Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIII

[LaffyTaffy]

I think our farm team is getting too crowded, I would look into using someone like Nieves as additions to deals.

 

[Fitzy]

I think our farm team is getting too crowded, I would look into using someone like Nieves as additions to deals.

I don't think Nieves has any real trade value.

 

[Fitzy]

Don't worry.

Quinn will find something wrong with Kakko or Kravtsov.

Quinn wants every player to play the same way. Straight ahead. No creativity. Get the puck in deep. Get the puck on net.

I don't know why this surprises people. The NCAA game is very meat-and-potatoes. That's why you see a much better translation to the pro game of NCAA guys who play two-way, traditional 3rd line hockey. Guys like Pat Kane and Paul Kariya are very rare.

College coaches are largely going to emphasize low-risk hockey.

 

[NYR Viper]

If I were Gorton, I'd be looking at a guy like Kassian to augment the 4th line. I'd hope to move a guy off the NHL roster and a prospect who seems to be stalling like Pedrie to create some room down in the AHL. Kassian would be a nice addition to the 4th line.

 

[Fitzy]

If I were Gorton, I'd be looking at a guy like Kassian to augment the 4th line. I'd hope to move a guy off the NHL roster and a prospect who seems to be stalling like Pedrie to create some room down in the AHL. Kassian would be a nice addition to the 4th line.

So would Beleskey, and giving him NHL time might actually get him into trade-value territory again.

I'd rather see Beleskey on the 4th line than Letteiri. Let Vinny go down and offer a better scoring option on Andersson's wing.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I think our farm team is getting too crowded, I would look into using someone like Nieves as additions to deals.

Of what the Rangers would consider dealing, there's not a whole ton of value there.

 

[RangerBoy]

I dunno, I see a lot of different styles out there. Zucc is technically on pace for his best offensive season at the moment, same for Zibanejad and Kreider.

I see a lot of different approaches out there. I think his underlying point has been more about effort than about style points.

Quinn keeps saying "work harder".

What does that mean?

 

[Mac n Gs]

I'm not crazy about McLeod. I was not happy with him last year and though I thought the Rangers needed to get gnarlier I thought that there were other better choices they could have made than bring back Cody. They didn't go for those other options. Quinn wants a team that will defend itself--will push back when pushed. And it's a reason why I think we brought McQuaid in as well. Other teams know the Rangers aren't that good but they won't be a pushover. I look at both McLeod and McQuaid as necessary but at the same time temporary players. And what they bring to the team can be infectious. In the first San Jose game for instance Jesper Fast faces off with Brenden Dillon after Dillon caught Buchnevich with his head down. Kane steps in and Fast thinks better of it but this is stuff that Fast (or most other Rangers) would never do before and FWIW Dillon didn't need Kane at all--Dillon can handle himself. Rangers have had five fights this year. Do I think fighting is great? Not really---but I think it's necessary at times and it builds team character and morale when there are multiple players who will defend not only themselves but also other teammates. The Rangers are defending themselves this year. It's a big change from what was happening with AV where they were backing off all the time.

It also speaks to the fly-by's. Quinn wants his team physically engaged. That doesn't mean take stupid penalties but when a hit is there you make the hit--you don't pass it up--when it's your turn to take a hit to make a play you take the hit. Being consistent at doing that is a way of sending a message to the rest of the league that the team will work hard and won't be intimidated. Pretty much the first thing the team worked on in training camp was board and one on one battles. And the newer Rangers learning this from the get go is a good thing. It needs to be part of their programming. I also like that Quinn doesn't throw AV under the bus and why should he? but there are definite differences between how AV wanted his players to play and how Quinn wants his to play and IMO they almost all favor Quinn's approach over AV's.

To address your second paragraph: I like Quinn’s “make them go through you” mentality. It inherently means that these guys are in position to make plays on the puck and that the other team has no space on the ice. The best way to win in this current NHL is constant pressure and not yielding time/space to your opponent. Players are too skilled and fast now, so the proper layers and structure to contain the puck need to be in place at all times. For example, Skjei made the proper read to pinch up and help apply offensive pressure on the puck before Meier’s goal. Lettieri has to notice that and get his ass back to cover Skjei and help ADA stymy a counter-attack.

The same applies on the forecheck. I want to see these guys being f***ing hounds on the puck and driving teams crazy with how tough it is for them to move the puck. RBA has Carolina playing this way, and they’ve been absolutely taking teams to town this season. It’s a shame Darling f***ing sucks because be blew that Boston game for them.

It’s working better in the offensive zone right now, and we’re actually one of the more statistically dangerous teams in the league. If they can get this same mentality going while defending the neutral zone, I think we’ll start seeing a team that plays pretty similarly to what the USDP does.

 

[RangerBoy]

“Yeah, and that’s why they’re on that board,” said Darren Dreger during a Wednesday afternoon radio hit on Winnipeg’s TSN 1290. “There’s been some whispering around both Zuccarello and Kevin Hayes, so I wasn’t at all surprised to see those two names on that board, and those names are legit.

“I think the New York Rangers, they want to go about this in a patient but kind of a kick-start rebuild, if you will. That New York market attracts a lot of players. You can’t be in a rebuild mode if all of the sudden we get through the year, things stay the way they are with the Columbus Blue Jackets, Artemi Panarin all of the sudden decides he’s going into free agency, and he ends up a New York Ranger. Well, you’re not rebuilding when you’re signing a piece like that.

“I think the New York Rangers, not unlike any other year, are going to be very interesting to watch. Those pieces have been out there for awhile - it’s still too early because teams are still assessing what they have. What is the rental market? We don’t know yet, it hasn’t fully been established.

“But I think that the New York Rangers, for a lot of reasons, are going to be a team that’s going to be active at some point this year.”

Rebuilding teams don't sign free agents like Panarin.

The Rangers need a home grown superstar for their rebuild.

 

[Edge]

Quinn keeps saying "work harder".

What does that mean?

I don't really know, I'm not there having one on one conversations with the players.

But if a player is confused, I think they can certainly ask one of their comrades who don't seem to be running into the problem.

I mean, let's be honest, Quinn isn't exactly asking Buchnevich to do quantum physics here.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Rebuilding teams don't sign free agents like Panarin.

The Rangers need a home grown superstar for their rebuild.

Here’s a question: if they draft Hughes, why not sign Panarin?

 

[Edge]

Here’s a question: if they draft Hughes, why not sign Panarin?

Frankly, I think that's why Hughes is such an interesting case in this draft.

I think if the Rangers land Hughes, that changes the conversation a little bit because he's going to be a guy who comes in at a very high level, sooner rather than later. Not that other guys might not come out of the gate strong, but Hughes would certainly be at the forefront of early successes.

Additionally, if a kid like Hughes were to play for the Rangers, they probably aren't picking in the top 5 or maybe even top 10 the following season. So that also changes the path a little bit.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Frankly, I think that's why Hughes is such an interesting case in this draft.

I think if the Rangers land Hughes, that changes the conversation a little bit because he's going to be a guy who comes in at a very high level, sooner rather than later. Not that other guys might not come out of the gate strong, but Hughes would certainly be at the forefront of early successes.

Additionally, if a kid like Hughes were to play for the Rangers, they probably aren't picking in the top 5 or maybe even top 10 the following season. So that also changes the path a little bit.

Yeah, I think the big question that will get answered at the draft lottery will be “How long is this rebuild going to be?” If the Rangers get the Hughes/Kakko pick, I think the answer is sooner than if they get a Cozens/Dach/Newhook/etc

 

[NY Lito]

Rebuilding teams don't sign free agents like Panarin.

The Rangers need a home grown superstar for their rebuild.

Except can’t miss superstars are few and far between. What if we don’t get Hughes (only “surefire” thing in this draft)? Just cross your fingers and hope Chytil and Krav reach their full potential? Try again next lottery?

 

[Edge]

Except can’t miss superstars are few and far between. What if we don’t get Hughes (only “surefire” thing in this draft)? Just cross your fingers and hope Chytil and Krav reach their full potential? Try again next lottery?

I think the Rangers will have an interest in Panarin no matter what because of his age and because they aren't exactly overflowing with wings in the system. The mindset could very well be that they'd like to surround their young center talent with great talent. Whether a guy like Panarin is up for something like that is another matter.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Quinn keeps saying "work harder".

What does that mean?

I think it means different things for different players, but the constant theme is to engage in puck battles and make life harder for your opponent.

Buchnevich is a prime example of a guy that isn't really interested in much if he's not in the offensive zone. He doesn't engage in puck battles, he just sort of glides past them. He could play the game on water skis. That's unacceptable. For me, this is a perfectly reasonable core message for a team that isn't winning any talent contests anytime soon.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I think it means different things for different players, but the constant theme is to engage in puck battles and make life harder for your opponent.

Buchnevich is a prime example of a guy that isn't really interested in much if he's not in the offensive zone. He doesn't engage in puck battles, he just sort of glides past them. He could play the game on water skis. That's unacceptable. For me, this is a perfectly reasonable core message for a team that isn't winning any talent contests anytime soon.

Agreed. To me it means find a way to make a difference when you're on the ice. Don't just take a shift. Find a way to stand out for the betterment of the team. If you are a goal scorer and don't score, win a battle along the boards, keep a puck in the zone, back check, help the D, etc.

 

[eco's bones]

To address your second paragraph: I like Quinn’s “make them go through you” mentality. It inherently means that these guys are in position to make plays on the puck and that the other team has no space on the ice. The best way to win in this current NHL is constant pressure and not yielding time/space to your opponent. Players are too skilled and fast now, so the proper layers and structure to contain the puck need to be in place at all times. For example, Skjei made the proper read to pinch up and help apply offensive pressure on the puck before Meier’s goal. Lettieri has to notice that and get his ass back to cover Skjei and help ADA stymy a counter-attack.

The same applies on the forecheck. I want to see these guys being ****ing hounds on the puck and driving teams crazy with how tough it is for them to move the puck. RBA has Carolina playing this way, and they’ve been absolutely taking teams to town this season. It’s a shame Darling ****ing sucks because be blew that Boston game for them.

It’s working better in the offensive zone right now, and we’re actually one of the more statistically dangerous teams in the league. If they can get this same mentality going while defending the neutral zone, I think we’ll start seeing a team that plays pretty similarly to what the USDP does.

Great post.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Except can’t miss superstars are few and far between. What if we don’t get Hughes (only “surefire” thing in this draft)? Just cross your fingers and hope Chytil and Krav reach their full potential? Try again next lottery?

this is my only concern with the rebuild It cannot only revolve on nailing the 1/2 pick. They have to draft well regardless of where they are.

It can't be that the rebuild gets pushed out because they ended up with the 4th or 5th pick. Though I know that is absolutely going to be the argument from some people here if it happens. As if playing an 82 game season as the worst team, and then nailing an 18.5% chance for 1st is THE strategy.

 

[duhmetreE]

To address your second paragraph: I like Quinn’s “make them go through you” mentality. It inherently means that these guys are in position to make plays on the puck and that the other team has no space on the ice. The best way to win in this current NHL is constant pressure and not yielding time/space to your opponent. Players are too skilled and fast now, so the proper layers and structure to contain the puck need to be in place at all times. For example, Skjei made the proper read to pinch up and help apply offensive pressure on the puck before Meier’s goal. Lettieri has to notice that and get his ass back to cover Skjei and help ADA stymy a counter-attack.

The same applies on the forecheck. I want to see these guys being ****ing hounds on the puck and driving teams crazy with how tough it is for them to move the puck. RBA has Carolina playing this way, and they’ve been absolutely taking teams to town this season. It’s a shame Darling ****ing sucks because be blew that Boston game for them.

It’s working better in the offensive zone right now, and we’re actually one of the more statistically dangerous teams in the league. If they can get this same mentality going while defending the neutral zone, I think we’ll start seeing a team that plays pretty similarly to what the USDP does.

I think the neutral zone play suffers and we give up a lot of odd man breaks for that reason. 2 deep in on the forecheck. 1 on or around the blueline supporting the front 2.

The defenseman could be aggressive in the neutral zone but they typically are the opposite. They back up, playing passively into their zone, giving easy entry and lots of space. I'd like to see some adjustments there. Maybe they are playing this way because they were giving too many odd man breaks earlier in the season

Somewhat related, getting out of the zone has been rough. There's little to no support on the puck, once possession is gained. The puck carrier typically throws it off the boards; mostly everything is on the perimeter. I feel that's very easy to suffocate and clamp down on, in the NHL. Having one in the middle of the ice, similar to AV's breakout, would be nice.

Hopefully some tuning and adjustments are made

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

this is my only concern with the rebuild It cannot only revolve on nailing the 1/2 pick. They have to draft well regardless of where they are.

It can't be that the rebuild gets pushed out because they ended up with the 4th or 5th pick. Though I know that is absolutely going to be the argument from some people here if it happens. As if playing an 82 game season as the worst team, and then nailing an 18.5% chance for 1st is THE strategy.

It can't, and it probably won't. But, yes, the Rangers had a prolonged period of success drafting 2nd/3rd line tweener guys that led to an absurd amount of depth who, along with an all-world goalie, had a sustained period of competing at the highest levels of the league. The Rangers should have a few picks coming their way, and cant loose site of the need for drafting Dubinky's, Callahans, Stepans, Hagelins, etc, etc

 

[Avery16]

If I were Gorton, I'd be looking at a guy like Kassian to augment the 4th line. I'd hope to move a guy off the NHL roster and a prospect who seems to be stalling like Pedrie to create some room down in the AHL. Kassian would be a nice addition to the 4th line.

Why would we trade for a reclamation project like Kassian in the hope that he could provide for us something that Beleskey already does?

 

[Mac n Gs]

I think the neutral zone play suffers and we give up a lot of odd man breaks for that reason. 2 deep in on the forecheck. 1 on or around the blueline supporting the front 2.

The defenseman could be aggressive in the neutral zone but they typically are the opposite. They back up, playing passively into their zone, giving easy entry and lots of space. I'd like to see some adjustments there. Maybe they are playing this way because they were giving too many odd man breaks earlier in the season

Somewhat related, getting out of the zone has been rough. There's little to no support on the puck, once possession is gained. The puck carrier typically throws it off the boards; mostly everything is on the perimeter. I feel that's very easy to suffocate and clamp down on, in the NHL. Having one in the middle of the ice, similar to AV's breakout, would be nice.

Hopefully some tuning and adjustments are made

Well this is where coaching and communication becomes vital. All good teams are aggressive and know when it’s time to sit back and not let teams counterattack- hell, it’s why AV got clowned these past two years. However, as an overall template of play, an aggressive forecheck needs to have F2 and F3 being better about controlling the middle of the ice. I want teams to have to force opposition to move the puck up the wall because it means you’re gonna have a higher probability of getting the puck back.

From our end, it’s part of why we’ve struggled breaking it out this year. Some of it is poor decision making by our d, but other times it’s because we aren’t positioned well enough to lead the play up ice in a 5-man unit. AV didn’t utilize the middle for breakouts. He had his guys fly high and try to stretch teams from the red line and in with stretch passes.

What you’re asking for is exactly what I want to see happen: utilize your nearside C and W to be an outlet for the dmen to help break pressure, and then have them get it to a high W to carry it into the zone. Once you have that set up, you allow that high W to draw d in while your trailing forwards are open for drop passes and can exploit any seams your high W opened in the defense.

 

[McRanger]

Quinn keeps saying "work harder".

What does that mean?

Optimistically? Its standard coach-speak and hes trying to round out Buch's game as much as he can while hes still youngish and malleable. This whole thing is about getting the best out of his players (and team) and not at all about showing everyone who's boss. Best case scenario, something clicks and Buch's game improves, at least somewhat. Worst case scenario the coach realizes Buch isn't going to change much, plays him anyway, and he ends up like Kreider, an asset on the ice but a guy who still has the same problems of consistency and lack of engagement he had at 18, and likely always will have.

Pessimistically? It means we're placing less emphasis on being offensively productive or defensively competent than we are about trying (or at least looking like we're trying) really really REALLY hard, and Buch either plays the way Quinn envisions or he'll replace him in the lineup, albeit with someone who is probably significantly worse. Buch spends the year in no mans land and when hes an RFA this summer we either trade him for little or he leaves for Russia for nothing. Marc Staal plays ~20 minutes a game for the whole season because having one good eye just means his heart is that much bigger. The big winners are the people who watch hockey for the entertainment of seeing players "do the little things" on the ice.

I would guess the former, but I've seen enough stupidity through the years that the latter still concerns me.

 

[Trxjw]

Hughes totally changes the dynamic of this franchise almost over night. He's the franchise center we've lacked for years. He immediately takes the pressure off of Chyil and Andersson to be top line centers, or perhaps even centers at all. Cuts loads of time off the rebuild.

Additionally, if you add Hughes and sign Panarin you now have two thirds of an elite top line and it opens up a world of possibilities for what you could do with the other pieces you have in the system. Does it make Zibanejad more available? Kreider? Can the Rangers turn one of them and another piece into that top pair defensemen they so badly need? Very exciting to think about.