Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV (To trade or not to trade is the question)

[effen]

I don't know if you guys heard but Kakko was mishandled. We're not sure how but it surely happened!

 

[will1066]

I don't know if you guys heard but Kakko was mishandled. We're not sure how but it surely happened!

He wasn't invited to Quinn's breakfasts and it went downhill.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I wonder if they'll wait til after Christmas to announce a new coach

 

[effen]

He wasn't invited to Quinn's breakfasts and it went downhill.

No wonder Brett Howden became Stanley Cup champion Brett Howden.

 

[will1066]

No wonder Brett Howden became Stanley Cup champion Brett Howden.

You said it out loud, not me. But one can obviously come to that conclusion.

 

[NYR Viper]

Miller + Kakko for MacTavish + Mintyukov

The teams seem to be comfortable working together…

 

[Machinehead]

I don't know if you guys heard but Kakko was mishandled. We're not sure how but it surely happened!

I know you're being sarcastic but this is worth reiterating.

The Rangers took a massive L essentially just firing Buchnevich to tell Kakko "here is your spot with no competition" and he lost it to Colin Blackwell in like six games.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Miller + Kakko for MacTavish + Mintyukov

The teams seem to be comfortable working together…

I would jovo the f*** out.

Mintyukov is my Kravtsov/Rempe

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Miller + Kakko for MacTavish + Mintyukov

The teams seem to be comfortable working together…

Don't think the Ducks touch that. It would be nice though.

 

[bernmeister]

I know we aren't trading Adam Fox, but for poop and yuckles, I wonder what a package he and Kaapo would get ya.

Bern. Stay tf away.

My brain can't handle what you'd hit me with.

sorry no can do

as to the bold, lead follow or get out of the way


do not get all the sudden hate for KK, not that long ago he and Cuyle and first Chytil then even Brodz were a productive 5x5 line

stop w/instant gratification
build w/youth = cheaper than vets = roster depth + cap flexibility

 

[effen]

I know you're being sarcastic but this is worth reiterating.

The Rangers took a massive L essentially just firing Buchnevich to tell Kakko "here is your spot with no competition" and he lost it to Colin Blackwell in like six games.

It made lots of sense in video game terms.

Having seen what we've seen, it's unfathomable they didn't see at that point for 2 years his deficiencies every day in practice. Once the guy can't really skate and has a muffin shot for literally years you gotta cut bait.

Maybe they couldn't believe a 2nd overall pick was that deficient. Maybe celiac completely robbed him. I don't know.

 

[UnparalledPark]

I dont think Nill is all that different a GM than Drury. Some Ws, some Ls. Ultimately hasnt gotten over the hump.

I don’t know. I much rather have his personnel than ours.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Can someone point me to some of Drury's good moves? Maybe I'm forgetting something but imo most of his dealings have blown up in our face. Getting Quick was good.

I know you're being sarcastic but this is worth reiterating.

The Rangers took a massive L essentially just firing Buchnevich to tell Kakko "here is your spot with no competition" and he lost it to Colin Blackwell in like six games.

Losing it in 6 games was probably the problem. No patience, and then they decided he was gonna be a checker and here we are. I dont like the Buch trade but if you were committed to that then atleast give the guy half a season, we're going on a year of Mika madness and no demotion, it sends an awful message

 

[effen]

I don’t know. I much rather have his personnel than ours.

He drafted centers and they worked out. Lots of teams drafted centers and they didn't work out. Development is random.

 

[Machinehead]

Losing it in 6 games was probably the problem. No patience, and then they decided he was gonna be a checker and here we are. I dont like the Buch trade but if you were committed to that then atleast give the guy half a season, we're going on a year of Mika madness and no demotion, it sends an awful message

It's a fair point but he still hasn't done anything to keep a top six spot. The hole in the top six is still there.

 

[effen]

Can someone point me to some of Drury's good moves? Maybe I'm forgetting something but imo most of his dealings have blown up in our face. Getting Quick was good.


Losing it in 6 games was probably the problem. No patience, and then they decided he was gonna be a checker and here we are. I dont like the Buch trade but if you were committed to that then atleast give the guy half a season, we're going on a year of Mika madness and no demotion, it sends an awful message

Vatrano for a 4th was good business.
Georgiev for 3rd, 3rd, 5th was more than most assumed he'd get.
Nils for a 1st, 4th.
Drafts have been very good.
Signed Fox
Signed Trochek.

It's a fair point but he still hasn't done anything to keep a top six spot. The hole in the top six is still there.

They give him the spot every year and every year he does nothing and loses it. Takes over 0 games. Dangles 0 guys. Bull rushes 0 guys. Pulls up and rips a wrister top corner 0 times.

He just not an impactful guy.

 

[UnparalledPark]

He drafted centers and they worked out. Lots of teams drafted centers and they didn't work out. Development is random.

He also drafted Dmen who could move the puck out of their own zone.

He also signed his all star G for less than 10 mil.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

It's a fair point but he still hasn't done anything to keep a top six spot. The hole in the top six is still there.

Yes, agreed, I sometimes feel it's hard on players when you change their style of play for them to get confidence back, I mean he was coming in as a high draft pick, goal scorer and they basically dumped all over his play and made him play defense. The confidence to do what he did before we drafted him is gone. I look at Laf as an example, if Laviolette didn't drop him on Panarins line where would he be now? Sometimes all it takes is some confidence imo. There's no doubt Celebrini will come along quicker than our guys because hes being relied on. I also believe the twins decide who's playing with them and that you have to play their game and not his.

 

[Levitate]

It's a fair point but he still hasn't done anything to keep a top six spot. The hole in the top six is still there.

I mean there's a lot of gaping holes in the top six at this point.

I find it, uh, interesting that people are coming back to pick on Kakko while the whole team outside a guy shooting hot as hell basically looks like shit.

"1st" line looks like shit, our real 1st line is inconsistent and fighting it, but we gotta drill down and focus in on Kakko when he has a mediocre game or two on the 3rd line while Chytil pulls yet another "I'm coming back from injury but I can't actually do shit for 2 months until I'm back up to speed"

 

[effen]

He also drafted Dmen who could move the puck out of their own zone.

He also signed his all star G for less than 10 mil.

Sure? You can certainly say broadly his drafting is good. Individual guys working out is largely variance.

 

[effen]

Yes, agreed, I sometimes feel it's hard on players when you change their style of play for them to get confidence back, I mean he was coming in as a high draft pick, goal scorer and they basically dumped all over his play and made him play defense. The confidence to do what he did before we drafted him is gone. I look at Laf as an example, if Laviolette didn't drop him on Panarins line where would he be now? Sometimes all it takes is some confidence imo. There's no doubt Celebrini will come along quicker than our guys because hes being relied on.

I fundamentally disagree with this. Laf came on because he gained a half step skating and his anticipation WAY improved so he played a lot faster. He would have succeeded on Panarin's line or not.

Kakko not having demonstrable top 6 offensive skills at really any point of his career has nothing to do with David Quinn wanting him to play defense 6 years ago.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I fundamentally disagree with this. Laf came on because he gained a half step skating and his anticipation WAY improved so he played a lot faster. He would have succeeded on Panarin's line or not.

Kakko not having demonstrable top 6 offensive skills at really any point of his career has nothing to do with David Quinn wanting him to play defense 6 years ago.

I disagree, he looked exactly the same in preseason when he wasn't on Panarins line as he did the year before. It was only when he joined that line he got some pep in his step. A lot of people were still calling him a bust in preseason.

Vatrano for a 4th was good business.
Georgiev for 3rd, 3rd, 5th was more than most assumed he'd get.
Nils for a 1st, 4th.
Drafts have been very good.
Signed Fox
Signed Trochek.


They give him the spot every year and every year he does nothing and loses it. Takes over 0 games. Dangles 0 guys. Bull rushes 0 guys. Pulls up and rips a wrister top corner 0 times.

He just not an impactful guy.

Just for reference, here's Jeff gortons last draft with the Rangers.

 

[Savant]

Can someone point me to some of Drury's good moves? Maybe I'm forgetting something but imo most of his dealings have blown up in our face. Getting Quick was good.


Losing it in 6 games was probably the problem. No patience, and then they decided he was gonna be a checker and here we are. I dont like the Buch trade but if you were committed to that then atleast give the guy half a season, we're going on a year of Mika madness and no demotion, it sends an awful message

The thing with Drury is he doesn't have a lot of GOOD moves. He has great moves, and he has terrible moves. Nothing in the middle

 

[RagFinMet]

I mean there's a lot of gaping holes in the top six at this point.

I find it, uh, interesting that people are coming back to pick on Kakko while the whole team outside a guy shooting hot as hell basically looks like shit.

"1st" line looks like shit, our real 1st line is inconsistent and fighting it, but we gotta drill down and focus in on Kakko when he has a mediocre game or two on the 3rd line while Chytil pulls yet another "I'm coming back from injury but I can't actually do shit for 2 months until I'm back up to speed"

This is what this forum does..
After Kakko scores the game winner just a few games ago, everyone was kissing Kakko's butt..
His play then dips as all players game's have peaks and valleys, now he's a loser and needs to be traded..
He still leads the team in +/-
As do his linemates
They are still our best overall line
Could he be replaced by Berard on that line?
Sure
I'd rather have both players as KK still has room to get better and become more consistent and he can play Center in a pinch

 

[mike14]

Can someone point me to some of Drury's good moves? Maybe I'm forgetting something but imo most of his dealings have blown up in our face. Getting Quick was good.


Losing it in 6 games was probably the problem. No patience, and then they decided he was gonna be a checker and here we are. I dont like the Buch trade but if you were committed to that then atleast give the guy half a season, we're going on a year of Mika madness and no demotion, it sends an awful message

Everyone will have different option but for 'good' I'd have:
- His drafting has been pretty good
- Motte the 1st time
- Mikkola and Tarasenko was a good move
- both getting Goodrow and getting rid of Goodrow with no retention (even though apparently it has ruined the locker room somehow)
- moving on from Trouba with no retention
- Laf contract (and Chytil)
- Carrick is looking like a good move
- Vesey
- Trochek