Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIII

[DutchShamrock]

When Gorton was running the Bruins with Chiarelli, rebuilding that team, which ultimately won the SC, they drafted Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, etc...BUT, they also signed Chara as a FA from Ottawa. Without Chara, the Bruins don't win the cup, even though it took a few years to win it!
The point I'm trying to make, is that I think the Rangers will sign a true elite player if it makes sense $$/length wise. I'm also thinking that they trade SOME of the current young guys they've drafted/acquired, if they get other similar aged players, that fill holes in other positions.

They signed Marc Savard that same off season on top of it. Trade away Joe Thornton, sign two UFAs, and refuse to sit in the cellar for more than a season? Blasphemy! Maybe people blocked the memory.

In all seriousness, it just illustrates that there is more than one way to build a winner. The Bruins were one loss away from falling just as short as us and creating a different narrative. All those chances, losing to the hawks and canucks. Getting far but not enough. All because they signed Chara and blew it. At least Savard had the decency to get murdered on the ice and prove how dumb it is signing free agents. The margin is razor thin.

I'm very much on the neutral camp for signing Panarin. He won't turn this around on his own, certainly not with an older Lundqvist and no defense. Even with Hughes. He won't sabotage the rebuild. Maybe his prime won't line up. Still moot until July.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I asked this to someone else and I'll ask this here...

Based off of what? The assumption that he'll need to adjust to the NA rink?

There's no adjustment when it comes to rink size. There are teams in the KHL that play on smaller ice, these kids play international tournaments on different rink sizes. It's a myth.

To me, it's either NHL or KHL. There's no upside to him playing in the AHL other than the Rangers being in control (which is a non issue for a team like the Rangers). I want him to have the same development as guys like Kucherov, Kuznetsov, Tarasenko etc. Even Malkin stayed in Russia for 2 years after being drafted. The first season was the lockout but still, he stayed in Russia and came over for his D+3 season. Tarasenko (D+4) and Kuznetsov (D+5) both came over later. Let Kravtsov develop where he has the best chance to play a lot against quality opponents

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

There's no adjustment when it comes to rink size. There are teams in the KHL that play on smaller ice, these kids play international tournaments on different rink sizes. It's a myth.

To me, it's either NHL or KHL. There's no upside to him playing in the AHL other than the Rangers being in control (which is a non issue for a team like the Rangers). I want him to have the same development as guys like Kucherov, Kuznetsov, Tarasenko etc. Even Malkin stayed in Russia for 2 years after being drafted. The first season was the lockout but still, he stayed in Russia and came over for his D+3 season. Tarasenko (D+4) and Kuznetsov (D+5) both came over later. Let Kravtsov develop where he has the best chance to play a lot against quality opponents

There were contractual/lockout reasons why those guys stayed over though.

I wouldn't want him signing a multi year deal over there. We'll see how he closes out the season (if he rips apart that league, it's time to make the jump over.) If he stays at or around the same pace that he's been on this season, then another year over in the KHL wouldn't be the worst thing.

I'd still want him here though.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

There may be;
Duchene
Spezza
Dzingel
Brassard?
Gourde?
E Staal?
Filpulla

Some of these guys won't move due to where their team is. Some will though.

You can nix Gourde from that list

 

[NYR713]

First month in the books. Everyone has gotten a look and there has been some time for young guys to settle in with vet leadership. Time to start working on moving some bodies that are just in the way.

Hold on a bit for Zucc and Hayes, unless blown away by a great offer this early, but time for Spooner, Namestnikov, McQuaid, Smith(if possible with some retention maybe) to be shopped hard and take what they can get to open up some roster spots. I don't see any of their trade values going any higher and they really are just in the way right now. While I generally like Lettieri as a spark plug, he could take a Hartford break. If there is a decent offer for Vesey, take that too. I don't hate him like many do, because if they used him properly in a 4th line role I think he's effective. But, they seem adamant that he needs to be in top 9 and it just isn't working.

Chytil and Buch need to play top 9 (or at least play in Buch's case).

Andersson can get at least a cup of coffee for a few games, even on wing if necessary, and earn his way into staying up or going back for the heavier minutes.

Fogarty is deserving of a 4th line C trial too. Sure his shooting % is ridiculous, but the point totals in the A just shows me that he's finding a little more of that side of the game, not something I'd expect to translate to NHL. But, he looked great as a 4th line option in the preseason and has paid his dues.

ADA should stay in the lineup; Claesson will be a solid #7 when he returns in a few weeks. They obviously are going to give Staal the protected veteran treatment whether he plays good or bad, which we all know is mostly bad.

I get that they aren't going to go with a full roster of 19-21 yr olds, but they can move all that dead weight and still have plenty of veteran leaders on the team. I also get that the coaching staff wants to put their best foot forward in their first year and management needs to have enough of a product on the ice to sell tickets, but it's a rebuild and development season and they need to start focusing on that. The fans are on board. Develop some more kids and people will still show up and spend money.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

You can nix Gourde from that list

How are they fitting all these contracts?? They have to dump bad contracts soon

 

[DutchShamrock]

You can nix Gourde from that list

14 players signed for $70m plus. I don't know how they'll get everyone signed, plus Point is RFA.

 

[Lion Hound]

You can nix Gourde from that list

I feel like the Tampa Bay Organization lives under a different Salary Cap!

 

[Trxjw]

Tampa is going to bridge Point for sure, which will certainly help things. I'd expect them to try and move guys like Palat, Johnson, and/or Killorn for similar tier defensemen next summer.

 

[LORDE]

From 2011-2017, the Rangers were in 3 ECF (won 1, lost to NJ and TB) in a 4 year stretch. They obviously lost in one SCF. Using 2 totally different coaching styles, with a lot of the same core.

Because it didn't result in a cup people have just thrown out that period as everything bad, which I don't agree with. You can say "build a cup winner" all you want but that only means something after the fact. What we're trying to do is build a perennial cup contender. There's randomness involved, with injuries and matchups that you can't account for in building. There's individual games where they didn't execute, and coaching blunders that cost us, but I don't think

Maybe this doesn't make a lot of sense. I just get this feeling that people are so hurt by not winning the cup they're on this idea that everything has to be different. and they're chasing this model idea of what a SC winner has to look like. Our whole strategy was/is flawed and that core wasn't good enough, and I just don't agree with it. There's definite lessons to be learned from that period, namely when to cut bait with aging players. But a lot of things went right, and I'll take my chances at playing in 3 ECF in 4 years any day. I'm also someone who believes in randomness and luck having a much larger role in things than most people though.

I think it's reasonable to say that those teams overachieved.

Our "elite" player was in net. Our defense was suspect at times and we had issues scoring goals at key moments. Now scoring goals IS hard but when games were tied we rarely (against LA) never came through. We had leads and blew them.

What I and I'm sure others want is a team that doesn't NEED to overachieve to win a cup. Even then you may the Capitals who still don't win (until last season).

That's the model you want. Having many shots at it, because there's still injuries, and luck... of and another team(s) of skilled professionals who have given their blood, sweat and tears too.

We needed more than Hank. We needed more than McD and we certainly needed more than Nash.

 

[Konamic Ice Hockey]

There's no adjustment when it comes to rink size. There are teams in the KHL that play on smaller ice, these kids play international tournaments on different rink sizes. It's a myth.

To me, it's either NHL or KHL. There's no upside to him playing in the AHL other than the Rangers being in control (which is a non issue for a team like the Rangers). I want him to have the same development as guys like Kucherov, Kuznetsov, Tarasenko etc. Even Malkin stayed in Russia for 2 years after being drafted. The first season was the lockout but still, he stayed in Russia and came over for his D+3 season. Tarasenko (D+4) and Kuznetsov (D+5) both came over later. Let Kravtsov develop where he has the best chance to play a lot against quality opponents

The AHL vs KHL for development I do not know what would be better, I tend to think for a kid staying in your home country would be good while you are still developing in the game and also as a person. But saying that there is no adjustment between the different size rinks is nonsense. I have played on both and it is easier to go from roller to ice on the same size rink then it is to go to the wider/narrower rink. Besides the style, angles are all off. Besides the rink size/shape the speed and style are very different. Visual cues as to where you are on the ice are off also, this is more important for D but it is still a thing.
I do think it is something that can be handled from the summer thru training camp, maybe a month or two in the A.

 

[NYR]

When Gorton was running the Bruins with Chiarelli, rebuilding that team, which ultimately won the SC, they drafted Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, etc...BUT, they also signed Chara as a FA from Ottawa. Without Chara, the Bruins don't win the cup, even though it took a few years to win it!
The point I'm trying to make, is that I think the Rangers will sign a true elite player if it makes sense $$/length wise. I'm also thinking that they trade SOME of the current young guys they've drafted/acquired, if they get other similar aged players, that fill holes in other positions.

JG was the GM of the Bruins (March 25, 2006 until July 15, 2006) for all of 4 months.
I think it's safe to say that JG's success and winning the SC was entirely attributed to all the ground work that O'Connell had already laid out, including the scouting staff.
JG was canned and replaced by Chiarelli soon after.

Just thought I'd point that out to the nutty JG fans out there

 

[Thirty One]

JG was the GM of the Bruins (March 25, 2006 until July 15, 2006) for all of 4 months.
I think it's safe to say that JG's success and winning the SC was entirely attributed to all the ground work that O'Connell had already laid out, including the scouting staff.
JG was canned and replaced by Chiarelli soon after.

Just thought I'd point that out to the nutty JG fans out there

Including the scouting staff, and obviously including the assistant GM, right?

 

[NYR]

Including the scouting staff, and obviously including the assistant GM, right?

They were all already in place and the assistant GM, Chiarelli took his job..

 

[Thirty One]

They were all already in place and the assistant GM, Chiarelli took his job..

No.

 

[DutchShamrock]

JG was the GM of the Bruins (March 25, 2006 until July 15, 2006) for all of 4 months.
I think it's safe to say that JG's success and winning the SC was entirely attributed to all the ground work that O'Connell had already laid out, including the scouting staff.
JG was canned and replaced by Chiarelli soon after.

Just thought I'd point that out to the nutty JG fans out there

It's an interesting debate. He signed Savard and Chara, and had a ridiculous draft in those 4 months. I would say that's a huge footprint. It's one of those things, if you say it's all scouts and your staff, why is he taking blame for failings? For the sake of consistency, the Bruins cup foundation was started during his tenure.

 

[NYR]

No.

Yes.

 

[NYR]

It's an interesting debate. He signed Savard and Chara, and had a ridiculous draft in those 4 months. I would say that's a huge footprint. It's one of those things, if you say it's all scouts and your staff, why is he taking blame for failings? For the sake of consistency, the Bruins cup foundation was started during his tenure.

It's really it's an interesting debate but it's all spelt out for the most part.

O'Connell was let go because he went against ownership.

Did JG make a few decent signings?

Yes but he didn't do much else other that follow the path that was already laid out for him and ultimately wasn't trusted enough to take over permanently.

 

[Irishguy42]

Chiarelli wasn't AGM for the Bruins...

At least make an effort to get some things correct here.

 

[NYR]

Chiarelli wasn't AGM for the Bruins...

At least make an effort to get some things correct here.

My mistake..I thought Chiarelli was AGM for a short time.
JG re-assumed as AGM after Chiarelli was brought in.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

You can nix Gourde from that list

LMFAO

6 years for a 27 year old with one good season?

Good luck, Tampa

 

[Ola]

Kravtsov doesn't seem ready to just barge in and do more than Chytil has thus far...

A positive thing with Kravtsov is that his transition will be so straight forward for his bread and butter game. He is really good at that speedy forechecking/attack of the rush game. He can easily fit in on a depth line too.

I wouldn’t bet the house on him doing really well from the get go, but it’s easier for a player like that than guys like Chyts and Andersson that so easy will dissaprear in games if they can’t dominate. With Kravtsov engine and speed he can like play a bit of a Cally game if you get what I mean. Contribute by pushing the puck and skating it up ice, put shots on the net.

 

[Ola]

5.6m per is the new 3m per.

Tawnos has a really good point above though. Need to look at % of cap not the number with the cap going up as fast as it is.

That is one problem I have with the Hayes contract. How much is he really asking for? I think there is a bit of a risk with seing yikes 5+m??? The cap is 80m it was lit that long a go it was 60m...

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

see now i disagree.

if we are all about developing players, hes a kid we should develop and soon. if chytl can stay then kravtsov can stay as well. andersson should also be up and playing.

chytl to me has been misused and has been subpar so far. he needs top 9 minutes and some pp.

the talent is there with these kids. just have to use it properly.

also, with buch, George, maybe shesty, maybe panarin thats a whole lot of support for the kid

Buchnevich is not cat catching on himself, he's had time... guess we'll see but i don't see any franchise guys in the making besides Miller, MAYBE... yeah, early to say. But the guys some expect to step in and contribute right away, would necessarily have to be dominant in their own leagues (Ovechkin was different, every knew he could have been in the NHL at 15-16). Miller is the only dominant one so far.

 

[Ola]

How long will a rebuild take?

Had a rerun of the LAK Philly game on earlier, 5-2 to Philly. Damn what it is ineffective to play with vets in this league, the little slower type. They are playing with the handbrake on. Doing the ‘right things’. Then they face some younger guys that just hits the ices and goes to the net and play with speed and the outcome is a given.

It’s very good for us to rebuild when the game is changing as much as it is right now. It sounded like every other player had lost 20 lbs in camp this summer. The younger kids will successful. Howden has been great for us. Chyts still 19 and Lias need to add a step. Kravtsov should do well.

I think it’s a lot more important to have speed on the blueline rather than stability. Dion Phaneuff, Martinez and co are among LAKs biggest problems, you need Ds that moves around, take apart of a dynamic offense.