just get in and we can win,” which is of course untrue.

 

[Fitzy]

Yeah point 2 is a real problem for this franchise and the fan base takes its cue and follows along.

No commitment to building a winner means a winner is never built and the fans slop up the ruse under the lie that “just get in and we can win,” which is of course untrue.

It's not completely untrue, it's just that the odds start to look a lot like the draft lottery odds the lower down the list of quality playoff teams you go.

So there's a natural appeal to want the 1/100 miracle shot, but that genuinely means 1 cup in 100 playoff years, so it's probably not something worth aspiring towards

 

[cheech70]

It starts with James Dolan.

1) As soon as a player signs a contract to play with this team, he's given the best of everything. The best practice facilities. The best charter flights. The best hotel rooms. The best food. It breeds entitlement.

2) Dolan doesn't give a shit about winning a cup. He wants playoff revenue. If a genie offered him the choice between a decade of 2nd round exits or 2 cups and 8 years of no playoffs, which do you think he would choose?

So true..8 million per playoff games sans league cash...just gate and concessions..8 home games x 8 milion...64 million x 30% profit............ 20 million net net.....which he now needs for the Sphere

 

[leetch99]

Drury is such a coward.

Fits the description of most of our team almost every game .

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

There are three ways to look at this right now.

One, fire the coach. You can’t fire the entire team although most of them have deserved it. The effort is all but gone, they are literally forcing Drurys hand and maybe that’s the message they are trying to send.

If that’s what they want then they should be careful what they wish for. I don’t know who is available but I feel like with the way this season is headed they should hire a coach who will make their lives a living hell. Because that’s what’s deserved.

Two, keep Laviolette because the load shouldn’t fall all on his shoulders. Let things play out and do your best to move Kreider, Miller, & Lindgren. Find a way to piss off Mika so he waives his NTC (very wishful thinking). Trading his bro is a start. None of this will fix anything short term but at least it will get the ball rolling on a retool for the future. Draft pick will likely move up in this scenario

Three, throw the whole damn thing in the dumpster and ignite it - Dolan fires Drury and Laviolette mid season and brings in someone new and everything resets. Problem is the players/core doesnt change and to me that the biggest issue with this club - although it would be a good start knowing the new GM has no attachment to any of them. A reset of the cc culture is in order, but we are relying on JD to find the guy to remove it. Which is asking a LOT

 

[Synergy27]

So what’s realistically going to happen? Teams don’t trade at this time of year, so, they are going to continue to falter, fire an assistant coach or two, and then make some decisions at the deadline.

They are going to either barely sneak into the playoffs or barely miss - the dreaded middle.

Still can’t get over the Igor contract. It’s yet another sign that there will be no commitment to building a winner. This team could be looking at a haul of assets gained at the deadline (Panarin, Igor, Kreider) with a clean cap sheet on which to redesign the team but as usual we’ll be making small changes around the edges and the result will be the same.

 

[Vitto79]

So what’s realistically going to happen? Teams don’t trade at this time of year, so, they are going to continue to falter, fire an assistant coach or two, and then make some decisions at the deadline.

They are going to either barely sneak into the playoffs or barely miss - the dreaded middle.

Still can’t get over the Igor contract. It’s yet another sign that there will be no commitment to building a winner. This team could be looking at a haul of assets gained at the deadline (Panarin, Igor, Kreider) with a clean cap sheet on which to redesign the team but as usual we’ll be making small changes around the edges and the result will be the same.

Igor in net and Fox on D means the teams not rebuilding

It’s a retool which means some balzy moves coming

Pray they hit on Perrault being real good

Trading Kreider , Kakko , Lindgren is gonna happen

 

[Fitzy]

Rangers players, 19 of 20 of which have never won anything- We're tired of Laviolette, a cup winning coach

Me:

 

[RangersFan1994]

Dolan would never stand for losing that playoff revenue.

He did during the rebuild

 

[leetch99]

This team is so screwed up....they likely end up a lottery team in the wrong year again . Leave it to the Rangers to screw up the simplest of things .

 

[bernmeister]

Problem is you can't trade your way out of this, the culture and the style of play needs to change and it starts with the coach. I don't think Dolan has the patience for another tear down so it's likely a couple of trades and a coach, not a bunch of trades for draft picks and prospects.

disagree to the extent I think Dolan is riding shotgun here presum b'c unlike hoops he doesn't think he knows NHL well enough. But I could be wrong. To the extent the problem is his [lack of] patience, eff him. All must submit to the truth, and the truth is vets will not help here. A proper foundation is required = add futures, regardless of how soon or long before desired results materialize.

It starts with James Dolan.

1) As soon as a player signs a contract to play with this team, he's given the best of everything. The best practice facilities. The best charter flights. The best hotel rooms. The best food. It breeds entitlement.

2) Dolan doesn't give a shit about winning a cup. He wants playoff revenue. If a genie offered him the choice between a decade of 2nd round exits or 2 cups and 8 years of no playoffs, which do you think he would choose?

I disagree on da bold

First, the guy has more than enuf money; I agree hedonistic switch we all have pushes for more. But 2 facts rebuke yr assessment.
1) assume it is about the $$. There is mo $$ both cumulatively [total PO ticket sales] and proportionately [later round tix can command more]. So this works vs yr scenario of be satisfied w/just getting in for a round or two.
2) Dolan knows the same adage we all do: gotta spend money to make money. It is called investing. Prob is in old pre cap days $$ alone did this AND addressed almost any problem. No more.


Second, the desire for pleasure is not limited to $$$.
Everyone has an ego, and not everyone can keep it in check.
Woody Johnson can't buy the Jets a playoff round, let alone a Lombardi trophy.

Neither the Leafs, nor us, nor any other club wants to have humiliation of being also rans, regardless of whether or not playoffs are involved.

The Duck have sucked ass for 3-ish yrs and now they have a solid foundation.

We can be creative a bit and reduce the suck window somewhat, but BERN IS RIGHT fundamentals cannot be ignored.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

So what’s realistically going to happen? Teams don’t trade at this time of year, so, they are going to continue to falter, fire an assistant coach or two, and then make some decisions at the deadline.

They are going to either barely sneak into the playoffs or barely miss - the dreaded middle.

Still can’t get over the Igor contract. It’s yet another sign that there will be no commitment to building a winner. This team could be looking at a haul of assets gained at the deadline (Panarin, Igor, Kreider) with a clean cap sheet on which to redesign the team but as usual we’ll be making small changes around the edges and the result will be the same.

Gm fired...new gm brings his own coaches

 

[Synergy27]

Igor in net and Fox on D means the teams not rebuilding

It’s a retool which means some balzy moves coming

Pray they hit on Perrault being real good

Trading Kreider , Kakko , Lindgren is gonna happen

Yes, exactly. Retool. Aka fake rebuild. More of the same.

Gm fired...new gm brings his own coaches

That’s my preferred approach. As nutless as these players seem, I don’t think we should be ignoring the absolute mismanagement Drury has applied that has turned a regular season champion (trademark) into this.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

disagree to the extent I think Dolan is riding shotgun here presum b'c unlike hoops he doesn't think he knows NHL well enough. But I could be wrong. To the extent the problem is his [lack of] patience, eff him. All must submit to the truth, and the truth is vets will not help here. A proper foundation is required = add futures, regardless of how soon or long before desired results materialize.


I disagree on da bold

First, the guy has more than enuf money; I agree hedonistic switch we all have pushes for more. But 2 facts rebuke yr assessment.
1) assume it is about the $$. There is mo $$ both cumulatively [total PO ticket sales] and proportionately [later round tix can command more]. So this works vs yr scenario of be satisfied w/just getting in for a round or two.
2) Dolan knows the same adage we all do: gotta spend money to make money. It is called investing. Prob is in old pre cap days $$ alone did this AND addressed almost any problem. No more.


Second, the desire for pleasure is not limited to $$$.
Everyone has an ego, and not everyone can keep it in check.
Woody Johnson can't buy the Jets a playoff round, let alone a Lombardi trophy.

Neither the Leafs, nor us, nor any other club wants to have humiliation of being also rans, regardless of whether or not playoffs are involved.

The Duck have sucked ass for 3-ish yrs and now they have a solid foundation.

We can be creative a bit and reduce the suck window somewhat, but BERN IS RIGHT fundamentals cannot be ignored.

Dolan is not allowing another rebuild to happen because he did that already and it failed. The best approach right now is to fire Drury and new gm brings his coaches. Drury has traded our draft capital for nothing, a blatant example is trading for Riley Smith, tell me you couldn't replace him with Vesey and not know the difference? They need to just move on from Drury, he had a pretty long run here with some success but the team isn't working anymore, and most of his moves haven't proved well, the team that won for him was constructed by Gorton.

 

[bernmeister]

There are three ways to look at this right now.

One, fire the coach. You can’t fire the entire team although most of them have deserved it. The effort is all but gone, they are literally forcing Drurys hand and maybe that’s the message they are trying to send.

If that’s what they want then they should be careful what they wish for. I don’t know who is available but I feel like with the way this season is headed they should hire a coach who will make their lives a living hell. Because that’s what’s deserved.

Two, keep Laviolette because the load shouldn’t fall all on his shoulders. Let things play out and do your best to move Kreider, Miller, & Lindgren. Find a way to piss off Mika so he waives his NTC (very wishful thinking). Trading his bro is a start. None of this will fix anything short term but at least it will get the ball rolling on a retool for the future. Draft pick will likely move up in this scenario

Three, throw the whole damn thing in the dumpster and ignite it - Dolan fires Drury and Laviolette mid season and brings in someone new and everything resets. Problem is the players/core doesnt change and to me that the biggest issue with this club - although it would be a good start knowing the new GM has no attachment to any of them. A reset of the cc culture is in order, but we are relying on JD to find the guy to remove it. Which is asking a LOT

or 4)
a) immediate cut deadwood that is Lindgren, and Zib [dif but doable if you listen to bern]

b) try to move bread, see if after that Shesty is open to go to LA
EDIT ADD: sell high on Fox before he gets any slower

c) play da kids, keeping Kreider + Tro for now

Igor in net and Fox on D means the teams not rebuilding

It’s a retool which means some balzy moves coming

Pray they hit on Perrault being real good

Trading Kreider , Kakko , Lindgren is gonna happen

these 2 would be a mistake to move at discount
no reason to not hold/use after ditching deadwood

 

[Shesterkybomb]

He did during the rebuild

And what did that get him? Lost revenue and no cup.

 

[bernmeister]

Dolan is not allowing another rebuild to happen because he did that already and it failed. The best approach right now is to fire Drury and new gm brings his coaches. Drury has traded our draft capital for nothing, a blatant example is trading for Riley Smith, tell me you couldn't replace him with Vesey and not know the difference? They need to just move on from Drury, he had a pretty long run here with some success but the team isn't working anymore, and most of his moves haven't proved well, the team that won for him was constructed by Gorton.

bold = no, that makes YOU feel good, it does not generate desired results

coupla these players are salvageable w/youth
REST OF THE VETS HAVE GOT TO GO
whether addition by subtraction or sell high

truth is, keeping these players gonna mostly = more of the same
their talent level, for the most part is not there
Admit this fact so you can proceed properly

 

[Mosby]

Curious what Dylan Garand's trade value is? Having a nice growth year in Hartford but no future in the org long-term with the extension of Igor.

 

[Mr Mxmzptlk]

He did during the rebuild

Look how long it took his management teams to convince him to do it (I'd still like to know how they managed it)....and it didn't take him long to derail it. I have no faith whatsoever that Rangers will ever really rebuild as long as The Dolt remains the owner.

 

[Mr Mxmzptlk]

Dolan is not allowing another rebuild to happen because he did that already and it failed. The best approach right now is to fire Drury and new gm brings his coaches. Drury has traded our draft capital for nothing, a blatant example is trading for Riley Smith, tell me you couldn't replace him with Vesey and not know the difference? They need to just move on from Drury, he had a pretty long run here with some success but the team isn't working anymore, and most of his moves haven't proved well, the team that won for him was constructed by Gorton.

While I'm not as down on Drury as most people here, I don't believe he's going to be fired any time soon. Drury has Sather's backing and as long as he remains in favor with Slats, his job is secure. However, I do believe he's got a short shelf-life. I think they'll give him about 2 years to turn things around.

And what did that get him? Lost revenue and no cup.

Dolan could care less about the cup......as we've seen he's happy and stays out of Rangers affairs as long as they are in the playoffs.

 

[RangersFan1994]

LET'S GO RANGERS. VS BLUES WELL WHO KNOWS ANYMORE CANT WAIT FOR ANOTHER LOSS. AIM FOR THE 1ST OVERALL PICK. #NYRTANKFORHAGENS LINEMATE OF GABE PERREAULT AT BC AND IS A NEED AT CENTER. MAYBE THE RANGERS ARE DOING THIS TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN