Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[haohmaru]

Yeah, no.

I respect your right to your opinion.
That said, my views on how they should deal long term generally work.

I said trade Buch early on when he had value b'c he still had term
I said no on wasteful rentals
etc
etc
etc

don't get em all right, no one does
but extending current window IS their best path now
and coupla big deals are needed for that

if smaller options are not better [judge each situation separately on merit]
then go big or go home

Which has no relation whatsoever to the ludicrously unrealistic trades you propose that will never happen.

And almost NOBODY liked the Buch deal so that’s not one I’d hang my hat on.

 

[TGWL]

Which has no relation whatsoever to the ludicrously unrealistic trades you propose that will never happen.

And almost NOBODY liked the Buch deal so that’s not one I’d hang my hat on.

Yeah, I'd argue his value was probably high when the trade took place, it just we got taken to the wood shed on the actual trade.

 

[Mandar]

Which has no relation whatsoever to the ludicrously unrealistic trades you propose that will never happen.

And almost NOBODY liked the Buch deal so that’s not one I’d hang my hat on.

Mic Drop......

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I mean we all are probably happy that Goodrow is gone, but pretty sure his departure had some impact here.

View attachment 927353

Yeah the PK is garbage. You would think the Rongos would notice that they absolutely tear apart passive PK’s and struggle against the aggressive ones, maybe that would also apply to our own PK?? Nahhh

 

[bernmeister]

Which has no relation whatsoever to the ludicrously unrealistic trades you propose that will never happen.

And almost NOBODY liked the Buch deal so that’s not one I’d hang my hat on.

Yeah, I'd argue his value was probably high when the trade took place, it just we got taken to the wood shed on the actual trade.

Mic Drop......

respectfully disagree
yeah Buch had increased production evident later on when we dealt him
BUT
when that happened, his term was a sliver of rfa status

obv, we could have gotten more if he had less production but still showed upside potential while being offered more cheaply for longer term = greater value

given that reality, and fact we failed to make a deal earlier b'c we self rented Buch in win now posture when it was obvious to a blind man we were not gonna be cup finalists, value was not highest when we dealt him and we were lucky to get what we did under those misfire circumstances

--------

my props are arguably doable from a value standpoint at minimum
so not "ludicrously unrealistic"
howev, this misassessment is to be expected from someone who views Vesey as > than Rempe

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Oilers come to Drury with this offer:
McDavid 50% retained for Kakko + Rempe.


Bern’s response : “Absolutely not! No youth for vets!”






Just pullin your boob m8

 

[TGWL]

respectfully disagree
yeah Buch had increased production evident later on when we dealt him
BUT
when that happened, his term was a sliver of rfa status

obv, we could have gotten more if he had less production but still showed upside potential while being offered more cheaply for longer term = greater value

given that reality, and fact we failed to make a deal earlier b'c we self rented Buch in win now posture when it was obvious to a blind man we were not gonna be cup finalists, value was not highest when we dealt him and we were lucky to get what we did under those misfire circumstances

--------

my props are arguably doable from a value standpoint at minimum
so not "ludicrously unrealistic"
howev, this misassessment is to be expected from someone who views Vesey as > than Rempe

You don't just trade players away because you fear value may drop when the decision comes to actually trade him. You can't get in front of every situation just to make sure highest value was gotten on every trade. We all know players can't play prime years forever. Teams can't make decisions based on that player not being worth as much a year or 2 down the line, especially teams that want to compete.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1854560629106851922

Torts is already souring on Michkov. What would we have to offer to bring him here to play with Panarin?

Tomorrow’s Headline:

John Tortorella Fired:

NY Post Headline:
Torts Toast!

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Please make it stop.

JetBlue is having some pretty good sales these days.
I hear the internet is pretty spotty in parts of the Cayman Islands.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Oilers come to Drury with this offer:
McDavid 50% retained for Kakko + Rempe.


Bern’s response : “Absolutely not! No youth for vets!”






Just pullin your boob m8

This place is turning into Utter chaos.


Thank you, I’ll see myself out.

 

[Kords]

IGOR!??

 

[LOFIN]

Yeah whatever do it. Might regret it later. The Rangers way.

OR maybe it's Kakko 11.5x8

 

[Vitto79]

Yeah whatever do it. Might regret it later. The Rangers way.

OR maybe it's Kakko 11.5x8

I hope it’s 5 yrs max

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I hope it’s 5 yrs max

It’s 8

 

[Kords]

Interestingly that would still be less than Panarin (rightfully so)

 

[LOFIN]

Interestingly that would still be less than Panarin (rightfully so)

AAV wise, yes. Not for the whole contract.

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

Interestingly that would still be less than Panarin (rightfully so)

Must mean Panarin's gone?

 

[Vitto79]

It’s 8

Prove it lol

It all depends how good he is X yrs into his deal

 

[The Crypto Guy]

IGOR!??

GO GO GO!! SIGN IT PLEASE!@

 

[haohmaru]

my props are arguably doable from a value standpoint at minimum
so not "ludicrously unrealistic"
howev, this misassessment is to be expected from someone who views Vesey as > than Rempe

Every GM in the NHL would view Vesey as a better player than Rempe right now. Every. Single. One.

Want to revisit in a few years? Fair enough. Impact to a lineup TODAY and it's not close.

As to the "ludicrously unrealistic" let's take your proposal above:

"
1. Rs - Ds
KAM, Othmann, Lindgren, Vesey, Robertson
for
Zegras, Vatrano, Vaakanainen, Dumoulin, Helleson"

In the salary cap era (2005 - present) please point out ANY 10 player swaps between two teams that have occurred.

Next, please point out where a team that was actually in the top 5-6 to actually win a Stanley cup did such a thing.

You can't. Because it's UNREALISTIC.

 

[Irishguy42]

IGOR!??

Rempe

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

Every GM in the NHL would view Vesey as a better player than Rempe right now. Every. Single. One.

Want to revisit in a few years? Fair enough. Impact to a lineup TODAY and it's not close.

As to the "ludicrously unrealistic" let's take your proposal above:

"
1. Rs - Ds
KAM, Othmann, Lindgren, Vesey, Robertson
for
Zegras, Vatrano, Vaakanainen, Dumoulin, Helleson"

In the salary cap era (2005 - present) please point out ANY 10 player swaps between two teams that have occurred.

Next, please point out where a team that was actually in the top 5-6 to actually win a Stanley cup did such a thing.

You can't. Because it's UNREALISTIC.

Utah and Arizona just swapped entire teams. There were like 25+ players involved. Keep up.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Rempe

11.5 TOI in 2024-25?

 

[bernmeister]

Every GM in the NHL would view Vesey as a better player than Rempe right now. Every. Single. One.

Want to revisit in a few years? Fair enough. Impact to a lineup TODAY and it's not close.

As to the "ludicrously unrealistic" let's take your proposal above:

"
1. Rs - Ds
KAM, Othmann, Lindgren, Vesey, Robertson
for
Zegras, Vatrano, Vaakanainen, Dumoulin, Helleson"

In the salary cap era (2005 - present) please point out ANY 10 player swaps between two teams that have occurred.

Next, please point out where a team that was actually in the top 5-6 to actually win a Stanley cup did such a thing.

You can't. Because it's UNREALISTIC.

Guess again
Your arbitrary benchmark of 10 in a given single deal attempts to define that size of (quantity) of assets in trade automatically = unrealistic

1. realistic is dominated by quality of assets on both sides, taking into account other factors [player needs to be moved, cap considerations, etc.].

2. while rare we DO see big deals once in a while
in ever tighter cap situation, 2 teams bring in a third partner
the total assets can approach 10 or even more, but that is unnecessary since, as explained above, your methodology is erroneos

3. I did not break this down further because same is unnecessary.
But to further repudiate your erroneous assignment of 10, deals can often be subdivided into smaller deals
to illustrate in the immediate example above, doing Helleson and Robertson as a separate trade reduces it to 8 total assets in a larger deal, which prob can be subdivided further another once or twice -- howev, such hair splitting is unnecessary

------------
IF YOU WANT TO CHALLENGE MY PROP, FINE
BUT DO IT ON THE MERITS
NOT YOUR ARBITRARY BS

---------
Also
I do not have time to waste with you, but just to further prove what I said above
the site Biggest trades in hockey history - NHL Trade Tracker
lists a couple that are recent that have high quantity of assets swapped, some with conditions as well
e.g.
Guentzel deal, 2 players to CAR, 6 assets to PIT - 9 total
also the Erik Karlson deal [SJ-PIT] was 7 assets, but notes MON was third team so something further there

---------
Finally the ultimate rejection of your arbitrary postulate is that in sports, while rarest of rare, in NFL one trade -- forget the name -- 1 guy traded for like 10.
And most exceptional, 2 franchise swapped entire teams, all assets for each other.

***********************
And I have already listed why you choose to ignore that instead
Rempe >> Vesey right now
he has upside JV does not

 

[bernmeister]

to repeat what I said in post 1565 since some have missed it:

Rempe has size, reach, strength, stamina, energy, straight away speed

Vesey MAY be SLIGHTLY better east-west skating

Rempe, like Kreider before him, has to learn how to score at NHL
Not for nothing, Jimmy V never was confused for a scorer or sniper.

Rempe can for now be an effective component in a properly built line [Vesey, not so much]. You'll recall I said one formula for a successful line =
driver of play + facilitator + scorer
while he's a bit rough around the edges, obv, Rempe's physical dominance qualifies him as potential 'driver of play' in that equation

And as to checking, Vesey is ok, but ordinary at best
While Rempe has room for improvement, when he checks you, you feel it.
He's a PITA to play vs
He forces opponents to modify to avoid getting hit

Vesey.... not so much

wanna debate the above? fine
but no more arbitrary nonsense without substantiation