Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[bleedblue94]

Oops.

The series was basically a microcosm of what the teams were. Hurricanes doing what they did with zone time and shot volume in place of quality and the Rangers getting the share of quality.

I don't need to rewrite history, I remember how that series went but it seems like you don't.

They controlled the 3rd period of game 6 which led directly to that comeback. They were in trouble had they lost that game but they didn't and it wasn't just Igor that won it for them. Carolina turtled and opened the door, but the Rangers tore it off the hinges and burned down their house. They 100% deserved to win that game.

Igor was kind of a dud in games 4 and 5 btw where he posted -GSAA's.

G4:MoneyPuck.com
G5: MoneyPuck.com


G4 in particular was very winnable. G5 was just a shit performance all around, they deserved what they got there.

Anyway this is off topic now and you don't seem interested in having an actual conversation in good faith so I'm out.

So again, you watched the last 8 games of last year's playoffs and feel that the rangers were not outworked in those games and outplayed?

Igor was a dud in two games (they lost surprise) and anyone watching knows the canes goaltending lost them that series. Shit, even rangers analysts were saying that the canes lost the series bc of goaltending more than nyr actually won the series (Freddie anderson to the rescue again). I'm not going to argue this with twitter posts, I'm really not. If you watched those last 8 games of their playoffs and felt that nyr was actually playing on the same level as the canes and cats then we did not see the same thing and it's pointless to go any further on this.

 

[bleedblue94]

It’s interesting to talk about the 92-93 team right now (our 24-25)… I think some parallels were drawn last year to the ‘94 team because of the anniversary, but there’s the potential for it to be our 91-92 parallel. How many significant players were moved the very next year (92-93, our 24-25), leading to the ‘94 win?

A lot were at the ‘94 TDL but a good handful happened in ‘93. We’re coming off of a President’s Trophy win but looking like we could easily crater out of the playoffs and looking at a window to make some big changes.

Immediately after winning the President’s Trophy in 91-92, over the next 12 months the Rangers traded Gartner for Andersson, a young Weight for Tikkanen, Darren Turcotte and James Patrick for Larmer and Kypreos. They also traded Amonte and Marchant at the following TDL.

Gartner, Weight, Amonte, Patrick, Turcotte, Marchant over ~18 months. That’s a lot of turnover. That’s Panarin, Trochek, Kakko, Chytil, Trouba, Lindgren.

Not looking at anything that happened prior to the 91-92 resident Trophy, like acquiring Mess or signing Graves.

President’s Trophy in 91-92.
Missed playoffs in 92-93.
Traded six significant players.
Stanley Cup in ‘94.

They traded out young players for vets to round out the team. Our team is built on vets now and lack young talent to trade to fill needs. That's the biggest distinction that jumps right out. And all those teams had a leadership core in place lead by messier, we are literally trying to run the current captain out of here and the rest of the "leadership" is under attack for their lack of leadership. I do not see the parallels bc the core of the two teams is completely different. One had stability to build around and a galvanizing leader, the other is aimless and the captain is in a lame duck season after the team tried to dump him a couple months ago.

 

[bleedblue94]

Anson Carter on the TNT pregame just talked about how spoiled players are when they play for the Rangers.

#Country club vibes confirmed.

And let's compound it all by handing out ntc's and nmc's like candy!

 

[RoastBeeph]

crypto is not a good thing

Bitcoin just went to $103k per coin lol.

 

[bleedblue94]

So there is one indisputable thing that is happening within the walls of nyr, and that is a power struggle of the players vs management. The way the past two weeks have played out there is not a space for these players and this management to continue to coexist with any continuity moving forward. I think the reason nothing has happened is this is a time for calculation. You can can your gm that Dolan loves and that Dolan's boy sather groomed or you can let him gut the roster, but in doing so how far will he have to go? He wants to do X, but once X is done how many of the remaining go into checkout and just ride the motions as they pour about their buddies being gone? I am 100 percent looking at Adam Fox without any question and the fact he has no trade protection yet. If Drury wins this battle to retain control then what's the carnage and what does he want to have to deal with in the aftermath? The timing of all of this with the timelines of fox's contract and protections might be something fascinating to track if Drury wins out and starts shredding his roster.

 

[RangerBoy]

Anson Carter on the TNT pregame just talked about how spoiled players are when they play for the Rangers.

#Country club vibes confirmed.

The TNT studio guys were interviewing Adrian Kempe before Stars-Kings. Jackie Redmond interviewed Jake Oettinger in the previous segment. Oettinger will have a special mask painted for the 4 Nations. He mentioned Lundqivist's Rangers mask with 9/11 on it. Anson Carter and Henrik were discussing Henrik's masks. I was doing something else at the time and the topic became the Rangers treating their players very well. Carter played for a million teams but his short Rangers experience was the best experience because the players are treated too good. I think the Rangers paid for Lundqvist's masks being painted by Henrik's artist.

 

[McRanger92]

If the theory that guys like Brooks is putting out there that there's a revolt against Drury was making hockey moves then they should punish them and I'll take worse results. Because that is players purposely playing poorly to stick it to Drury.



I have thought about that quite a bit but that team had to trade for defensive help.

So do we. And we have a core player with his feelings hurt from the summer. Something has to give with Jacob Garciaparra

 

[eco's bones]

Miller didn't make anything. Kreider Trocheck made USA

Okay. The list I was looking at yesterday afternoon had Caufield, Robertson and Thompson and not Miller, Kreider and Trocheck.

Also had Carlson, McCabe and Woll and not Faber, Hanifin and Oettinger.

But anyway it wasn't the correct list and looking at it now I absolutely could see Miller over someone like Nelson (sorry Islanders) and two of Caufield, Robertson and Thompson being better than Trocheck, Kreider. The defense and goalie addition though of Hanifin, Faber and Oettinger improve the team quite a lot.

Not that I care which team wins. I don't. Not that I'm sure I'll be watching it all either. Maybe some of it.

 

[MrAlmost]

Trocheck and Kreider will likely be on the same line, the 4th - possibly with Brady Tkachuk

#Foreshadowing

 

[leetch99]

I think Drury has his hands tied until the deadline. Hard to move big cap pieces that all have multiple years.

Plus, depending on injuries to top teams, or a team like. Buff/ott/det who could be desperate you might actually get a better return.

Yup....he has to keep the long term of the club in mind in these deals . I still want to finish last next season for Gavin Mckenna .

 

[DevilDog99]

Okay. The list I was looking at yesterday afternoon had Caufield, Robertson and Thompson and not Miller, Kreider and Trocheck.

Also had Carlson, McCabe and Woll and not Faber, Hanifin and Oettinger.

But anyway it wasn't the correct list and looking at it now I absolutely could see Miller over someone like Nelson (sorry Islanders) and two of Caufield, Robertson and Thompson being better than Trocheck, Kreider. The defense and goalie addition though of Hanifin, Faber and Oettinger improve the team quite a lot.

Not that I care which team wins. I don't. Not that I'm sure I'll be watching it all either. Maybe some of it.

Miller would be a mistake for ANY team to take

 

[RangerBoy]

The Sabres are a train wreck. Is there a deal to be made? The Sabres blew a 4-0 lead at home a few nights ago against the Avs who are having their issues. Last week Jeff Marek mentioned the Sabres are looking to move players and brought up Owen Power. If the Rangers look to move Adam Fox before his NMC starts in July, Buffalo would an interesting team because they have so much young talent. Buffalo signed all of their young players to big extensions and some of them have struggled. Power would a player for the Rangers to target. A Fox for Power plus deal. The Sabres know they have to give to get.

The Rangers need to build the next core group. Power would be a centerpiece on D with Braden Schneider. The entire D group needs to be changed. The Rangers aren't winning with this group. Miller needs to go. Trouba has checked out. Lindgren is another small D. The Rangers aren't getting a 1st round pick for him alone. They would need to take back a bad contract like Ryan Johanssen or package Lindgren with another player which is what the Caps did with Orlov and Hathaway to Boston for a 1st rounder and they swapped the pick to Toronto for Sandin.

I remember Sam and Joe were talking to the Avs GM Chris MacFarland when the Rangers were in Colorado last season. MacFarland likes Lindgren and he is a "throwback" to the old NHL. The Avs need a D. The Avs have the Rangers 2nd round pick this June from a trade with Utah. Nemeth trade. I wouldn't mind getting the Rangers pick back for Lindgren especially if the Rangers are a borderline playoff team. The Rangers have another bad week and the teams in the east will pass them in the standings.

Emily Kaplan reported Rangers management believes the Rangers record was deceiving even before losing 6 games out of 7 games. Chris Drury knows the issues.

I like Dylan Cozens. He was so good a couple of years ago. Buffalo gave him a big contract. He has not produced since then. Jack Quinn has fallen off the map. I like JJ Peterka. I like Zach Benson.

 

[McRanger92]

The Sabres are a train wreck. Is there a deal to be made? The Sabres blew a 4-0 lead at home a few nights ago against the Avs who are having their issues. Last week Jeff Marek mentioned the Sabres are looking to move players and brought up Owen Power. If the Rangers look to move Adam Fox before his NMC starts in July, Buffalo would an interesting team because they have so much young talent. Buffalo signed all of their young players to big extensions and some of them have struggled. Power would a player for the Rangers to target. A Fox for Power plus deal. The Sabres know they have to give to get.

The Rangers need to build the next core group. Power would be a centerpiece on D with Braden Schneider. The entire D group needs to be changed. The Rangers aren't winning with this group. Miller needs to go. Trouba has checked out. Lindgren is another small D. The Rangers aren't getting a 1st round pick for him alone. They would need to take back a bad contract like Ryan Johanssen or package Lindgren with another player which is what the Caps did with Orlov and Hathaway to Boston for a 1st rounder and they swapped the pick to Toronto for Sandin.

I remember Sam and Joe were talking to the Avs GM Chris MacFarland when the Rangers were in Colorado last season. MacFarland likes Lindgren and he is a "throwback" to the old NHL. The Avs need a D. The Avs have the Rangers 2nd round pick this June from a trade with Utah. Nemeth trade. I wouldn't mind getting the Rangers pick back for Lindgren especially if the Rangers are a borderline playoff team. The Rangers have another bad week and the teams in the east will pass them in the standings.

Emily Kaplan reported Rangers management believes the Rangers record was deceiving even before losing 6 games out of 7 games. Chris Drury knows the issues.

I like Dylan Cozens. He was so good a couple of years ago. Buffalo gave him a big contract. He has not produced since then. Jack Quinn has fallen off the map. I like JJ Peterka. I like Zach Benson.

Not sure why we are trading Fox instead of just changing the defense around him. Especially for a guy like Power who can't defend.

Im all for trading Lindgren, Miller, Jones and Trouba for upgrades.

 

[bhamill]

Lakeside was a great bar with a great juke box in the early-mid 2000s. RIP

Lakeside was my buddy Eric Roscoe Ambel’s bar, hence the great jukebox. Was a great spot, an institution, Jesse Malin’s Niagara is closest to it in spirit now I guess... Roscoe was in the Blackhearts (Joan Jett), the Del-Lords, Steve Earl’s band and loads of others. Still does a solo thing and plays guitar with Sarah Borges.

 

[bhamill]

Oddly enough, in my neighborhood here in Nashville, there is not only a Lakeside Lounge, but also a Duke's (the NY one was on C between 8th and 9th) and a Mickey's (which was on C between 11th and 12th).

EDIT: AND the Duke's here in Nashvile is owned by a bartender who used to work at Ace (6th between A&B).

I had fun in Nashville. Robert’s, The 5 Spot, Basement. You ever hit Santa’s Pub? Hahahaha.

If I was 25 years younger, I'd be 8.

I'd have no money and the Rangers would still suck.

Hahahaha. I’d be 37. And yeah.

 

[Fitzy]

Fox should stay. You can't rebuild the whole damn team. So many problems on defense let's not try to create another.

Even if he never has another Norris finalist season 9.5 million is perfectly reasonable for what he does. Trouba and Lindgren are the obvious departures, and that's a solid start.

But a retool really doesn't count unless you're moving on from at least 2 of our 4 high paid veteran forwards. Mika is the obvious one we'd lose first, but he's also one of trhe hardest to get rid of. Trochcek does a heck of a lot for his salary hit, that's a tough sell. Kreider is a franchise legend.

Blowing up the defense is an easy proposition. Making substantial changes at forward is hard, and for every internal forward like Kakko or Cuylle NYR promote, someone needs to fill their previous role.

Panarin has just the one season after this so maybe they just move one forward this offseason/season and make a decision on Bread next year.

 

[Kocur Dill]

FWIW getting 3 pairs of defense that work well is the best idea. Our 3 best D right now are Fox, Schneider and Jones. Sticking Fox with Schneider kind of means that one pair is going one problem and the other pair is going to have two problems.

Really Miller can play better. Lindgren is best with Fox. Trouba was best with Miller but if Miller is going to play like shit then that f***s that all up.

Also though some of our forwards haven't been helping out enough either and Mika for one has been atrocious.

Im looking at it leas from a short term issue to a long term fix.

Turning over half the roster in season was a pre-cap luxury, so we gotta make pragmatic moves where we can and see if it shakes out. We know Miller and Trouba can work together. We dont know what Schneider and Fox can do together. May e he is a perfect partner and they are and anchor pair for then next 8 years? Id rather find out in a down year that is full of question marks than a grear year when tinkering isnt ideal.

If it works, great. Im not looking to tank. But for the bigger picture, i think you gotta start shuffling your hand to anticipate moves your gonna make in the near future. At some point Drury is gonna have to make decisions about the next core going forward.

The guys with one foot out the door are pretty obvious. At the least see what works with what we alreadt have so he can target players that fit instead of reluctantly taking whatever is offered just to off load for the sake of off loading. That just creates new mismatched part's. Ex: 2000-2020 Knicks.

 

[McRanger92]

Fox should stay. You can't rebuild the whole damn team. So many problems on defense let's not try to create another.

Even if he never has another Norris finalist season 9.5 million is perfectly reasonable for what he does. Trouba and Lindgren are the obvious departures, and that's a solid start.

But a retool really doesn't count unless you're moving on from at least 2 of our 4 high paid veteran forwards. Mika is the obvious one we'd lose first, but he's also one of trhe hardest to get rid of. Trochcek does a heck of a lot for his salary hit, that's a tough sell. Kreider is a franchise legend.

Blowing up the defense is an easy proposition. Making substantial changes at forward is hard, and for every internal forward like Kakko or Cuylle NYR promote, someone needs to fill their previous role.

Panarin has just the one season after this so maybe they just move one forward this offseason/season and make a decision on Bread next year.

Trading Fox is cutting off your nose to spite your face. The Rangers should be building around Fox and Lafreniere moving forward, and putting them and the rest of the young core in positions to be successful.

Playing Fox, already not the best athlete, with Lindgren who is undersized, unathletic and lacks strength or puck moving ability, has been a disaster. Keeping PP1 intact this year and not adjusting to have Lafreniere (and Chytil, and Cuylle) on the top unit, has also been a disaster.

Fox and Lafreniere are both signed through 2029. Can we start taking seriously that they are more important core pieces than the veterans? That's what Id like to see. Get Laf on the PP and get Fox a real partner.

 

[bernmeister]

I’m old but not as old as a lot of you old f***s. I feel good about that.

I also miss 2000s LES.

it's not how old you are, its how old you feel.
Peter F said it this way:


now, young whippersnapper, let's see you top that!

Bitcoin just went to $103k per coin lol.

Speculative profits, isolated, are not better for society than stable growth based on fundamentals and accountability.
Blockchain bullshit can't be hacked, until it is!
And again, no effing accountability.
At least governments, operating in the open under public scrutiny, can be replaced.
All doing any crypto needs be aware of the risk.

Anyone interested in the international monetary system of the future, where quantitative concentration (how much money there is, where it is, who has it) is subordinated to the true value of money (the net of how well it is used)?
For those replying yes, $30 can buy you a single spaced 28 pg primer on the subject, at my primary website: www.bernmeister.com

 

[Machinehead]

We were fine against the Canes, but as I've said before, the Canes are also a gimmick team that's not beating anyone real. When they got to the same spot we did in 2023, they were swept by Florida.

I also think it's fair to say it was pretty clear where that series was going before Kreider happened.

 

[KevinFinnerty]

The Sabres are a train wreck. Is there a deal to be made? The Sabres blew a 4-0 lead at home a few nights ago against the Avs who are having their issues. Last week Jeff Marek mentioned the Sabres are looking to move players and brought up Owen Power. If the Rangers look to move Adam Fox before his NMC starts in July, Buffalo would an interesting team because they have so much young talent. Buffalo signed all of their young players to big extensions and some of them have struggled. Power would a player for the Rangers to target. A Fox for Power plus deal. The Sabres know they have to give to get.

The Rangers need to build the next core group. Power would be a centerpiece on D with Braden Schneider. The entire D group needs to be changed. The Rangers aren't winning with this group. Miller needs to go. Trouba has checked out. Lindgren is another small D. The Rangers aren't getting a 1st round pick for him alone. They would need to take back a bad contract like Ryan Johanssen or package Lindgren with another player which is what the Caps did with Orlov and Hathaway to Boston for a 1st rounder and they swapped the pick to Toronto for Sandin.

I remember Sam and Joe were talking to the Avs GM Chris MacFarland when the Rangers were in Colorado last season. MacFarland likes Lindgren and he is a "throwback" to the old NHL. The Avs need a D. The Avs have the Rangers 2nd round pick this June from a trade with Utah. Nemeth trade. I wouldn't mind getting the Rangers pick back for Lindgren especially if the Rangers are a borderline playoff team. The Rangers have another bad week and the teams in the east will pass them in the standings.

Emily Kaplan reported Rangers management believes the Rangers record was deceiving even before losing 6 games out of 7 games. Chris Drury knows the issues.

I like Dylan Cozens. He was so good a couple of years ago. Buffalo gave him a big contract. He has not produced since then. Jack Quinn has fallen off the map. I like JJ Peterka. I like Zach Benson.

I'm a big Peterka and Cozens fan too, good underrated players.

That Peterka kid scores against us every game we play Buffalo. I don't think Fox is going anywhere because he forced his way here and won a Norris but he regressed a bit also. How about Kreider + Lindgren for Peterka and Cozens? Or Miller and a 1st for Power?

 

[will1066]

Looking forward to another great day in this thread!

 

[bernmeister]

Not sure why we are trading Fox instead of just changing the defense around him. Especially for a guy like Power who can't defend.

Im all for trading Lindgren, Miller, Jones and Trouba for upgrades.

Peeps wrongly talking bout dealing Kreider for return
Kreider relatively, comparatively, not slipping at same rate (aging better than most) and is cap hit sweetheart value, yet stupidly some want him moved for instant gratification, not real profit.

Fox should be moved NOW while his value/return is MAX

Whether or not Power is best return for Fox is a dif ?
If we can get Power at anything we can accept, we should do so.

Fox should stay. You can't rebuild the whole damn team. So many problems on defense let's not try to create another.

Even if he never has another Norris finalist season 9.5 million is perfectly reasonable for what he does. Trouba and Lindgren are the obvious departures, and that's a solid start.

But a retool really doesn't count unless you're moving on from at least 2 of our 4 high paid veteran forwards. Mika is the obvious one we'd lose first, but he's also one of trhe hardest to get rid of. Trochcek does a heck of a lot for his salary hit, that's a tough sell. Kreider is a franchise legend.

Blowing up the defense is an easy proposition. Making substantial changes at forward is hard, and for every internal forward like Kakko or Cuylle NYR promote, someone needs to fill their previous role.

Panarin has just the one season after this so maybe they just move one forward this offseason/season and make a decision on Bread next year.

Hear you and polite disagree.
You move assets when the return is highest. Offsetting vs that in varying degrees is replacement cost for what you gave up.

Fox has been nice, but he is not a be all and end all.
We should shoot for a better version of Fox, enuf of the exceptional IQ, but a whole lot more physical gifts, cause what is there IS only gonna decline, likely fast, = ugly soon

Do what is in best long term interests of the team.
Don't be tethered to indiv players

Trading Fox is cutting off your nose to spite your face. The Rangers should be building around Fox and Lafreniere moving forward, and putting them and the rest of the young core in positions to be successful.

Playing Fox, already not the best athlete, with Lindgren who is undersized, unathletic and lacks strength or puck moving ability, has been a disaster. Keeping PP1 intact this year and not adjusting to have Lafreniere (and Chytil, and Cuylle) on the top unit, has also been a disaster.

Fox and Lafreniere are both signed through 2029. Can we start taking seriously that they are more important core pieces than the veterans? That's what Id like to see. Get Laf on the PP and get Fox a real partner.

Again, no
this approach is arguably lazy
the core needs to be constantly refreshed with quality youth which keeps production up while helping to manage cap
Fox himself is not more core than what he returns

 

[bernmeister]

This stupid idiot should be boycotted for saying give Kakko away to TB for late 1st next year

Lightning Should Make Trade Offer For Rangers’ Kaapo Kakko

Amid a disastrous mid-season collapse, the New York Rangers have specified a list of players available for trade. Those names are veteran Chris Kreider, captain Jacob Trouba, and warrior Ryan Lindgren.

www.yardbarker.com

bite me, you incredibly stupid mofo idiot

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

The Sabres are a train wreck. Is there a deal to be made? The Sabres blew a 4-0 lead at home a few nights ago against the Avs who are having their issues. Last week Jeff Marek mentioned the Sabres are looking to move players and brought up Owen Power. If the Rangers look to move Adam Fox before his NMC starts in July, Buffalo would an interesting team because they have so much young talent. Buffalo signed all of their young players to big extensions and some of them have struggled. Power would a player for the Rangers to target. A Fox for Power plus deal. The Sabres know they have to give to get.

The Rangers need to build the next core group. Power would be a centerpiece on D with Braden Schneider. The entire D group needs to be changed. The Rangers aren't winning with this group. Miller needs to go. Trouba has checked out. Lindgren is another small D. The Rangers aren't getting a 1st round pick for him alone. They would need to take back a bad contract like Ryan Johanssen or package Lindgren with another player which is what the Caps did with Orlov and Hathaway to Boston for a 1st rounder and they swapped the pick to Toronto for Sandin.

I remember Sam and Joe were talking to the Avs GM Chris MacFarland when the Rangers were in Colorado last season. MacFarland likes Lindgren and he is a "throwback" to the old NHL. The Avs need a D. The Avs have the Rangers 2nd round pick this June from a trade with Utah. Nemeth trade. I wouldn't mind getting the Rangers pick back for Lindgren especially if the Rangers are a borderline playoff team. The Rangers have another bad week and the teams in the east will pass them in the standings.

Emily Kaplan reported Rangers management believes the Rangers record was deceiving even before losing 6 games out of 7 games. Chris Drury knows the issues.

I like Dylan Cozens. He was so good a couple of years ago. Buffalo gave him a big contract. He has not produced since then. Jack Quinn has fallen off the map. I like JJ Peterka. I like Zach Benson.

Agree that the D needs an overhaul. Biuld around Schneider and Fox. I would be remiss to move Fox, but as you mentioned you have to give to get. If the deal makes sense longterm to build a new core and works with the cap landscape then I'd be interested. But there would have to be a haul coming back.

Look at Minnesota's start. They got Spurgeon back and his 1.57 expected goals against per hour 5on5 has made a huge impact. Faber has been tremendous. Brodin is your shut down guy. Middleton has bounced back but well see if that sticks. When you have an elite level D and good goaltending you are hard to beat. Score 3 goals and youll win most games.

This is what I was screaming for when Igor came on the scene, but it really doesnt matter whos between the pipes. Focus on the D. The Sabres are one of those young teams that other GMs will try to poach.